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View Full Version : Rules Q&A Sneak/?Suprise? Attack Vs. Doge & Robilar's Gambit/Karmic Strike & Elusive Target



theboss
2016-05-13, 02:58 AM
Hello there,
In last night session I DM'ed (as a part of letting our own DM have a little rest), and something that happened made me a little confuse.
They were in the Boss Fight, and one of the fighters (who have dodge and Robilar's Gambit feats) did a full round action to get close to the PC who he chose as his dodge bonus and adopted the robilar's gambit stance.
Now, this PC is Horizon Walker level 6 (and 9 more levels multiclass), so Horizon Walker at level 6 can choose the Dimension Door spell like ability and took the feat Quicken Spell Like Ability which now lets him use Dimension Door as a swift action.
When it was his turn, he used Dimension Door to get behind the fighter and he used his full round action to get 4 attacks.
Now my questions:
1. Is this counts as sneak attack? And if so, Does the sneak attack applies only on the first attack or all of them?
2. The fighter chose him as his dodge bonus (Dodge) which now grants him immunity to Power Attack only from the Horizon Walker (Elusive Target), Now, if he teleported behind him does it means he will get Power Attack from him? Because of the sneak attack (if it is - see question number 1).
3. Is Robilar's Gambit work against sneak attacks? (Again, only if answer 1 is positive )
4. Does this build lookes Legit? (1 Ranger, 5 Hexblade, 6 Horizon walker, 2 Paladin of Tyranny, 2 Fighter)

Thanks in Advance!

Necrov
2016-05-13, 03:06 AM
1. Is this counts as sneak attack? And if so, Does the sneak attack applies only on the first attack or all of them?
2. The fighter chose him as his dodge bonus (Dodge) which now grants him immunity to Power Attack only from the Horizon Walker (Elusive Target), Now, if he teleported behind him does it means he will get Power Attack from him? Because of the sneak attack (if it is - see question number 1).
3. Is Robilar's Gambit work against sneak attacks? (Again, only if answer 1 is positive )
4. Does this build lookes Legit? (1 Ranger, 5 Hexblade, 6 Horizon walker, 2 Paladin of Tyranny, 2 Fighter)

Thanks in Advance!

1. Unless he has become flanked by the Horizon Walker's tactical placement, or has otherwise in some way become flatfooted, the Horizon Walker does not get sneak attacks. Though for reference, all of his attacks would be sneak attacks provided he's acting in the surprise round, the first round of combat (so long as he goes before the fighter) or if the fighter is for any reason flat footed.
2. Nothing about the fighter's immunity to the Horizon Walker's power attack has changed.
3. Not important, see above.
4. I think we'd need more details to judge.

Troacctid
2016-05-13, 03:16 AM
1. Is this counts as sneak attack? And if so, Does the sneak attack applies only on the first attack or all of them?
If you're using the combat facing (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/combatFacing.htm) variant rule (and most games don't), then yes. Otherwise no.


2. The fighter chose him as his dodge bonus (Dodge) which now grants him immunity to Power Attack only from the Horizon Walker (Elusive Target), Now, if he teleported behind him does it means he will get Power Attack from him? Because of the sneak attack (if it is - see question number 1).
No. Under the facing rules (assuming they're in play), attacking from the target's rear area gives you a +4 bonus on the attack roll, but it does not deny the target their Dexterity bonus to AC or make them flat-footed. Even if it did, Elusive Target wouldn't stop applying.


3. Is Robilar's Gambit work against sneak attacks? (Again, only if answer 1 is positive )
Yes.


4. Does this build lookes Legit? (1 Ranger, 5 Hexblade, 6 Horizon walker, 2 Paladin of Tyranny, 2 Fighter)
You mean is it good? Well, it has Hexblade levels, and five of them, even, so... no. Generally, as a rule of thumb, before you ask whether a build is good, it's a good idea to check whether it has levels in any of the base classes from Complete Warrior. If it does, it's probably not good.

theboss
2016-05-13, 03:52 AM
1. Unless he has become flanked by the Horizon Walker's tactical placement, or has otherwise in some way become flatfooted, the Horizon Walker does not get sneak attacks. Though for reference, all of his attacks would be sneak attacks provided he's acting in the surprise round, the first round of combat (so long as he goes before the fighter) or if the fighter is for any reason flat footed.
2. Nothing about the fighter's immunity to the Horizon Walker's power attack has changed.
3. Not important, see above.
4. I think we'd need more details to judge.

1. He cannot be flat footed because elusive target negate that if one of the flankers is the one you chose as your dodge bonus. Further, now he wasnt flat footed. And it wasnt the surprise round nor he was before the fighter in the first round. It happened about 5 rounds after the fight began.
2. Can you give me an explaintion for that? I think as you are, but i need a living proof for that player.
//
4. Nevermind, it is not important.

nedz
2016-05-13, 04:00 AM
After using this spell, you can’t take any other actions until your next turn.
Unless he has some way of getting around this restriction, e.g. Sun School, then he can't attack at all. This probably renders all your other questions moot.

theboss
2016-05-13, 04:03 AM
Unless he has some way of getting around this restriction, e.g. Sun School, then he can't attack at all. This probably renders all your other questions moot.

He uses this spell as Spell like Ability and he took Quicken Spell Like Ability, does this count?

Troacctid
2016-05-13, 04:08 AM
1. He cannot be flat footed because elusive target negate that if one of the flankers is the one you chose as your dodge bonus.
Elusive Target doesn't do that.


2. Can you give me an explaintion for that? I think as you are, but i need a living proof for that player.
Sure. The Power Attack feat does not deal additional damage here because of the Negate Power Attack maneuver, which states:

Negate Power Attack: To use this maneuver, you must designate a specific foe to be affected by your Dodge feat. If that foe uses the Power Attack feat against you, the foe gains no bonus on the damage roll but still takes the corresponding penalty on the attack roll.
Because I have the Elusive Target feat and I chose you as the target of my Dodge feat, you do not deal additional damage to me with your Power Attack feat, but you still take the normal penalty.


He uses this spell as Spell like Ability and he took Quicken Spell Like Ability, does this count?
It does not.

Necrov
2016-05-13, 04:11 AM
1. He cannot be flat footed because elusive target negate that if one of the flankers is the one you chose as your dodge bonus. Further, now he wasnt flat footed. And it wasnt the surprise round nor he was before the fighter in the first round. It happened about 5 rounds after the fight began.
2. Can you give me an explaintion for that? I think as you are, but i need a living proof for that player.
//
4. Nevermind, it is not important.

Troacctid has explained before I can. He is correct.

theboss
2016-05-13, 04:20 AM
Thanks for the comments! You helped me alot...

Ger. Bessa
2016-05-13, 12:02 PM
To the OP, look at the Teflammar shadowlord prestige class (Unaprochable East) and Crinti Shadow Marauder (Shining South) who get automatic full attack at the end of every teleportation (including Dimension Door).

Otherwise, cool class + feat combo. It allows you to end your turn as a swift action. (Basically whenever and wherever you want ;)

DarkSoul
2016-05-13, 02:18 PM
Hello there,
In last night session I DM'ed (as a part of letting our own DM have a little rest), and something that happened made me a little confuse.
They were in the Boss Fight, and one of the fighters (who have dodge and Robilar's Gambit feats) did a full round action to get close to the PC who he chose as his dodge bonus and adopted the robilar's gambit stance.
Now, this PC is Horizon Walker level 6 (and 9 more levels multiclass), so Horizon Walker at level 6 can choose the Dimension Door spell like ability and took the feat Quicken Spell Like Ability which now lets him use Dimension Door as a swift action.
When it was his turn, he used Dimension Door to get behind the fighter and he used his full round action to get 4 attacks.
Now my questions:
1. Is this counts as sneak attack? And if so, Does the sneak attack applies only on the first attack or all of them?
2. The fighter chose him as his dodge bonus (Dodge) which now grants him immunity to Power Attack only from the Horizon Walker (Elusive Target), Now, if he teleported behind him does it means he will get Power Attack from him? Because of the sneak attack (if it is - see question number 1).
3. Is Robilar's Gambit work against sneak attacks? (Again, only if answer 1 is positive )
4. Does this build lookes Legit? (1 Ranger, 5 Hexblade, 6 Horizon walker, 2 Paladin of Tyranny, 2 Fighter)

Thanks in Advance!

As has already been stated, using dimension door ends your turn, so him moving behind the fighter denied him his attacks unless he has some ability specifically allowing him to continue acting.

1: Maybe. If the character has sneak attack somehow and his dimension door put him in a flanking position, then all attacks he makes while flanking will be sneak attacks, not just the first one.
2: Under normal circumstances, no. The standard rules don't have any facing rules, so being behind someone is no different than being in front of them. The aforementioned variant rule could change that, however. Elusive Target will still deny the bonus damage from power attack even if the power attacker is swinging from behind.
3: Yes, Robilar's Gambit works against any melee attack, assuming you've activated it.
4: Others have commented on the build already, so I won't.