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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Evil Archetypes: The Oath of Domination and Undeath Domain (Needs balance fixing)



Giegue
2016-05-13, 09:59 AM
As the title says. I made a few options for villainous PCs/Anti-heroes but some of their abilities may be way too broken. If anybody has advice for fixing them balance-wise, I'd be grateful! Anyway..here they are...

The Oath of Domination (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mWHptG18XPtiNkmgdPo3iqvLkK7zZuUePZTG_qEyf7Q/edit?usp=sharing) - A Paladin oath that leans lawful evil and is a less "dark" take on 3.5e's Paladin of Tyranny.

The Undeath Domain (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sSCsmCz-naLchH2JiDx4Euk6jowOe3kA3ijgi_qNPqU/edit?usp=sharing) - A cleric domain meant to act as a foil to the Death domain in settings where the God/Goddess of Death is anti-undead/necromancy

So, any thoughts on how to make these better and balance them out?

This be Richard
2016-05-13, 10:57 AM
Just looking at the Oath for now... Might come back to the Domain later.

Sovereign's Glory seems a bit overpowered to me. To compare it to Turn the Faithless or the Unholy...
You're still driving the enemy away. Granted, a creature affected by a Turn power can't attack, while a creature afflicted by Sovereign's Glory still can (albeit with disadvantage), but -- importantly -- a turned enemy stops being turned if they take damage. With Sovereign's Glory, there's nothing stopping your crew from murdering the crap out of the enemies while they struggle to make saving throws at a distance from a paladin that's probably giving chase.
Probably more importantly, the Turn channels are balanced in part by the fact that they only affect two enemy types each. Sovereign's Glory can affect anything. So you can drop that bomb anytime you want against any enemies you want. That's huge.

Royal Countenance also seems pretty massive when compared to the Knowledge Cleric's "Knowledge of the Ages" channel. Granted, Knowledge of the Ages allows you to boost any skill, but Royal Countenance lets you boost multiple skills, for six times the duration of Knowledge of the Ages, and to higher levels because it adds the Charisma modifier in addition to proficiency.
Off the top of my head, I might make it give Advantage to all Insight, Persuasion, and Intimidation checks for ten minutes. Not sure that's great, but it occurs to me as a way to give a flat bonus to all the skills that doesn't vary if you already have proficiency in some of the skills (which you probably do) or add Charisma mod to skills that are already benefitting from your Charisma mod.

My main problem with Elegant Subjugation is that I'm not sure how I feel about a level 7 paladin subclass feature enhancing a channel divinity effect instead of providing its own passive boost. It's tricky, though, because you're going for an offensive powerset here, and all level seven features except for Vengeance (including Oathbreaker) are ally-enhancing auras... and even the Vengeance paladin's level 7 feature is a buff.
Maybe level 7 could host a feature that makes your allies seem more impressive due to their association with you, giving them your charisma bonus to something social when they're within 10 feet of you (or 30 feet at 18th level)? I'd like to suggest protection from being charmed -- they know where their loyalties lie, and it is with you -- but the paladin of devotion already has that.

At level 15, once again everybody except the vengeance paladin gets something defensive. And there certainly aren't any 15th level auras. You might want to nerf Aura of Oppression and make it your level 7 feature. Also, making a save that impacts making a save seems a little convoluted.
It bears noting that any effect that makes wisdom saves harder would probably be an untoward buff for...

...Absolute Rule. Absolute Rule is extremely powerful, but I'm not sure it's too powerful for a level 20 feature.
For what it's worth, though? This is another place you could stick Aura of Oppression: a level 20 aura could easily impose disadvantage on all wisdom saves and still have room for other benefits.

Giegue
2016-05-13, 11:53 AM
Thanks for the help! I'm sending this from mobile, so I can't edit the docs and will likely make tons of typos..so please have patience with the typos. Anyway..I am wondering a few things...

A)For Sovrigien's Glory the original version actually forced them to grovel before you(giving them the prone condition) but allowed them all to save at the end of each round to negate it. Would this work better than it is now if the ability was limited to humanoids only? If not, what about if the current ability was limited to just humanoids? Do note that frightened does not mean they have to run away from you..the "run away" effect of the fear spell is part of the spell itself, not the frightened condition.

B) I like the idea of Aura of Oppression being moved to level 7 like the other auras, but how would you nerf it? Perhaps a flat -1 penalty to wisdom saves of all creatures in the aura, increasing to -2 with the 15th level feature? Or do you have other ideas? Is a flat -1 penalty too weak..should it just be -2 at level 7? Thoughts on how to nerf it would be most appreciated! If I keep this feature, perhaps make absolute rule a Charisma save instead? Cha save would fit the fluff, so yeah...

Wulfskadi
2016-05-13, 08:56 PM
Thanks for the help! I'm sending this from mobile, so I can't edit the docs and will likely make tons of typos..so please have patience with the typos. Anyway..I am wondering a few things...

A)For Sovrigien's Glory the original version actually forced them to grovel before you(giving them the prone condition) but allowed them all to save at the end of each round to negate it. Would this work better than it is now if the ability was limited to humanoids only? If not, what about if the current ability was limited to just humanoids? Do note that frightened does not mean they have to run away from you..the "run away" effect of the fear spell is part of the spell itself, not the frightened condition.

B) I like the idea of Aura of Oppression being moved to level 7 like the other auras, but how would you nerf it? Perhaps a flat -1 penalty to wisdom saves of all creatures in the aura, increasing to -2 with the 15th level feature? Or do you have other ideas? Is a flat -1 penalty too weak..should it just be -2 at level 7? Thoughts on how to nerf it would be most appreciated! If I keep this feature, perhaps make absolute rule a Charisma save instead? Cha save would fit the fluff, so yeah...


Aura of oppression: everyone in radius subtracts 1d4 from the first saving throw they make while in the aura.

Sovereign's Glory: All creatures currently in violation of the law must make save or be turned as with the turn feature on all such channel divinity powers.

Wulfskadi
2016-05-13, 09:00 PM
Turning only creatures currently in violation of the law makes this channel divinity power just as strategic as it is balanced. On the one hand, if your out in the wilderness and are attacked by beasts this is utterly useless unless someone in your party is protected by law. However if fighting bandits, this would be amazing. It would have all the OP-ness evil characters are known for while still being balanced in its difficulty to use.

For as a wise man once said.

Power and Versatility are interchangeable. You may trade one for the other as easily one exchanges currency.

Giegue
2016-05-13, 09:19 PM
I actually like those ideas, IMO, and if you don't mind I think I will use them with some name changes on the channel divinity to make it fit the fluff.(The sovereign's glory fluff is particularly awesome.) As for the 15th level ability, I was thinking a fear/disadvantage-based feature...so something roughly like this...

"Starting at 15th level, when you become the target of an attack, you can use your reaction to instill fear in your attacker, making it hesitant to attack you. If the attacking creature is within 30ft and can hear your voice you can force it to make a wisdom saving throw vs. your Paladin spell save DC. On a failed save it is frightened of you until the end of it's turn. On a successful save it rolls 1d4 and subtracts the result from it's attack roll.

You can use this feature a number of times per-day equal to your charisma modifier, and regain all spent uses when you finish a long rest."

That may be too broken a defensive feature, however, so I'd like second thoughts.

Wulfskadi
2016-05-13, 09:23 PM
Elegant Subjugation:

Possibly makes all allies within 10 feet count as you as well for the purpose of intimidation


greatly increases power of party if you invest in intimidation and charisma, which as an evil paladin you should