Some questions about Liquid Pain and Ambrosia ( 3.0 Vile Dakness and Exalted Deeds )

[Conradine]

Rules say a character cannot tolerate ( or produce ) more extractions of Liquid Pain than his Constitution score.

Question 1: could a character recuperate Constitution due resting and healing, then be tortured again for more Liquid Pain?

Question 2: if a character is subjected to spells that causes pain but no physical harm ( like Symbol of Pain, Agony, Angry Ache ecc. ) should he be able to tolerate more pain extractions? Should he still get Constitution damage due mental damage ( or in form of heart attack due pain ecc. )?

Question 3: if a character is subjected to pain, but he's under a Masochism spell or wearing a Pectoral of the Sublime Pain - therefore he feels pain as pleasure - is still possible to extract pain from him?

Question 4: it is possible to extract Liquid Joy from a character experiencing evil pleasure ( like a torturer under a Sadism spell ) ?

Question 5: how about a character experiencing pleasure from a drug created by evil spell ( either Liquid Pain or Mordayn Vapor causes extreme pleasure ), would it be possible to extract Liquid Joy from him?

Question 6: if a character is subjected to pain, but he's under a Masochism spell or wearing a Pectoral of the Sublime Pain - therefore he feels pain as pleasure - would be possible to extract Liquid Joy from him?

[Gildedragon]

1) Yes
2) gotta reread; But probably
3) No
4-6) Yes

[Necroticplague]

Rules say a character cannot tolerate ( or produce ) more extractions of Liquid Pain than his Constitution score.

Question 1: could a character recuperate Constitution due resting and healing, then be tortured again for more Liquid Pain?

Question 2: if a character is subjected to spells that causes pain but no physical harm ( like Symbol of Pain, Agony, Angry Ache ecc. ) should he be able to tolerate more pain extractions? Should he still get Constitution damage due mental damage ( or in form of heart attack due pain ecc. )?

Question 3: if a character is subjected to pain, but he's under a Masochism spell or wearing a Pectoral of the Sublime Pain - therefore he feels pain as pleasure - is still possible to extract pain from him?

Question 4: it is possible to extract Liquid Joy from a character experiencing evil pleasure ( like a torturer under a Sadism spell ) ?

Question 5: how about a character experiencing pleasure from a drug created by evil spell ( either Liquid Pain or Mordayn Vapor causes extreme pleasure ), would it be possible to extract Liquid Joy from him?

Question 6: if a character is subjected to pain, but he's under a Masochism spell or wearing a Pectoral of the Sublime Pain - therefore he feels pain as pleasure - would be possible to extract Liquid Joy from him?

1.yes.
2.No. The constitution damage is intrinsic to the process of extracting pain. Normal torture merely does HP damage.
3.Nope, he's not feeling pain.
4.It's probably rather hard to get enough concentrated pleasure to do so, but theoretically, yes.
5. I don't think being drugged is quiet enough. But either way, yes to the general idea. It just cares that you're in pleasure, not what caused said pleasure.
6. Yes. This is a rather well known trick for getting around crafting costs.

[Gildedragon]

2.No. The constitution damage is intrinsic to the process of extracting pain. Normal torture merely does HP damage.
I can't find anything on how extraction of pain does Con damage; just the restriction that "A victim cannot endure—or produce, to put it another way—more extractions of pain than it has points of Constitution." ... which actually is making me recant my answer to number 1 to a "no"

[Âmesang]

I had thought about asking at least the first question due to how… vague the whole rule for pain extraction seems to be. :smalltongue:

[Conradine]

5. I don't think being drugged is quiet enough. But either way, yes to the general idea. It just cares that you're in pleasure, not what caused said pleasure.

In the effect description of Liquid Pain ( drug ) it's wrote it causes an intense sensation of pleasure.

Vapor Mordayn causes visions so beautiful that the subject is compelled to try to get another dose even if he knows it would kill him. So I think it's an almost supernatural level of pleasure.

[Ettina]

I can't find anything on how extraction of pain does Con damage; just the restriction that "A victim cannot endure—or produce, to put it another way—more extractions of pain than it has points of Constitution." ... which actually is making me recant my answer to number 1 to a "no"

It doesn't even state that they take any Const damage, just that they can't endure any more pain extraction.

[Âmesang]

But what does that even mean? Once fully extracted of pain, do they die? Do they not die and are merely dulled of all pain from then on?

If it had given some sort of time limit it'd likely be less problematic. "A victim cannot endure more extractions of pain than it has points of Constitution per day/week/month/etc." At least then it might give some indication that, eventually, the subjects of pain extraction "recover" in time… and can then be once more subject in the future.

[Necroticplague]

But what does that even mean? Once fully extracted of pain, do they die? Do they not die and are merely dulled of all pain from then on?

If it had given some sort of time limit it'd likely be less problematic. "A victim cannot endure more extractions of pain than it has points of Constitution per day/week/month/etc." At least then it might give some indication that, eventually, the subjects of pain extraction "recover" in time… and can then be once more subject in the future.

Honestly, I think the people who made it didn't consider that you'd be making liquid pain and NOT just keep at it until the person's dead, and that part of the rules was just to stop people from trying to extract pain from corpses. Probably assumed if you were evil enough to be torturing people for pain, that you were the kind of cackling cartoon villain who would keep at it until the resource is depleted. Despite being rather stupid on it's face value, for quiet a few reasons.

[EoNhOeKnOwS]

So still nothing on the con? I'm glad I stumbled upon this lol I'm very curious what you guys would say to rule

I was thinking of house ruling either 1 con dmg per vial or cause greater pain with more con damage and making a thicker agony.

Also I want to sell souls to Devils demons and hags and whomever needs them

Anyone know info on this, like how much to sell them for and would any trapped soul (what are good ways of doing this that makes the soul trade able/usable? Can I make soul maggots like the ones hags trade around?

I've read fiendish codex 1 and 2 and vile darkness and well I just don't think it says it anywhere, players and DM thoughts and ideas would be great

[Zanos]

Question 1: could a character recuperate Constitution due resting and healing, then be tortured again for more Liquid Pain?

No. No part of the process deals constitution damage.


Question 2: if a character is subjected to spells that causes pain but no physical harm ( like Symbol of Pain, Agony, Angry Ache ecc. ) should he be able to tolerate more pain extractions? Should he still get Constitution damage due mental damage ( or in form of heart attack due pain ecc. )?

No. Again, no part of the process deals constitution damage.


Question 3: if a character is subjected to pain, but he's under a Masochism spell or wearing a Pectoral of the Sublime Pain - therefore he feels pain as pleasure - is still possible to extract pain from him?

Yes, but not for why you think. Masochism says nothing about what the character feels, only that the gain statistical bonuses from receiving damage. Not sure about the pectoral, but in general if the effect says that the character feels pleasure in addition to pain, it should be possible to extract from them.


Question 4: it is possible to extract Liquid Joy from a character experiencing evil pleasure ( like a torturer under a Sadism spell ) ?

See above. Sadism technically does not modify how a character feels. But yes, a character experiencing pleasure in general can have Liquid Joy extracted from them. Worth noting that Masochism and Sadism both grant luck bonuses, rather than morale bonuses.


Question 5: how about a character experiencing pleasure from a drug created by evil spell ( either Liquid Pain or Mordayn Vapor causes extreme pleasure ), would it be possible to extract Liquid Joy from him?

Yep.


Question 6: if a character is subjected to pain, but he's under a Masochism spell or wearing a Pectoral of the Sublime Pain - therefore he feels pain as pleasure - would be possible to extract Liquid Joy from him?
Yes to the general idea, no to Masochism specifically.

[EoNhOeKnOwS]

So Zanos have you any 2 cents on my post from today?

Cheers!

[Âmesang]

…or cause greater pain with more con damage and making a thicker agony.
Is anyone else imagining an evil version of a Super Squishee? :smalltongue: One made entirely out of agony!

"If you survive please come again!"