Pathfinder: Zero Magic Items

[Shadow Fox]

I want to play in games that are like, lets say for characters 12 and up! But I want to be a fighter and I want to have Zero magic items of any kind
(save for maybe a +10 armor and +10 weapon since I don't count adding +'s as that item being magical). How would I go about doing that and still be able to survive and be the best non magical fighter I can be!

I feel there should be options in D&D for people who want to "opt out" of ever having any kind of magical gear or spells including + items. But sadly, that is not the fantasy world we live in.

[RFLS]

For future reference, you'll get more of a response on threads like these if you put them in the appropriate forum; for this one, you wanted the 3.5/etc subforum, as that's where the Pathfinder crowd hangs out.

That being said, the only two options I know of that lets you do this is 3.5's Vow of Poverty line of feats (from the BoED) and Pathfinder's monk archetype vows. 3.5's Vows make you at least mildly competent (although still a far cry from someone using magic items), and Pathfinder's Vows are a joke.

[Milo v3]

I feel there should be options in D&D for people who want to "opt out" of ever having any kind of magical gear or spells including + items. But sadly, that is not the fantasy world we live in.

That is an option in Pathfinder unchained.

[Spore]

That is an option in Pathfinder unchained.

And this is the corresponding link: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/automatic-bonus-progression

[Shadow Fox]

have any of you guys tried this attunement. and level progression thing?

How well would I keep up in a world where all the big kids ( level 15-20 characters) are loaded with nothing but magic items?

Would I still be able to keep up?

[Takewo]

I have never tried that at high levels, but I tried something similar at lower levels and it worked just fine. Basically you're getting the same bonuses that you'd get with magic items but without using them.

The problem is that I don't think that solves your problem. If I understood correctly, you want to avoid all magic items but those which give you some sort of bonus, whereas that system assumes that you'll be using all magic items but those which give you some sort of bonus.

[Shadow Fox]

I have never tried that at high levels, but I tried something similar at lower levels and it worked just fine. Basically you're getting the same bonuses that you'd get with magic items but without using them.

The problem is that I don't think that solves your problem. If I understood correctly, you want to avoid all magic items but those which give you some sort of bonus, whereas that system assumes that you'll be using all magic items but those which give you some sort of bonus.

Actually, I would be without Magic items...period. No potions, scrolls, magic gear. Just a Non Magical Sword with Non Magical Armor and Normal Peasant Clothing with a backpack ( NOT a Haversack or Bag of Holding ) that has a tent on top, a bed roll and basic survival gear.....and go on a level 20-30 adventure with a team full of basically everyone else would basically be a wizard or a cleric at that point because magic is way more powerful.

[Takewo]

Actually, I would be without Magic items...period. No potions, scrolls, magic gear. Just a Non Magical Sword with Non Magical Armor and Normal Peasant Clothing with a backpack ( NOT a Haversack or Bag of Holding ) that has a tent on top, a bed roll and basic survival gear.....and go on a level 20-30 adventure with a team full of basically everyone else would basically be a wizard or a cleric at that point because magic is way more powerful.

Okay, I seem to have misread your first post then. I understood it as meaning that you wouldn't mind weapons and armours with a magical bonus.


I want to play in games that are like, lets say for characters 12 and up! But I want to be a fighter and I want to have Zero magic items of any kind
(save for maybe a +10 armor and +10 weapon since I don't count adding +'s as that item being magical). How would I go about doing that and still be able to survive and be the best non magical fighter I can be!


Anyway, then I don't think it's enough. That system assumes that you'll still be using wands and flaming swords and all sorts of magical items, it only removes the need for items that give you a bonus to your stats, attack, AC, etc.

However, it's still a good starting point. If you don't want to use any sort of magic item and everybody else is using them, you'll be less adaptable than them, because you will be able to do less things. That doesn't mean that you're not useful at all, though. The chief challenge that I see is not with combat, I think you should be pretty balanced there (with what is expected of a fighter anyway), it's more about your versatility. But again, that doesn't mean that it's not a playable character.

[goto124]

Why not, say, switch to 5e?

[Takewo]

Why not, say, switch to 5e?

Because, if I understood correctly, the rest of the party is going to be a bunch of casters fattened with loads of magical items.

Also, not every table has the resources/willingness to spend money to buy it.

[goto124]

5e has to be bought?

[Milo v3]

Some people don't like 5e, reason why an individual might not play it doesn't really matter for this discussion though.

[Takewo]

You could also ask your GM to give you more feats/skill points to make up for the versatility that you would get from magic.

[Spore]

You could also ask your GM to give you more feats/skill points to make up for the versatility that you would get from magic.

You cannot buy overland flight or teleport with feats or skills.

[Takewo]

You cannot buy overland flight or teleport with feats or skills.

No, you can't. But you can jump, swim, talk people into buying almost anything (skills are very good in getting effects similar to mental control magic), make your enemies tremble with fear, understand somebody else's motives, and so forth.

It's not the perfect substitute for magic, but it's something.

[Psyren]

Just to note that Automatic Bonus Progression still assumes some magic items (50% WBL.) The "accelerated progression" for zero magic is minimally adequate, but I don't think it's very effective unless you're avoiding T4 and lower classes entirely, and some challenges like aerial combat will put your PCs at a disadvantage.

Also, concerning PF VoP - it's worth noting that you do get to keep a single item of value with that system, which can be magic, so if your GM is willing to make it a strong Scaling Magic Item (or artifact) you can compensate for the lack of other slots and actually come out ahead of 3.5 VoP.

[Shadow Fox]

Why not, say, switch to 5e?

I bought the book, but after taking one look at like two pages my friends have flat out stated that they have zero interest so I never bothered reading it yet.

Plus, there is the really weird advantage vs disadvantage rolling two d20's thing that feels awkward that I remember from the Beta testing.

Plus, Pathfinder is DA BOMB!~ lol.

I think I would be ok with that auto level progression thing for my character bonuses. It doesn't really count as magic at all so I don't mind it.

I just think it would be kind of cool and almost a modest kind of feeling to play a character in a game under these self induced penalties.

OK, so basically here is what the guys I play with do.

Let's say it is a high level game where everyone has hundreds of thousands of gold for starting wealth. Like a level 15 or 20.

basically Every single player has
Minimal +5 weapon and armor.
Ring of Pro +5
Natural Armor +5 item
Ring of evasion
Some +6 bonus item to a stat like Dex
Ioun stone +1 to AC
Tons of Potions
Someone has some scrolls
A few wands of healing.
Haversack

and so on and so on.


Everyone is ALWAYS a caster of some kind, even if they use a sword they have 9th level magic somehow. We always have a cleric or a Druid of some kind, half the time someone is a pet class who uses a mount or special attack pet and to be able to be a guy who went out and adventured with these same people and reached level 20 along side of them, and I did so by not magic but skill alone.


The way I see it is that I would be playing a character who never relied on magic as a short cut to gain the power he needs to "save the day". To this character, magic is a short cut for your own weaknesses because you were too weak to save someones life yourself. All those magic bonuses that you have, having a permanent 50% miss chance, +20 to this skill, magically enhanced armor and swords that always hit their mark and make loud sounds and flashes of fire and lightning when they strike, magical spells that can LAZILY annihilate anything in one casting. He reached level 15 or level 20 on pure skill and will power alone. Never once having to rely on a magic potion, or to take a short cut in order to get victory and his battles, unlike his companions was never once a battle between who spent the most money on the coolest magic items or who knew the most 9th level spells or reserved a spell for that fight, got there without any of that.

The auto level progression sounds awesome, but I still need a couple more things to really bring it home I feel.

[Shadow Fox]

No, you can't. But you can jump, swim, talk people into buying almost anything (skills are very good in getting effects similar to mental control magic), make your enemies tremble with fear, understand somebody else's motives, and so forth.

It's not the perfect substitute for magic, but it's something.

Tell that to a bard.

Skills when it comes to anything a skill can be applied to are VASTLY Superior to ANY spell or spell caster. Why?, how? First of all, it is vastly harder to protect against since it is skill vs skill and a nat 20 means nothing when rolling against it and the skill points you can dump into whatever along with your bonuses can make it almost impossible to beat if you specialize in it.

Secondly, You can use skills infinitely and some skills like "knowledge" "craft" "Profession" etc, cannot be replaced by magic.