Divination wizard build check

[Sillybird99]

Got a new character concept and I'm curious to see what you all think about his survivability, usefullness, and his spells.

Chance is a human divination wizard. His mother and twin brother died during childbirth and he was given the name chance. He cheats at games of luck and skill using magic, and was beaten/run out of town after being caught. He met the adventuring party on the road.

Wizard/ diviner 2

8 str
14 dex
14 con
16 int
10 wis
12 cha

Feat: lucky

EDITED SPELLS:


Cantrips: minor illusion, shocking grasp, mage hand.

Spells: mage armor, find familiar, detect magic, shield, magic missile, thunderwave, charm person, grease.

Mostly a utility caster with several rituals, using light crossbow in combat for now unless things get hairy.3 person party, me, a paladin, and another fighter type I think.

What do you guys think about his ability to stay alive and contribute meaningfully to the party? We are running Curse of Strahd.
I like the idea of this character, just wanna make sure he will go far in this campaign.

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

You'll be fine assuming there's a decent mix of classes represented in the rest of the party. I see no glaring flaws with your PC.

[Oramac]

Overall, I think you have a good start. Couple things though.

I might pick up a ranged damage cantrip instead of Shocking Grasp, and there's precious few uses for your Portent feature in your current spell list.

Were I playing the character (love the concept!), I'd pick up Hold Person ASAP, and maybe a few other Save-or-Suck type spells, then hope for two low rolls on your Portent dice.

Why? Well, for those save or suck spells.

"I cast Hold Person on Big Bad Guy. He rolled a 2 on his save. Enjoy your free crits, Fighter and Paladin. On his next turn, he rolled a 4 on the save"

"I cast Banishment on the Big Bad. He rolled a 5 on the save."

You get the idea.

[Sillybird99]

Overall, I think you have a good start. Couple things though.

I might pick up a ranged damage cantrip instead of Shocking Grasp, and there's precious few uses for your Portent feature in your current spell list.

Were I playing the character (love the concept!), I'd pick up Hold Person ASAP, and maybe a few other Save-or-Suck type spells, then hope for two low rolls on your Portent dice.

Why? Well, for those save or suck spells.

"I cast Hold Person on Big Bad Guy. He rolled a 2 on his save. Enjoy your free crits, Fighter and Paladin. On his next turn, he rolled a 4 on the save"

"I cast Banishment on the Big Bad. He rolled a 5 on the save."

You get the idea.

I get what you are saying, and that is why I made room on the spell list for tashas hideous laughter, which I think is better than hold person (prone and lower spell slot) but I can be convinced otherwise.

I picked shocking grasp to help escape melee when that happens, and I can deliver it at range with my familiar. I will pick up a ranged cantrip at level 4 though if I don't switch the list.

At level 3 I was planning to take detect thoughts( divination) and suggestion unless I am struggling to survive (then I would take misty step).

Do these arguments make practical sense?

[Oramac]

I get what you are saying, and that is why I made room on the spell list for tashas hideous laughter, which I think is better than hold person (prone and lower spell slot) but I can be convinced otherwise.

I picked shocking grasp to help escape melee when that happens, and I can deliver it at range with my familiar. I will pick up a ranged cantrip at level 4 though if I don't switch the list.

At level 3 I was planning to take detect thoughts( divination) and suggestion unless I am struggling to survive (then I would take misty step).

Do these arguments make practical sense?

That all makes sense. No worries. :D

Two reasons I suggest Hold Person:

1) The target does not get a new save when it takes damage. This means you can hold it paralyzed for two full turns if you have 2 low Portent rolls. And,

2) Attacks within 5 feet against a paralyzed creature are automatic critical hits. You're running with a Fighter and Paladin, both of which have some fantastic nova damage potential. Give them auto-crits and you'll (most likely) have a very dead bad guy.

[Sillybird99]

Ok I see what you are saying about hold person. What would you suggest I take instead of tasha's hideous laughter? I don't really want to double up on spell types at the low levels to keep my list versatile and diverse.
3rd level will be tough because there are a bunch of awesome 2nd level spells and I can only pick two until 4th level. Hold person taking one of those slots means no defensive spell unless I dump detect thoughts (not a bad spell, and divination. Don't wanna be a divination caster without divination spells lol).

[eastmabl]

How does your DM handle illusions? If she's stingy about them, I would suggest a cantrip that's not minor illusion - at least for the time being.

[Sillybird99]

How does your DM handle illusions? If she's stingy about them, I would suggest a cantrip that's not minor illusion - at least for the time being.

Idk it's a new dm. Maybe not worth the risk? What's a good replacement? Firebolt or magehand?

[TheProfessor85]

Idk, hold person sounds like a defensive/offensive spell to me. Identify isn't a bad spell to have in your repertoire. It's divination and a good utility.

[Sillybird99]

Idk, hold person sounds like a defensive/offensive spell to me. Identify isn't a bad spell to have in your repertoire. It's divination and a good utility.

I don't like identify because of the component cost and the fact that player can identify a magic item with a short rest. I considered the spell, but couldn't find the gold in my starting budget.

[Oramac]

I can only pick two until 4th level.

That's not entirely accurate. You can pick spells equal to your Int modifier + your level. So at 2nd level with a 16 Int, you can pick 5 spells. So you could pick 5 second level spells. (don't do that)

Anyway. Personally I'd drop Tasha's and Sleep. Sleep is nice, but it very quickly becomes irrelevant as monsters health increases.

But first things first: don't sacrifice your character for optimization. If you believe the character would take a sub-optimal spell, take that spell.

Personally, I'd keep all the same spells you have except those two, and grab Hold Person and Suggestion, to follow the theme you've built.

[uraniumrooster]

That's not entirely accurate. You can pick spells equal to your Int modifier + your level. So at 2nd level with a 16 Int, you can pick 5 spells. So you could pick 5 second level spells. (don't do that)


You still have to learn the spells before you can prepare them, and you only learn two new spells each time you level up and they have to be of a level you can cast. So the max number of 2nd-level spells you can have in your Spellbook at 3rd level (unless the DM awards you some that you can scribe), is still two.

[MrFahrenheit]

One idea: consider going halfling to get the ultimate dice control. While true you won't get maxed int until level 16 (take lucky feat first), portent can help with that.

[Sillybird99]

That's not entirely accurate. You can pick spells equal to your Int modifier + your level. So at 2nd level with a 16 Int, you can pick 5 spells. So you could pick 5 second level spells. (don't do that)

Anyway. Personally I'd drop Tasha's and Sleep. Sleep is nice, but it very quickly becomes irrelevant as monsters health increases.

But first things first: don't sacrifice your character for optimization. If you believe the character would take a sub-optimal spell, take that spell.

Personally, I'd keep all the same spells you have except those two, and grab Hold Person and Suggestion, to follow the theme you've built.

I thought u learned 2 spells per level and could prepare int+ level spells

[Sillybird99]

One idea: consider going halfling to get the ultimate dice control. While true you won't get maxed int until level 16 (take lucky feat first), portent can help with that.

Starting with a 14 int and ending with a 16 Int is not something I really want to do (Campaign not going beyond 10th level). I like the idea of halfling a lot, but I just don't think this is the game for that build, unfortunately.

[Sillybird99]

Anyway. Personally I'd drop Tasha's and Sleep. Sleep is nice, but it very quickly becomes irrelevant as monsters health increases.



What spells would you choose instead (only 1st level available currently)?

[Oramac]

What spells would you choose instead (only 1st level available currently)?

In keeping with the Divination theme, I'd probably grab Comprehend Languages and Identify. You'll lose a little in-combat power, but gain a lot of out-of-combat utility. Plus, they're both Ritual spells.

[Markoff Chainey]

I would take exactly the spells you have chosen!

sleep is an unstoppable beast and useless after level 4, but nobody sane would not choose it at lvl 1.

I think your cantrip choice is perfect (dealing 1-2 points more damage is not as important as staying alive) and if your DM is not a moron, minor illusion rocks, especially for a con artist and card sharp...

Ritual spells can easily be bought after the game started and as you rightly say, identify is almost useless due to the rule that any magic item can be identified on a short rest.

The only 2 candidates that are debateable in my opinion are unseen servant (I love the spell, but maybe you can just buy a scroll quickly and won't use it in the first 1 or 2 levels anyways) and thunderwave. Instead of thunderwave, I would take magic missile for the guaranteed hit and instead of the servant, I would take either charm person or disguise self for some out of combat fun.

Have fun with your wizard!

[VegBru]

OP, your spell selection is going to work out just fine the way it is! If you like it, go with it! Divination is awesome, and I play a divination wizard myself right now – currently lvl 7.

Still, I would like to comment on a few of your choices.

I would be careful about using Shocking Grasp. You have crappy AC and few hitpoints. Getting hit may force your teammates to use resources on you, and end your concentration. Consider using Disengage instead when you are in melee range. The damage output from Shocking Grasp may not be worth the risk of missing. For that reason, I would consider getting Mage Hand instead.

Use your crossbow and good positioning to avoid getting melee in the first place. Then pick Firebolt at level 4 and start using it at level 5, when the damage output exceeds that of your crossbow.

I would pick Mage Armour instead of Unseen Servant. In my opinion it is a must for anyone not wearing armour, and Unseen Servant is probably the weakest spell on your list.

Sleep is, as noted by others, fantastic up to level 4-5.

For later levels, Hold Person has a better effect than Tasha’s, but with more restrictions. With Portent and a few friends that hit hard, HP wins fights (against humanoids, that is).

Suggestion is great when properly applied, and it really seems to fit into your theme!

I always prepare Misty Step, but I don’t use it a lot. Mind, I play with a bigger group so positioning is easier for me. Not getting hit is a big deal – obviously for your hitpoints but also for your concentration.

Best of luck!

[Sillybird99]

Ok after looking at suggestions this is what I'm thinking:

Cantrips: minor illusion, mage hand, friends

I'll use disengage to get out of melee until I get misty step at level 3. Use crossbow until level 4-5 and switch to firebolt

Spells: detect magic, find familiar, comprehend languages, grease (decided some on some bfc and fog cloud is too confusing), charm person (can be used in combat easily as well with a good portent roll), magic missile, and 1 more...

For the last spell I am considering THL sleep, mage armour, or another suggestion that fits the theme.

I can't see myself preparing shield and mage armour when I get second level spells...

CoS has lots of undead so sleep is less attractive combined with its lack of utility later on

THL can be replaced by hold person at level 4, and having two spells of the same type doesn't seem like good spell economy (would only prepare 1 of these).

So help me fill that last slot? :)

[Oramac]

So help me fill that last slot? :)

Looking at your group, both Paladins and Fighters are lacking in AOE, especially Paladins.

Knowing that, I'd grab Thunderwave, then once you get to later levels, grab Shatter instead.

No spoilers, but in Strahd you'll definitely want some AOE.

[Biggstick]

Ok I see what you are saying about hold person. What would you suggest I take instead of tasha's hideous laughter? I don't really want to double up on spell types at the low levels to keep my list versatile and diverse.
3rd level will be tough because there are a bunch of awesome 2nd level spells and I can only pick two until 4th level. Hold person taking one of those slots means no defensive spell unless I dump detect thoughts (not a bad spell, and divination. Don't wanna be a divination caster without divination spells lol).

You don't have to be a divination caster without Divination spells. In fact it'd be more beneficial to you to never pick up a Divination spell with your chosen leveling up choices. Your level 2 feature allows you to put Divination spells into your spellbook for half the cost/time (25 gp and 1 hour per level). Work with your DM as to how you gain these spells and it opens up your spell choices quite a bit.

As for spell list, here are some things that I'd look at and consider.


Cantrips: Mage Hand, Minor Illusion, Chill Touch (if you use Mage Hand often, why not use one that's a little creepier to attack the enemy?), then another offensive cantrip at level 4.

Level 1 must have spells: Find Familiar, Detect Magic, Shield and/or Mage Armor (I'd personally take both)
Level 1 niche rituals: Alarm, Comprehend Languages, Identify, Tenser's Floating Disk, Unseen Servant
Level 1 niche control/damage spells: Magic Missile, Charm Person, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Fog Cloud, Sleep

I wouldn't be looking for your level 1 spells to be your go-to AOE spells; save that for higher level spell slots. Since you have 8 choices at level 2, I'd go with the 4 listed in the Level 1 must have spells. Depending on the game your DM is playing, Comp Languages and/or Alarm could be extremely useful to you as well. I would only choose one of them though. Lastly, for the control/damage spells, I'd go with Magic Missile, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, and Fog Cloud. I know you said before you weren't a fan of Fog Cloud, but being able to control a portion of the battlefield is extremely useful to you.

As for level 2 spells, I'll be echoing what others have said and suggest Hold Person being the first spell you choose once you hit level 3. As for the second spell, I would suggest Shatter. I know most people might suggest you go the control spells that are available to you, but I stand strong in my suggestion of Shatter. Your party is going to be looking to you to provide the aoe damage. When a gang of mooks shows up, you'll be the one they look towards. At levels 3 and 5 you will probably be most rewarded by choosing an AOE damage spell + a control spell. At levels 4 and 6, you can pick up the utility rituals or spells that you otherwise passed over at 3 and 5.

Level 3 must have spells: Hold Person or Blindness/Deafness
Level 3 damage considerations: Flaming Sphere (difficult to use well imo), Scorching Ray (good if your DM doesn't throw hordes at you), Shatter

Obviously there are tons of choices you can make concerning the spells you pick at this level, but as long as you pick up some sort of control spell here you'll be fine.

[Oramac]

I would suggest Shatter. I know most people might suggest you go the control spells that are available to you, but I stand strong in my suggestion of Shatter. Your party is going to be looking to you to provide the aoe damage. When a gang of mooks shows up, you'll be the one they look towards.

I'll second this. Though having played Strahd as a wizard myself, I can say with confidence you will be likely to need more AOE than just Shatter, which I why I suggested Thunderwave.

In any case, AOE is definitely needed.

[Sillybird99]

Ok so I'll take thunderwave I guess. Then for second level spells I will look at misty step, shatter, suggestion, and hold person, blindness/deafness, web, detect thoughts, and scorching ray as contenders.

Hopefully I can find some good scrolls in Barovia lol

[Oramac]

Ok so I'll take thunderwave I guess. Then for second level spells I will look at misty step, shatter, suggestion, and hold person, blindness/deafness, web, detect thoughts, and scorching ray as contenders.

Hopefully I can find some good scrolls in Barovia lol

The other option if you don't want to burn a spell slot on Thunderwave before you get Shatter, you could take Thunderclap/Sword Burst. They're not quite as good, but they are at-will cantrips so you can use them as much as you want without burning spell slots.

EDIT: ultimately, though, it's your character. Don't deny the character's personality in favor of optimization. It's just as fun (or more fun) to play a sub-optimal character with very good personality.

[Sillybird99]

The other option if you don't want to burn a spell slot on Thunderwave before you get Shatter, you could take Thunderclap/Sword Burst. They're not quite as good, but they are at-will cantrips so you can use them as much as you want without burning spell slots.

Unfortunately PHB only :( thunderwave is good, but hopefully I don't have to use it :)

[RulesJD]

1. I would drop Friends, the target knows you cast it on them 1 minute after casting. It's bad.

2. I would drop Sleep, most creatures you fight will be immune to sleep condition.

Otherwise looks good. Definitely pick up Hold Person and Detect Thoughts for level 2 spells. Detect Thoughts is the greatest way of getting information/roughly finding hidden creatures. This is verrrrry useful in CoS.

Hold Person DOES have the limit of only working on Humanoids, but most things in CoS are humanoid.

If your DM lets you, the best spell for a Divination Wizard is Suggestion. But you have to talk with your DM about it ahead of time because you can easily break the game with it.

[Sillybird99]

1. I would drop Friends, the target knows you cast it on them 1 minute after casting. It's bad.

2. I would drop Sleep, most creatures you fight will be immune to sleep condition.

Otherwise looks good. Definitely pick up Hold Person and Detect Thoughts for level 2 spells. Detect Thoughts is the greatest way of getting information/roughly finding hidden creatures. This is verrrrry useful in CoS.

Hold Person DOES have the limit of only working on Humanoids, but most things in CoS are humanoid.

If your DM lets you, the best spell for a Divination Wizard is Suggestion. But you have to talk with your DM about it ahead of time because you can easily break the game with it.

Wow, incredibly helpful post. Glad to hear input based on CoS xp w/o spoilers :)

Wondering which list you are referring to tho, the original or the revision?

[VegBru]

I would strongly suggest taking both Mage Armour and Shield. You will get hit – a lot – if you are going with AC12. Both of these spells will be on your prepared list for the rest of your career, unless you somehow get to use armour (and even then you should still prepare Shield). It is a reaction you can use when you are hit by an attack, and lasting for the rest of the round, making it a 1st level spell that is relevant no matter what happens.

I will be very surprised if you are correct about not preparing Mage Armour and Shield when you get 2nd level spells. Remember that you can only concentrate on one spell at the time, and finding the good non-concentrations spells is important.

I actually liked your first list better than your last. But looking at your last one I would recommend the following (without changing it too much):

Cantrips: Minor Illusion, Mage Hand, Friends (mostly because it fits your theme) and Firebolt at 4th
Level 1: Detect Magic, Find Familiar, Grease (good because not Concentration, but Fog Cloud is a better spell), Charm Person (or Tasha’s), Thunderwave, Magic Missile, Mage Armour and Shield.
Level 2: Hold Person, Shatter, Misty Step, Detect Thoughts.

The debate could go on forever. You will not get every spell you would like - not to mention that you can not prepare them all.

[Oramac]

The debate could go on forever.

This is true. At the end of the day, do what the character would do. Is he afraid of thunderstorms? Maybe he won't take Thunderwave then. He's obsessed with fire? Maybe he takes Fire Bolt sooner.

Etc. Etc.

[Sillybird99]

I would strongly suggest taking both Mage Armour and Shield. You will get hit – a lot – if you are going with AC12. Both of these spells will be on your prepared list for the rest of your career, unless you somehow get to use armour (and even then you should still prepare Shield). It is a reaction you can use when you are hit by an attack, and lasting for the rest of the round, making it a 1st level spell that is relevant no matter what happens.

I will be very surprised if you are correct about not preparing Mage Armour and Shield when you get 2nd level spells. Remember that you can only concentrate on one spell at the time, and finding the good non-concentrations spells is important.

I actually liked your first list better than your last. But looking at your last one I would recommend the following (without changing it too much):

Cantrips: Minor Illusion, Mage Hand, Friends (mostly because it fits your theme) and Firebolt at 4th
Level 1: Detect Magic, Find Familiar, Grease (good because not Concentration, but Fog Cloud is a better spell), Charm Person (or Tasha’s), Thunderwave, Magic Missile, Mage Armour and Shield.
Level 2: Hold Person, Shatter, Misty Step, Detect Thoughts.

The debate could go on forever. You will not get every spell you would like - not to mention that you can not prepare them all.

Hmmm, that does seems solid, although I will dump friends. Never played a wizard before so didn't if the low AC would be a huge problem. I don't like that I might have to cast it multiple times per day if it's a long day, then possibly using shield on top of that. That's most of my spell slots (if not all of them). Staying alive is important though so maybe I'll take it instead of comprehend language.

[RulesJD]

Wow, incredibly helpful post. Glad to hear input based on CoS xp w/o spoilers :)

Wondering which list you are referring to tho, the original or the revision?

List? I'm not sure what you're referring to.

[Sillybird99]

List? I'm not sure what you're referring to.

Spell list. The one in OP or in the thread. Doesn't matter much. I edited the original list in OP now.