Level 2 comes fast

[Pope Scarface]

Am I doing this wrong?

300 XP to reach level 2 / 50 XP per goblin = you reach level 2 after fighting 6 goblins?

I'm starting my campaign at level 2, but we're starting in the tavern as the group has come back from their first adventure and are splitting up the loot, so I was trying to figure out how much loot to roll for. Did they really just fight 6 goblins to be level 2?

Or am I missing something?

[Zman]

Am I doing this wrong?

300 XP to reach level 2 / 50 XP per goblin = you reach level 2 after fighting 6 goblins?

I'm starting my campaign at level 2, but we're starting in the tavern as the group has come back from their first adventure and are splitting up the loot, so I was trying to figure out how much loot to roll for. Did they really just fight 6 goblins to be level 2?

Or am I missing something?

If you fight six goblins solo, sure... But if you are a group of four PCs, it'll take 24 goblins instead. You divide encounter XP by the number of PCs.

[AvatarVecna]

It's worth mentioning that, when you do this as a group, you get less XP, because you're a smaller part of the fighting force; six goblins seems like a good encounter for 4 PCs, but that doesn't mean all, or even one, of them will level up; more likely, each of them gets 75 XP, which puts them a quarter of the way to the next level.

Part of the design of 5e is that at 1st level, you suck, and and 2nd level, you suck less; it's only when you reach third level (when second level spells are coming online and when most classes get their first sub-class feature) that you're really getting into things, and the XP river slows down.

[Coffee_Dragon]

The 50 xp per goblin would have to be distributed equally in the party, so only a party of one would have fought six goblins, if you're going strictly by the maths. However, since you're abstracting the whole thing, it could as well have been three trolls and an owlbear. You decide!

[kaoskonfety]

I'd agree it comes quite fast, but as a design choice to get the party out of "one good critical drops you town" I can't REALLY criticize it - it's a bad town to spend time in. But I wouldn't mind if it took more than 1 session to get to level 2.

[Rysto]

If you go back the DMG recommended XP per long rest, the PCs should hit level 2 after the first session or two. The first two levels are basically designed to be tutorial levels to ease the players into the game and their new class.

[Knaight]

I'd agree it comes quite fast, but as a design choice to get the party out of "one good critical drops you town" I can't REALLY criticize it - it's a bad town to spend time in. But I wouldn't mind if it took more than 1 session to get to level 2.

It does if you don't have about four fights per session.

[R.Shackleford]

Level 3 or 4 is supposed to be "level 1" for anyone who has played D&D like... More than once.

[Mr.Moron]

Yeah I was talking to level 3 about it and she seemed really frustrated about that.

[GlenSmash!]

Yeah I was talking to level 3 about it and she seemed really frustrated about that.

:smallamused:

On topic I believe level one is supposed to last one average adventuring day.

[Theodoxus]

This is why I use milestones. 1) no need to track the number of goblins, partial goblins, goblin heads, the occasional goblin foot nor the bucket of goblin stew spilled in the encounter. 2) If I get bored of the group dynamic, I just level them. Now there's new abilities they get to play with and challenge me on. Yay!

[R.Shackleford]

This is why I use milestones. 1) no need to track the number of goblins, partial goblins, goblin heads, the occasional goblin foot nor the bucket of goblin stew spilled in the encounter. 2) If I get bored of the group dynamic, I just level them. Now there's new abilities they get to play with and challenge me on. Yay!

I think experience points are an archaic rule that no game really needs anymore.

Not even videogames (and I'm a huge final fantasy fan).

I'll probabaly never use them again though I see why other people would.

[gatewatcher]

I think experience points are an archaic rule that no game really needs anymore.

Not even videogames (and I'm a huge final fantasy fan).

I'll probabaly never use them again though I see why other people would.

I just finished Tyranny of Dragons, which is written for Milestones, with a group of 5. The first thing all 5 said when we started planning the next campaign was "we miss tracking experience".

I think they enjoyed receiving it for interacting with the world unexpectedly and in ways that no other reward would make sense - example: helping a stable boy who fancied a girl, which was only mentioned as a bit of backstory. They made a song and everything...

Now, to be fair, the milestone/level progression in Tyranny is wasteful/broken/silly; you make lvl 3-4 in about 5 in game hours. Characters were making 2-3 levels per in game day and literally for as little as walking down a hill. Level 14 is made 100% by one, short NPC conversation with nothing at stake and no risk. But they were complaining well before we reached those points when I said it would take a complete rewrite to make experience work.

[R.Shackleford]

I just finished Tyranny of Dragons, which is written for Milestones, with a group of 5. The first thing all 5 said when we started planning the next campaign was "we miss tracking experience".

I think they enjoyed receiving it for interacting with the world unexpectedly and in ways that no other reward would make sense - example: helping a stable boy who fancied a girl, which was only mentioned as a bit of backstory. They made a song and everything...

Now, to be fair, the milestone/level progression in Tyranny is wasteful/broken/silly; you make lvl 3-4 in about 5 in game hours. Characters were making 2-3 levels per in game day and literally for as little as walking down a hill. Level 14 is made 100% by one, short NPC conversation with nothing at stake and no risk. But they were complaining well before we reached those points when I said it would take a complete rewrite to make experience work.


Yeah, I think when done wrong it will make people miss XP. ToD isn't a good example of using milestones or narrative to level up.

I think that if you made the game more about "using what you have" instead of "just get more stuff" then you would also not really need to gain XP.

Make defeating the boss more about finding weaknesses and using strategies than having a big stick or an istant win button.

[Slipperychicken]

I agree that most of the stories we want to tell in tabletop don't need the kind of huge power-increases that XP and level-ups are designed to give us. That would be a great topic for another thread in the Roleplaying Games section, but is somewhat beside the point of this one.


I think they enjoyed receiving it for interacting with the world unexpectedly and in ways that no other reward would make sense - example: helping a stable boy who fancied a girl, which was only mentioned as a bit of backstory. They made a song and everything...

I like having DM-cookies for this, like fate points or inspiration. Like if you do something the DM really likes, then you get to reroll a die later on. It's not going to permanently set you ahead of the power curve, but it's a small way to reward good RP stuff.

[DracoKnight]

I like having DM-cookies for this, like fate points or inspiration. Like if you do something the DM really likes, then you get to reroll a die later on. It's not going to permanently set you ahead of the power curve, but it's a small way to reward good RP stuff.

The inspiration mechanic is one of my favorites as a DM. :smallsmile: