Anybody have any links or knowledge about how tiamat feels about undead dragons?

[sutasafaia]

Our campaign has somehow managed to get to a point where we're trying to create a safe haven for followers of Tiamat and Nerull. The problem is that we aren't sure how the two would interact. Being an evil creature, I have the feeling Tiamat wouldn't care at all whether or not a dragon was undead, as long as it had it's intelligence/soul in place (wasn't made mindless, basically), had a horde, and was still worshiping her. Greedy goddess is greedy. Also, we would not be actively killing dragons to raise them, we would just be raising corpses that died already. We would absolutely not be harming the dragons ourselves.

Related to that:

In my opinion, followers of Tiamat would have more or less zero issues living alongside followers of Nerull, at least on a divine level. Maybe some of the followers themselves might not like it, but I don't see any problem of conflict arising between the two sects, particularly since we plan to have a small army of mindless skeletons mining for gold for Tiamat 24/7. Would Tiamat followers generally have problems with the undead in general? Again, on a divine level, whether or not a person likes the undead isn't something that can be controlled. We're just trying to make sure that there are no ethical problems with combining the two religions in a single country.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Have you not ever heard of dragonspawn? Tiamat -does not- care a whit about the bodily integrity of chromatic dragons. Not one iota. Undeath should be fine.

[MisterKaws]

Have you not ever heard of dragonspawn? Tiamat -does not- care a whit about the bodily integrity of chromatic dragons. Not one iota. Undeath should be fine.

IIRC, Kobolds were kinda made that way too.

[Kelb_Panthera]

IIRC, Kobolds were kinda made that way too.

The way I remember the lore is that, in the earliest of days when Bahamut, Tiamat, and the first of their children were all the dragons that lived and the first of tiamat and bahamut's children were immortal, the first dragons went to war at their progenitor's behest. Where their blood struck the earth, the first kobolds were spawned. When the war reached a stalemate and most of the dragons were slain in battle, most of the remaining dragons came to their parents and asked if they could be allowed to reproduce and were told that they could but to do so would mean giving up their immortality. All but a handful of them accepted this and became the dragons we know today. The few that did not became the draconic pantheon.

I could have a few details off by a bit but that's how it went, IIRC.

[sutasafaia]

That's an entirely different lore than the one I heard. The one I heard was she had to force one of her eggs to hatch early to protect her lair during an attack, that egg was Kurtulmak. They discovered one of her eggs that had rolled away from the nest during the fight, determined it was useless for her now, and used his magic to hatch it. That was the first kobold.

I guess it depends which book and which version of the game.

[Khedrac]

Well, the "original" undead dragon was Dragotha in the Greyhawk setting - and since he used to be one of Tiamat's mates (red) I suspect they really do not get along. (I cannot remember which one rejected the other).
When it comes to more conventional (i.e. Faerun) dracoliches, then I doubt if Tiamat cares that much. It depends how much she expects to be worshipped by her children. My take on it (particulalry with the addition of other draconic deities) is that she is not bothered about worship - obedience is what she expects. If her plans never call for them to do something and they never mess up one of her plans they are not supposed to be involved in she won't care; if they do and the dracolich doesn't do what she wants then she will be personally annoyed with that individual dracolic.

[nyjastul69]

The way I remember the lore is that, in the earliest of days when Bahamut, Tiamat, and the first of their children were all the dragons that lived and the first of tiamat and bahamut's children were immortal, the first dragons went to war at their progenitor's behest. Where their blood struck the earth, the first kobolds were spawned. When the war reached a stalemate and most of the dragons were slain in battle, most of the remaining dragons came to their parents and asked if they could be allowed to reproduce and were told that they could but to do so would mean giving up their immortality. All but a handful of them accepted this and became the dragons we know today. The few that did not became the draconic pantheon.

I could have a few details off by a bit but that's how it went, IIRC.

The way I remember the lore is that kobolds were dog-men and had nothing to do with dragons. 3e changed that bit though.

[MisterKaws]

The way I remember the lore is that, in the earliest of days when Bahamut, Tiamat, and the first of their children were all the dragons that lived and the first of tiamat and bahamut's children were immortal, the first dragons went to war at their progenitor's behest. Where their blood struck the earth, the first kobolds were spawned. When the war reached a stalemate and most of the dragons were slain in battle, most of the remaining dragons came to their parents and asked if they could be allowed to reproduce and were told that they could but to do so would mean giving up their immortality. All but a handful of them accepted this and became the dragons we know today. The few that did not became the draconic pantheon.

I could have a few details off by a bit but that's how it went, IIRC.

This looks like some DM's custom lore.

[Kelb_Panthera]

This looks like some DM's custom lore.

Straight from races of the dragon.

There's bits and pieces from other sources too (all first party WotC) but I'm pretty good about not making that particular mistake.

[hamishspence]

A kobold legend about their origins, to be precise:




While Kurtulmak is reputed to be a mortal ascended to divinity, kobolds credit Io, the Ninefold Dragon, with their creation. It is told that when Io first created true dragons, they were originally immortal gods, less powerful than Io but much like him. To make each one of his creations distinct, Io gave each a different aspect of his personality. These divine dragons rarely got along, pursuing only one goal in common—the acquisition of material wealth.

The true dragons quickly realized they lacked the power to manipulate creation in all the ways necessary to accomplish their goals, and they petitioned Io for aid. Io, being an impartial god, would not play favorites with his creations and gave each dragon the same choice. He taught them how to create life by giving up a piece of themselves, but he warned that in so doing, they would permanently be rendered mortal and eventually die. The life they created, however, would serve their desires without fail.

Perhaps not yet wise enough to appreciate their divine existence, the dragons accepted the knowledge Io offered and departed for the world below. They took up residence in widely separate lands. There, the true dragons did as Io instructed, each severing a single limb. Not only did each limb start growing back immediately, but the severed part also grew into an adult dragon. The original true dragons thereby gained mates.

Furthermore, wherever the dragons’ blood had spilled, little creatures began to emerge out of the ground with alert, crimson eyes, already looking up at their creators for guidance. Thus were kobolds born, witnesses to the moments during which the immortality of the true dragons slipped away.

It's not clear how accurate it is.

[KillianHawkeye]

The way I remember the lore is that kobolds were dog-men and had nothing to do with dragons. 3e changed that bit though.

Yeah, the pre-3rd Edition kobolds don't have too much in common with the reptilian/draconic kobolds that WotC has been using since they took over D&D, other than being small and annoying in large quantities.