Splat books we (ok I) could use.

[MrFahrenheit]

I don't want his to turn into a "what book would you like to see next?" thread, but it probably will. That being said, I would really like to see two or three splat books come out, and I believe the argument for each goes beyond being a mark for the products mentioned:

1. MM2- I've mentioned this multiple times on different threads, and the reasoning here is the same: it's not "I want gem dragons and beholderkin." It's "bounded accuracy is great, but I'd like to see some higher CR mooks so I don't need to mob my level 13 party with a horde of CR 7s and keep track of that in combat." Past CR 8 or so, and certainly past CR 11, the few monsters which remain are meant to be bosses. Playing them as mooks cheapens the experience ("ANOTHER adult white dragon? Groan...")

2. Manual of the Planes/Deities & Demigods- I really feel that these two could potentially be combined into one, and I'd be satisfied (though not necessarily happy) if all WOTC did was take the 3/3.5 editions of the books and update the non-fluff bits with 5e mechanics. Planar points of interest, deity abodes and temple hierarchies are fun to plan out here or there, but having something readily available, like the MM2 with monsters, is super helpful.

As a side note, I considered including the Draconomicon, but that would definitely be fanboy-ish, as I can't really see a good reason to shill out as much money as something like that would cost. I hope WOTC does eventually get to it, but they could probably release that as a UA for pure fluff (and maybe throw in classes that get dragon hunter themed sub classes), as the stats for chromatic/metallic dragons would already be covered in the MM. Any other dragon types would be gravy at that point.

[hymer]

What sort of thread would you like it to be?

I agree with you on a need for more monsters. There are third party monster collections out there, but there ought to be many more monsters. And NPCs for that matter. We have two levels of wizard, for instance, nowhere near enough. There's a pretty wide gap between Guards (who'd get murdered by goblins, ugh) and Veterans or Knights. I'd like someone in between, and some real elites, too.
And we need more Fey, and variations on the basic elementals (higher and lower CRs), and a lot more beasts of CR 4 and above.

Reskinning stats can go a long way, of course. Still, I'd be only to happy to pay the exorbitant price they'll no doubt demand for MM2.

[MrFahrenheit]

What sort of thread would you like it to be?

I agree with you on a need for more monsters. There are third party monster collections out there, but there ought to be many more monsters. And NPCs for that matter. We have two levels of wizard, for instance, nowhere near enough. There's a pretty wide gap between Guards (who'd get murdered by goblins, ugh) and Veterans or Knights. I'd like someone in between, and some real elites, too.
And we need more Fey, and variations on the basic elementals (higher and lower CRs), and a lot more beasts of CR 4 and above.

Reskinning stats can go a long way, of course. Still, I'd be only to happy to pay the exorbitant price they'll no doubt demand for MM2.

To answer your question, I don't mind if it turns into THAT kind of thread, I just want the reasoning to be more than "I want the Book of Aberrations because I think mind flayers are cool." I'd like to see reasoning, like you've laid out, that can give some real mechanical boost to the game, and more importantly, save time for DMs.

I do agree with all of your above points. Would like to see some more traps and poisons and the like, too, for mid/high level characters.

To a certain extent, the fact that there's a dearth of mid/high CR (say 11-16) variety is reflected in the XP it takes at that point in the game to level up. Goes from some pretty wide gaps to approximately 20,000 each for a little while. I feel like WOTC said at that point "well, 3-10 is the meat of d&d. Then let's get them to 20 ASAP."

I don't begrudge them this, but would like more options to play with that don't involve hordes of lower CRs. And while multi monster battles is fine (and I advocate using such in combat encounters, as higher level parties can slaughter solos) having to micromanage 16xCR 2, 4xCR 5, 3x CR 7, 2x CR 10 and 1xCR 14 gets you bogged down.

[Shining Wrath]

I find there are entire categories of monsters which are sadly lacking.

I want more fey.
I want more constructs.
I want more celestials.
I actually wrote up a homebrew, "Beasts of Unusual Size", and published it on DMS Guild because there are so many gaps in the available beasts - not only few of high CR, but gaps like "There's no small feline" and a stunning lack of turtles. And, yes, the CR 6 Great Bear has my table's Moon Druid looking forward to level 18.
Seriously, only 6 dinosaurs? Really?

[EvilestWeevil]

Well they are talking about a kind of expansion on the current content, and with that I would suspect it will bring more monsters as well. As far as splat books, that is the exact opposite of what I want in 5e. Look at Pathfinder, it has so many books that are outright useless to some DM's and outright gold to others. I like WotC idea of an expansion, that emphasizes additions to an existing system, not a rewrite or additional rules for the sake of the new content. Splat books are accomplished through the DMsguild site better than any book could offer.

[MrFahrenheit]

Well they are talking about a kind of expansion on the current content, and with that I would suspect it will bring more monsters as well. As far as splat books, that is the exact opposite of what I want in 5e. Look at Pathfinder, it has so many books that are outright useless to some DM's and outright gold to others. I like WotC idea of an expansion, that emphasizes additions to an existing system, not a rewrite or additional rules for the sake of the new content. Splat books are accomplished through the DMsguild site better than any book could offer.

I think we're after the same thing here, though if there's enough monsters for an MM2, I'd much rather have it in book form. But anything that's nearly 100% fluff should remain in UA. I really like what they did with EE, though, keeping the campaign to the book, but providing the player's companion free online.

Would you be able to link the discussion regarding expansions that you referenced?

[Regitnui]

I can honestly see enough material for 3 books;

PHB2: Setting specific races (finalized UAs), psionic mechanics and classes, and the strange but unique classes like an incarnum totemist.

MM2: More monsters. The rest of you've said it better than me.

Manual of Worlds: If there's no Eberron Explorer's Handbook or Etchings of Athas, put the variant settings into one book along with planes and demiplanes (Great Wheel, 4e, Eberron Orbits, Athas Sterility) and write-ups for the more active gods, archdevils and demon lords and gather that together.

[eastmabl]

[QUOTE=MrFahrenheit;20774276]I don't want his to turn into a "what book would you like to see next?" thread, but it probably will. That being said, I would really like to see two or three splat books come out, and I believe the argument for each goes beyond being a mark for the products mentioned:

1. MM2- I've mentioned this multiple times on different threads, and the reasoning here is the same: it's not "I want gem dragons and beholderkin." It's "bounded accuracy is great, but I'd like to see some higher CR mooks so I don't need to mob my level 13 party with a horde of CR 7s and keep track of that in combat." Past CR 8 or so, and certainly past CR 11, the few monsters which remain are meant to be bosses. Playing them as mooks cheapens the experience ("ANOTHER adult white dragon? Groan...")[quote]

Not official, but Kobold Press' "Tome of Beasts" is going to be really good. I think that you're past the point where you can back the Kickstarter (post-funding), but it should be available to the general public soon.

(Actually, the pre-order seems to be up: https://tome-of-beasts-300-new-monsters-for-5th-edition.backerkit.com/hosted_preorders. It's not on the Kobold Press webstore, however).

[EvilestWeevil]

http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/dd-survey-results-summary

Here is the survey results from WotC talking about this expansion and getting a sense of what their customers want.

[MrFahrenheit]

[QUOTE=MrFahrenheit;20774276]I don't want his to turn into a "what book would you like to see next?" thread, but it probably will. That being said, I would really like to see two or three splat books come out, and I believe the argument for each goes beyond being a mark for the products mentioned:

1. MM2- I've mentioned this multiple times on different threads, and the reasoning here is the same: it's not "I want gem dragons and beholderkin." It's "bounded accuracy is great, but I'd like to see some higher CR mooks so I don't need to mob my level 13 party with a horde of CR 7s and keep track of that in combat." Past CR 8 or so, and certainly past CR 11, the few monsters which remain are meant to be bosses. Playing them as mooks cheapens the experience ("ANOTHER adult white dragon? Groan...")[quote]

Not official, but Kobold Press' "Tome of Beasts" is going to be really good. I think that you're past the point where you can back the Kickstarter (post-funding), but it should be available to the general public soon.

(Actually, the pre-order seems to be up: https://tome-of-beasts-300-new-monsters-for-5th-edition.backerkit.com/hosted_preorders. It's not on the Kobold Press webstore, however).

This looks pretty good, but I'd be concerned about balance issues seeing as how it's unofficial. Too concerned to find it worth $50, at least.

[mephnick]

After Fifth Edition Foes, I'm not looking forward to any 3rd party Monster Manuals. Maybe KP can do a better job though.

At least they might not give every monster in the book an auto-grapple rider.

[Fwiffo86]

1. MM2- I've mentioned this multiple times on different threads, and the reasoning here is the same: it's not "I want gem dragons and beholderkin." It's "bounded accuracy is great, but I'd like to see some higher CR mooks so I don't need to mob my level 13 party with a horde of CR 7s and keep track of that in combat." Past CR 8 or so, and certainly past CR 11, the few monsters which remain are meant to be bosses. Playing them as mooks cheapens the experience ("ANOTHER adult white dragon? Groan...")

Have you considered this as an indication as to the rarity of those CR monsters in relation to the remainder of the world? Super tough monsters would theoretically be super rare as having large populations of them would be world shattering.

Another option may be to look at throwing other parties at them instead. Built using the same rules the characters use. Why keep using the MM when the world may be populated by non-MM creatures already in droves?



2. Manual of the Planes/Deities & Demigods- I really feel that these two could potentially be combined into one, and I'd be satisfied (though not necessarily happy) if all WOTC did was take the 3/3.5 editions of the books and update the non-fluff bits with 5e mechanics. Planar points of interest, deity abodes and temple hierarchies are fun to plan out here or there, but having something readily available, like the MM2 with monsters, is super helpful.


As a side note, I considered including the Draconomicon, but that would definitely be fanboy-ish, as I can't really see a good reason to shill out as much money as something like that would cost. I hope WOTC does eventually get to it, but they could probably release that as a UA for pure fluff (and maybe throw in classes that get dragon hunter themed sub classes), as the stats for chromatic/metallic dragons would already be covered in the MM. Any other dragon types would be gravy at that point.

It takes no effort to use this information in 5 from 3x. Since it is mostly non-game mechanic explanation, and even when they have it is it really needed? Do Gods need stats other than their influences and ideologies? Do the planes need huge changes to spell mechanics that haven't been already described?

I do well enough using those 3x resources, that I doubt I would purchase such splat books even if they were printed. Why spend money I don't need to?

[mephnick]

Have you considered this as an indication as to the rarity of those CR monsters in relation to the remainder of the world? Super tough monsters would theoretically be super rare as having large populations of them would be world shattering.


True, but you can't argue there isn't a limited selection of high CR monsters. What do you even throw against high level characters that doesn't break the setting in multiples? Single "unique" high CR monsters can't challenge PCs (even with legendary actions) and having every monster have 10 mooks in every fight gets tiresome. High level humanoid NPCs also need to be used sparingly unless you're playing super high fantasy. Having a few more monsters that can be thrown at the PCs in groups of 4 or less would be nice. I can't throw Balors and Angels at them all day and I really shouldn't have to use something like the Angry DM Paragon system to make climatic boss battles. Also the lack of monsters in certain categories still stands.

I really like the first MM but there's definitely room for more.

[MrFahrenheit]

True, but you can't argue there isn't a limited selection of high CR monsters. What do you even throw against high level characters that doesn't break the setting in multiples? Single "unique" high CR monsters can't challenge PCs (even with legendary actions) and having every monster have 10 mooks in every fight gets tiresome. High level humanoid NPCs also need to be used sparingly unless you're playing super high fantasy. Having a few more monsters that can be thrown at the PCs in groups of 4 or less would be nice. I can't throw Balors and Angels at them all day and I really shouldn't have to use something like the Angry DM Paragon system to make climatic boss battles. Also the lack of monsters in certain categories still stands.

I really like the first MM but there's definitely room for more.

This. There is room for high level mooks that doesn't break the specialness of those intended to be solos. Can take lower level mooks and beef them up (Orc clan lords, ogre skull crushers, whatever...you get the point). And I understand I can do this myself, but it'd be a real nice time saver to have it pre-prepared.

Running the higher level encounters with mobs of lower mooks does get tiresome, as mentioned.

As for the MotP/Deities, I'm not talking about fluff, but mechanical aspects. You may have one way of DMing the wind on Pandemonium, but I'll have another. Would be nice to see it from WOTC themselves. Does it have to be a book? Maybe not, but it seems a bit long for a UA...

[R.Shackleford]

1) 3.5 Binder fluff/mechanics

Short rest/long rest change ups and vestige fluff would be amazing.

A) Tome of Battle: Making martial classes worth going past level 5.

Alpha) Magic of Incarnum: Short/long rest reconfiguration yet again would be amazing.

Simple doesn't have to mean bland and devoid of options.

[krugaan]

a) Logic and Reason: A Low INT Guide to High INT Posting

b) Nauseatica Simulacra - 1001 more ways to abuse Simulacra

c) Quantum Mechanics and You - Understanding the Mysteries of Minor Illusion

d) MM2

e) Probably a PHB2 or DMG2 where they define some problem terms, as well

[Discord]

Not sure where these mechanics would fit into a splat book but things I'd love to see, actually, both of these might fit into an MM2

More templates, the only templates we have now are half-dragon I believe?

Also... being able to graft monster parts onto yourself, I always thought that was a neat part of 3.5

[R.Shackleford]

Not sure where these mechanics would fit into a splat book but things I'd love to see, actually, both of these might fit into an MM2

More templates, the only templates we have now are half-dragon I believe?

Also... being able to graft monster parts onto yourself, I always thought that was a neat part of 3.5

The dragon born race needs to be forgotten and replaced with the dragon born template.

Make it much like the Revnant and you have yourself a good time.

[Discord]

The dragon born race needs to be forgotten and replaced with the dragon born template.

Make it much like the Revnant and you have yourself a good time.

The Dragonborn of Bahamut were an awesome template, all the flavor that went into that template was great. The 5e template is lack-luster in comparison.

[R.Shackleford]

The Dragonborn of Bahamut were an awesome template, all the flavor that went into that template was great. The 5e template is lack-luster in comparison.

Dragonborn of Bahamut Fluff + 4e Dragonbreath Feats + 5e Core System (template and rules) = Perfect dragon born setup.


Edit: Totally working on a setting, this is the next splat book that we need :p haha

[Regitnui]

Also... being able to graft monster parts onto yourself, I always thought that was a neat part of 3.5

Also Undying, elemental and plant grafts, as well as the daelkyr/aberration symbiotes. Whether that'd be material for PHB2 or a DMG2 is a different question.

[Scarey Nerd]

Definitely MM2, I sorely need more Fey and Undead, as well as other things.

The SCAG was a great Forgotten Realms-specific splat, since Faerun is the 5th edition default setting. I would love either other individual campaign setting books, or as was already suggested a Manual of Worlds type thing where it has sections for each setting and finalised rules (I'm not a fan of eberron but I love warforged and changelings, so I need them in my life).

Personally some of my favourite books from 3.5 were the "Races of..." books, especially for their language tables etc. If we got a book dedicated to just the races of D&D, with a chapter on Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Warforged, Dragonborn, Aasimar, just everything, I'd love that to bits.

[Dudu]

I want alternate class features. Or, if that sounds too dramatic, alternate archetype features.

Overall, I think 5.0 cut customization a bit too much. 3.5 was "the land where everything could happen" while 4.0 was "pick one of those couple options and go". I think 5.0 is leaning more towards 4.0 in that regard, which is a bad thing.

Why should I have only one way to be a conjurer? Perhaps a feature that allows you to have one concentration slot that can be used solely for summons (and the other concentration spell cannot be a summon). I'd like that.

Always though that the way classes were handled in Pathfinder was closer to the ideal. I like the 5.0 system more, but I miss the customization options avaible in Pathfinder.

Best case would be an entire book devoted to class customization, with a couple of good examples ready to be played. This game needs some build diversification.