Pathfinder Gunslinger, Fighter and Paladin build

[MrImperator]

Hello, I am making a new character and I basically wanted to make a gun wielding paladin with the Oath of Vengeance archetype.

My plan so far is to go:
LVL 1: Gunslinger/Mysterious Stranger archetype (to get grit to charisma)
Next 3 levels: Fighter/Trench fighter archetype (to get dex to damage on one type of firearm)
Rest: Paladin.

With this build I can get Charisma and Dex to damage along with multiple Smite Evil through a high charisma (trading 2 lay on hands for a smite evil through the paladin archetype)

Any suggestions considering build, feats, items, traits etc? I am rather new to pathfinder and would really appreciate it.

I am considering going gnome with alternate racial traits getting all of the different spells available along with 18/18 Dex Char or 18/20 Dex Char 25 point buy. (I am playing Rise of the Runelords btw)

Note for feedback: I do not consider the paladin archetypes: divine hunter or holy gun as good archetypes.

[Geddy2112]

Dipping mysterious stranger is way better than holy gun. Holy gun was a cool idea with some of the worst freaking implementation ever. Divine hunter is an okay dip for some builds, but I agree it is not something you wanna spend all your pally ranks in. Oath of vengeance is a solid choice.

Keep in mind that you can't add your charisma bonus twice to damage from smite/focused aim. Just save your grit when you are going after a smite target...you will do more than enough damage. You might also need your swift to lay on hands yourself or have your bandolier reload your gun. You can pull an 18/18 dex/cha, but I would not dump anything lower to go for an 18/20. An 8/18/12/10/8/18 post racial is doable.

Gnomes make incredibly good pallys and decent gunslingers. If you go gnome, consider a divine bond-mount over binding to your weapon. It will counteract your slow speed and since the mount is medium sized it is dungeon friendly. It also makes for a pretty BAMF concept of rifle cav. If you wanna divine bond your gun, consider the eldritch guardian fighter to get a familiar(it stacks with trench fighter). Venguful hunter, savage warrior, blackjack, and armor master all have some okay boons that replace bravery(you won't need as a pally) for extra class skills, bonus to saves against other things, etc. They all stack with trench fighter so pick whatever one you like.

You probably want a pistol and a longarm, as the pistol can make multiple attacks with rapid reload and alchemical cartridges, and the rifle has range. The reliable and greater reliable enchantment are worth considering, as you don't have quick clear because of mysterious stranger. Gnomes can take a trait called eternal hope, and although you won't need the fear resistance as a pally, being able to re roll a 1 once a day is huge. If you are mounted, consider a lance as a backup just in case your gun jams. Grab a beneficial bandolier, a buckler, and a figurine of wonderous power(slate spider) as well as the standard cloak of resistance, headband/belt of stat, ring protection yadda yadda yadda.

For feats, rapid reload is a must once you get a second attack from either BAB or rapid shot. Point blank shot, rapid shot, precise shot, and deadly aim are the biggies for ranged combat. You might want to consider the greater mercy/ultimate mercy feats if you wanna raise the dead.

You also will probably get better answers posting in the 3.5/PF subforum.

[MrImperator]

Thanks mate :D amazing tips :)

Is it possible for this thread to be moved?

[Drelua]

As a general bit of advice for any Gunslinger, you want a distance weapon. Doubling your range increments means you can make a touch attack at twice the distance. You'll want a Silver Smite Bracelet when you can afford, it boosts your paladin level by 4 for smites, so 1 more use and 4 more damage. A way to avoid provoking is useful; Point-Blank Master is the most effective, but you'll need another fighter level and weapon specialization to qualify for that. There's also Sword and Pistol, which comes with a bit of a feat tax and only works against enemies you threaten, so adjacent if you wear a cestus or a gauntlet. It's not very effective against anything with a longer reach, but the upside is that you don't need the 4th fighter level.

Grace is a great paladin spell for disengaging an enemy or getting into position, and Bless Weapon is another good spell for bypassing damage and auto-confirming crits against evil enemies. You might also want the trait Magical Knack to bump your Paladin caster level, since that's going to be really low and you spell durations may need help. Alternatively, the Tempered Champion archetype trades spells for bonus feats, counting your Paladin levels as Fighter for qualifying and giving you Warpriest's Sacred Weapon damage. The downside is that you'd have to find a deity with guns as their favoured weapon for those abilities to work for you.

Hope some of this helps!

[MrImperator]

Yh it is very useful, I was considering using the far shot spell which extends the range with 10 feet for 1 hour per level. Furthermore, couldn't you achieve the attack of opportunity with snap shot? That was something which I was considering, never heard of yours before tbh :D

[Peat]

The downside is that you'd have to find a deity with guns as their favoured weapon for those abilities to work for you.


Assuming Archives of Nethys is accurate, there isn't one suitable for a Paladin.

[Arutema]

Assuming Archives of Nethys is accurate, there isn't one suitable for a Paladin.

Indeed, there is only one deity with a gun as their favored weapon, and that deity is evil.

There is a PFS boon to worship one of the Iron Gods, using any Technology Guide firearm as her favored weapon, but she is still true neutral and not suitable for paladin worship.

[Drelua]

Yh it is very useful, I was considering using the far shot spell which extends the range with 10 feet for 1 hour per level. Furthermore, couldn't you achieve the attack of opportunity with snap shot? That was something which I was considering, never heard of yours before tbh :D

Snap shot is good, so you can take AoOs. If you're taking combat reflexes, keep in mind that you can load as part of an AoO only if you can reload as a free action. It's even better when you take improved snap shot for longer reach, although greater snap shot isn't really worth it, IMO.

Point blank master or sword and pistol mean you don't provoke for shooting, although I just realized you still provoke for reloading. PBS is harder to qualify for but works better, since S&P only stops enemies you threaten from taking a swing, which usually means adjacent, and you have to be wielding a melee weapon, so either take improved unarmed strike or just wear a cestus. You'll still probably take AoOs, just not as often. The problem is, unless you're against someone that has combat reflexes, it doesn't really matter if you provoke by shooting or by reloading. Once you can afford it, if you have quick draw, it might be worth getting a few spare, non-magic guns that you can draw, fire, and drop.

You also might want to check out Empty Quiver Style and Overwatch Style, both can be pretty good although it's worth noting that the latter is banned for PFS and the former eats up a lot of feats, and I'm noticing with my PFS gunslinger that they do not have feats to spare.

EDIT: Oh wow, I just realized that Deft Shootist is a thing. Never mind all that other stuff about trying not to provoke, that's probably your best bet

[NateLove]

With Gray Paladin from Ultimate Intrigue you could get to lawful neutral as a paladin, but still no God with guns there.

[Footman]

Seems solid to me. If you go the Rest Paladin, there is an Archetype you could like: The Holy Gun:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin/archetypes/paizo-paladin-archetypes/holy-gun/

[Ellrin]

Seems solid to me. If you go the Rest Paladin, there is an Archetype you could like: The Holy Gun:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin/archetypes/paizo-paladin-archetypes/holy-gun/

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[Dr_Dinosaur]

If you want a charismatic gunslinger, I would suggest seeing how your DM interprets Versatile Design. There seem to be two schools of thought regarding the mod:
1. Making a weapon count as part of another weapon group (axes, light blades, firearms, etc) causes class features that call out axes, light blades, firearms, etc as working with them to work with the Versatile Design weapon as well.
2. It does nothing except adding it to your Weapon Training because nothing else specifically mentions "Fighter Weapon Groups" in the feature.

Assuming your DM ascribes to #1, a Halfling Mysterious Stranger 3/Trench Fighter X wielding a Versatile Design Halfling Sling-staff (you'll need EWP) can be incredible. Charisma to Grit, Dex+Str to damage, free action reload at level 1, huge bonuses to hit from Weapon Training and Low Blow, 80 foot range increment, nearly free ammo (on a Gunslinger!), and all those bonus feats after 3rd level freed up from not needing Rapid Reload or anything! You can even take the Focused Weapon AWT to buff up your gunstaff's damage!

Since you're so much less feat-starved than a normal ranged character, you could VMC Paladin if you want some of its class features.

[grarrrg]

Seems solid to me. If you go the Rest Paladin, there is an Archetype you could like: The Holy Gun:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin/archetypes/paizo-paladin-archetypes/holy-gun/

The OP stated at bottom of first post 'no Holy Gun' with good reason.
For the first few levels it is a perfectly fine archetype. Not super awesome, but far from horrible.
The usual thing that kills it is as a good archetype is that your Smite Evil replacement is _strictly_ a Standard Action for one shot.
Once you can (reliably) make multiple attacks in one round it quickly loses steam, especially compared to what Regular Smite Evil could be giving you.

[Footman]

The OP stated at bottom of first post 'no Holy Gun' with good reason.
For the first few levels it is a perfectly fine archetype. Not super awesome, but far from horrible.
The usual thing that kills it is as a good archetype is that your Smite Evil replacement is _strictly_ a Standard Action for one shot.
Once you can (reliably) make multiple attacks in one round it quickly loses steam, especially compared to what Regular Smite Evil could be giving you.

OOps. Overlooked that last Sentance at the bottom. My bad.