Investigator

[yodafett77]

I'm looking for some advice on building an Investigator. I'm not usually a Rogue player, and haven't touched Alchemist either, so this is an entirely new archetype for me. Would welcome any advice/recommendations. Paizo only stuff, no third party.

Looking at a 20 point build, preferably True Neutral/Chaotic Neutral.

[Geddy2112]

Read this guide (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kImj9bhXndsbJGbFURIZBD0hl4rZQ5xyafN-p5PsJ7c/edit?pref=2&pli=1)
to get the basics, and then we can answer specific questions about a build or particular feat/extract/whatever.

[yodafett77]

Ah, thank you! The Search feature was failing me this morning. :(

Much appreciated! :)

[Gallowglass]

I'm looking for some advice on building an Investigator. I'm not usually a Rogue player, and haven't touched Alchemist either, so this is an entirely new archetype for me. Would welcome any advice/recommendations. Paizo only stuff, no third party.

Looking at a 20 point build, preferably True Neutral/Chaotic Neutral.

I love the investigator. I can't believe there isn't a handbook, but a cursory search did not turn one up.

The investigator is great because he fills several roles, either replacing or backing up the primary role provider of the group.

skill monkey -> less skill points than a thief, but as the key attribute is intelligence, you are likely to have as many points to spend as the party thief. Your class skill list includes all the social skills, all the knowledge skills and all the traditional rogue-y skills. Depending on what you do with charisma and dexterity, you are likely to be as good or better at them than the rest of the party.

Plus you have a class feature that lets you add your level or half your level to SEVERAL skills, and with certain archtypes you can expand that list to key social skills or rogue skills off of int to reduce your MAD.

know monkey -> has class features that make the investigator as good or better at "bardic knowledge" than the bard. "The investigator can use inspiration on any Knowledge, Linguistics, or Spellcraft skill checks without expending a use of inspiration, provided he's trained in the skill.", this means if you put a point in these skills, you can roll 1d6 to add to EVERY check you make in addition. EVERY CHECK.

Buffer -> although mostly a self-buffer, with the right talent choice its easy to be able to pass your extracts to the rest of the party. Because it only takes 1 minute to make an extract you are well served to keep some extract slots open at the beginning of the day so you can fill them with needed buffs that pop up later in the day because you are much faster at this than wizards and clerics.

Fighter -> I think there is a talent that lets you use your studied strike and studied target with range weapons if you want to be a range fighter. Not a bad choice for you if you don't want to get involved in melee. Otherwise, you have studied strike that lets you target an enemy and get a good bonus to hit and damage against that target that basically makes you a full BAB, high STR fighter against that ONE enemy. That's your best option if there is one enemy. If you are fighting a LOT of enemies, you have a different attack routine than a normal precision damage dealer. Instead of flanking to get repeated sneak attack, you are going to be moving from target to target. Why? move action to get studied target against foe 1. Attack foe 1 and expend to studied strike for precision damage. foe 1 is now immune to further studied target for 24 hours (unless you spend an inspiration point), so move to the next guy, spend another move action to get studied target and strike on him and keep moving. This is why its worth using a talent to shift to range fighter, it makes it faster and more efficient to sudden strike as many enemies in one combat as possible.

Debuffer -> You are well served with spending money and time to stock up on various poisons. Every hit should be poisoned enhanced to do some debuffing to the enemy targets. If you have a GM who doesn't like poison or will make poison hard to find/harvest/buy, they you should swap out your poison class features for an archtype like Empiricist. No reason to keep a class feature you won't be allowed to use.

Trapsmith -> has trap finder and trap sense, just as good or better at traps than the rogue. Depending on the game, it may be worth it to become a trapmaker and trapsetter.

lastly you have your inspiration pool. This can be hard to have enough of, so its worth take the extra inspiration feat if you need it. You can use this to help any skill check AND to shore up your weak fortitude save. Keep in mind, fortitude is your only weak save but you already get bonuses against poison which is where most fortitude saves happen, so its not like its REALLY a weak save. You will fill compelled to expend it on attack rolls, but I don't recommend it. You are better off saving them for other uses, relying on your studied target for combat ability. 1 point of inspiration lets you get a redo on studied target for a foe which gets you +1/2 level to hit and damage for several rounds vs 2 points of inspiration for +1d6 (basically +3.5) to a single hit with NO damage bonus. That's easy math.

combat role -> You don't have the HP or AC to tank a long fight, even if you can fake the BAB and damage thanks to studied target. You can't rely on flanking to get your precision damage. You are best served either going reach for multiple AoO and battlefield control, spending some talents to go range fighter to be the bow guy or following your obvious purpose as a skirmish fighter, moving from target to target as needed. In combat you WILL be a fighter though, your extracts don't serve you well for sitting back and trying to be a fake caster. You do have some battlefield control uses though, if you want to try that. But you are a poor substitute for a druid or wizard in that role.

OOC role -> primary skill monkey and know monkey and back-up face with some crafting if you have other team members who rely on poison, or by providing alchemical items to the party as needed.

[NightbringerGGZ]

I'm personally a huge fan of the Psychic Detective archetype, as gaining bard-level spell casting with the Psychic list can be a huge boon. Having Color Spray at first level is also a great way to get around the biggest flaw with this class (your combat mechanic being delayed until level 4). If you go with a normal Investigator I almost always recommend a 1 level dip in Swashbuckler (Inspired Blade) for quick access to Fencing Grace.

[Gallowglass]

I'm personally a huge fan of the Psychic Detective archetype, as gaining bard-level spell casting with the Psychic list can be a huge boon. Having Color Spray at first level is also a great way to get around the biggest flaw with this class (your combat mechanic being delayed until level 4). If you go with a normal Investigator I almost always recommend a 1 level dip in Swashbuckler (Inspired Blade) for quick access to Fencing Grace.

That's a really good point. Investigator feels weak at low levels.

lets say you are a human investigator with 18 intelligence

1st level:
craft alchemy +5 (1 skill rank, + 3 class skill, +1 competence)
inspiration pool - 5
extracts per day - 2
bab - 0
rapier, short bow, leather armor

No particular combat skills to speak of other than the ability to add 1d6 to 2 attack rolls each day. Your role at this level is full on skill monkey and know monkey. Granted, you FEEL like a 4th or 5th level character when filling that role because of your bonuses and inspiration pool, but it can be frustrating when that's your only role. So you spend part of your starting gold on half-price alchemical items that you craft yourself (tanglefoot bags, sneezing powder) so you can contribute to a few combats. Prep either enlarge person or blurred movement depending if you want to go offense or defense, then keep the other one open so you can use the 1 minute swap out to get something else off your list during the day as needed. Make knowledge checks to identify weaknesses in enemies and shout them to your collegues. disable device and spellcraft as often as you can.

2nd level
craft alchemy +6
inspiration pool - 5
extracts per day - 3
bab 1
rapier, short bow, leather armor
ADD poison lore, poison resistance

spend any money you made on poisons and crafting more alchemical items. Start your future profession during combat of skirmisher by trying to poison as many different foes as possible to debuff them for your collegues to finish off. Now you can have BOTH enlarge person (or long arm) and blurred movement. Reach and a miss chance while moving are both going to help you while skirmishing.

3rd level
craft alchemy +7
inspiraction pool - 6
extracts per day - 4
bab 2
rapier, shortbow, leather armor
poison lore, poison resist
ADD: a talent, keen recollection, trap sense

more of the same. I would probably spend my talent on quick study which won't be useful to me until next level. If I know I can retrain, I'd grab something else, then pick up quick study next level with studied combat comes on line. Keen recollection is useless because I've already put at least 1 rank in every knowledge skill. Hope I traded it out for a different archtype.

4th level
ADD: studied combat, studied strike 1d6, swift alchemy, 2nd level extracts

HUGE boost here. Now I can keep up with the fighter in melee combat (with proper planning, I have much better extracts, I can apply poison as a move action, I can make alchemical items faster.

Now all your class features are really online and they will only get better from here.

[N. Jolly]

Read this guide (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kImj9bhXndsbJGbFURIZBD0hl4rZQ5xyafN-p5PsJ7c/edit?pref=2&pli=1)
to get the basics, and then we can answer specific questions about a build or particular feat/extract/whatever.

Cool, glad to see people are still using this. As an aside, I do plan on updating this one later for intrigue stuff once it hits Archives of Nethys, which makes organization that much easier.

Also, I really hope you're starting at level 3/4, or that you can use the suggestions I put into the guide for dropping the level you receive class features.


I love the investigator. I can't believe there isn't a handbook, but a cursory search did not turn one up.

B...but I did write one. A guide addendum sure, but to be fair, I wasn't going to go over spells and magic items again in full detail because of how similar they are.

[Gnaeus]

Remember that even if the extracts are self only, they allow you to use spell trigger items. Get a wand of haste (for example) when you can afford it, and even at one charge per battle it will last for several levels and no one will complain about your buffing abilities.

[Septimus]

Sadly, they don't (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1gw#v5748eaic9tmk). Not a very big deal as an correct Investigator can quickly reach DC 20 on UMD by the time wand are cheap enough to purchase.

[Gallowglass]

B...but I did write one. A guide addendum sure, but to be fair, I wasn't going to go over spells and magic items again in full detail because of how similar they are.

I did say "cursory". Meaning I typed "investigator handbook" into the forum search and clicked the magnifying glass. It did not present itself :)

...Now if only I had been an investigator....

[NightbringerGGZ]

B...but I did write one. A guide addendum sure, but to be fair, I wasn't going to go over spells and magic items again in full detail because of how similar they are.

Hmm.... that just seems like a lack of dedication. :smalltongue:

[Florian]

I'm looking for some advice on building an Investigator. I'm not usually a Rogue player, and haven't touched Alchemist either, so this is an entirely new archetype for me. Would welcome any advice/recommendations. Paizo only stuff, no third party.

Looking at a 20 point build, preferably True Neutral/Chaotic Neutral.

N.Jolly´s very good (but lacking behind the release curve) guide has already been linked.

Some questions remain that you will have to answer before you can get any real help:
- Any specific campaign, any specific focus?
- Preffered play style of the group and characters of your fellow players?

[yodafett77]

Holy Lotsa posts, Batman! I was waiting for email notifications and wasn't getting any, so I just popped back and and crap - with I'd looked sooner instead of trusting subscriptions.

We are running Rise of the Runelords - 20 point build, starting at level 1.

I did look at N.Jolly's guide and decided to go with an INT/DEX build, focusing on ranged weapons, so he has a Shortbow and battle Aspergillum as primary weapons.

Ability Scores (post racials and traits)
Str 10
Dex 16
Con 10
Int 18
Wis 12
Cha 10

Race:
Skinwalker (Were-Bat)

Feat:
Point Blank Shot
(Weapon Finesse will probably be my next Feat, building for my Rapier)

Traits:
Reactionary
Accelerated Drinker
Bruising Intellect

Drawback:
Anxious (fits well with his backstory and character)


I still haven't decided on a spell to use, but for 1st level, I was leaning towards Targeted Bomb Admixture.