What if Cthulhu went to Hell?

[Xuldarinar]

In Lords of Madness (3.5), we find that there is a form of aboleth that have dwelled in Stygia which are statistically represented as advanced fiendish aboleths. From this we know that residency on other places for a long enough time can effect these ancient entities that don't hail from conventional reality (unless I am mistaken). Given this, I couldn't' help but wonder if this carries further.


So Inspired by this, I have a question; If a great old one, outer god, or some other aberrant god-like entity, were to set up residence in another plane.. What would happen? Would they themselves be changed given time, and if so.. how?

If this answer differs between settings, ranging from those of D&D to that of the Pathfinder setting, I'd love to know the difference.

[Keltest]

I think its more likely that, once they chased out everyone who wouldn't serve them, Hell itself would change to suit their whims.

[illyahr]

I agree. The great old ones defy the laws that the planes, even the outer planes, run on. It would eventually start warping the plane it dwelt on which, given enough time, would warp the planes around it in a domino effect. This is why the great old ones are so dangerous. Not because they are inherently violent like demons, but that reality as we know it can't handle their presence for any length of time without collapsing under their influence.

[ATHATH]

Don't worry guys, I know someone who can help answer this question!

...What's afroakuma's summoning ritual, again?

[Coidzor]

Aboleths are of reality. However, they are what was formed as a side effect from a Far Realm Entity entering and being trapped within our reality. Think of them as the universe's sneezy, weepy, slimy, mucusy allergic reaction to getting a nostril full of Far Realm pollen. That far realm entity is now a Demon Lord that doesn't really care about or do much, and revered to some extent by aboleths, IIRC.

Afroakuma's touched upon that a few times over the course of his planar questions thread, if you wanna take a gander or try searching for it.

So, by taking up residence in Hell, Cthulhu's liable to become affected by the ambient Lawful-Evilness of the phsyical-metaphysical substance and nature of the plane, but it's not a given, either.

After all, there's a whole bunch of CG outsider children on Pale Night's(?) layer of the Abyss that have been there for an awfully long time due to a very dumb decision by the ancient Eladrin. (It's sort of canonical that Good is Dumb in D&Dland, though, just look at the Pact Primeval and how they didn't read the fine print. Granted, neither did Primus, who was supposed to arbitrate the whole thing in the first place. But modrons are as modrons do.)

So it depends in part on what he does and his nature and essence and whether you mean Cthulhu in particular or just Lovecraftian horrors from beyond in general.

A god that moves into a plane with the wrong alignment either gets kicked out of the neighbourhood or learns to be a decent neighbor in that neck of the woods or keeps themselves secret, generally, so being a god of tentacular horrors doesn't really change that part.

Asmodeus is pretty sharp, generally speaking, so there'd be plans and contingencies or ad-libbing supreme or something along those lines if someone wanted to try taking over Hell. Heck, he arranged a decades long scheme by some mortals to condemn a material plane to utter destruction in order to trap one of the fallen Lords of the Nine and separate him from his armies long enough to keep him from successfully taking over a single one of the layers of Hell. I believe it was Moloch. Now that archfiend is hanging out with the Rabble of Devil-kind or whatever after finally escaping and is in the middle of an aeons long process of trying to get enough of the ne'er-do-well and malcontent dregs of devil society to shape up and follow him.

[Âmesang]

Of course there's also Ulgurshek, an entity just taking a nap whilst the Abyss formed around it.

[Tvtyrant]

The abyss is strong. Stronger then any god or sentient being. The pulsing core of the abyss is possibly the strongest thing in D&D, so whether it or an Old One would win is up for grabs.

[Xuldarinar]

Don't worry guys, I know someone who can help answer this question!

...What's afroakuma's summoning ritual, again?

Generating a binder on the cusp of divinity proclaiming that the gods would be alright with it, declaring the far realm and shattered night are planes, and contemplating what the offspring of various deities/demigods/vestiges/notable figures would be like?

Im pretty sure we could make an epic level spell capable of conjuring, if memory serves, a powerful elemental.

Or... theres private messages, posting in one of his threads, or hoping he decides to hop right in of his own accord.

[Cirrylius]

Considering there's no salt water to dampen his telepathic abilities, and mortal soul infrastructure probably couldn't handle the weight, Cthulhu in the planes is Cthulhu unimpaired and wide awake. So at the very least every non-fiend on the layer in question spends the rest of eternity wondering if the terrible psychic noise thundering out will suddenly concentrate and hollow out their consciousness like a mellon baller. The fiends can probably treat it like either very good or very bad elevator music. Either way, every being not immune would have to be treated as potentially compromised- Cthulhu's goal (or side effect) for/upon lesser beings is briefly described as a 'holocaust of ecstasy and freedom', which is likely to be unpopular with locals with an invested power structure.

Asmodeus vs. Nyarlathotep, now- that's a fun match :smallbiggrin:

Spoiler Alert: Their grand confrontation is just them pulling off mask after mask, until one turns out to be a disguise of the other.

[Inevitability]

Asmodeus has imprisoned Dukes of Hell in ways so complicated thousands of years and tens of thousands of minions can't free him: even though Asmodeus isn't directly sabotaging plans to do so. He may be one of the two superbeings that wrought this world, and was most likely the more powerful of those two. He's not just evil, but [Evil] incarnate. He tricked the complete pantheon of gods into letting him ruin their creation.

Cthulhu may have more brute force, but seems to lack any advanced plotting ability. He just wakes up, rampages, then may or may not go back to sleep. Even if Asmodeus didn't see his arrival coming, I'm sure he could work Lord Tentacleface into his schemes before the latter has even consumed a single devil.

Worst case scenario: Asmodeus is forced to give up an entire layer of hell to seal Cthulhu away, then goes back to corrupting mortals. Cthulhu rages in his dimensional prison until finally his maddening presence causes the entire layer to collapse back into the Far Realms.

[Eldan]

Generating a binder on the cusp of divinity proclaiming that the gods would be alright with it, declaring the far realm and shattered night are planes, and contemplating what the offspring of various deities/demigods/vestiges/notable figures would be like?

Im pretty sure we could make an epic level spell capable of conjuring, if memory serves, a powerful elemental.

Or... theres private messages, posting in one of his threads, or hoping he decides to hop right in of his own accord.

Not angry enough. Ahem.

"I should go to his thread and ask him to quote all page numbers of dragon magazines that mention elves. Also, in my world, Asmodeus is secretly chaotic good, how would you think his relationship with Mephisto would be?"

I also don't think Lovecrafts Old Ones should even be from the Far Realm. In the context of Lovecraft, they are very much of this universe. That's why they are scary.

[Eldan]

Remember the most important thing about Cthulhu: we know nothing about him.

We don't know his powers, as we have never seen him use them. Maybe he can drive everyone in the multiverse insane when awake. Maybe the few artists and poets worldwide who had weird thoughts and made unnatural art is all he does. We don't know how intelligent he is at planning, as we have never seen him awake with time to plan. We don't know if he's a gnat to Asmodeus or a terrifying power that overshadows the gods, as he only ever faces normal humans not million year old devils.

[Xuldarinar]

-snip-
Asmodeus vs. Nyarlathotep, now- that's a fun match :smallbiggrin:


You know... I could actually see that being canonical in the pathfinder setting; Asmodeus being a form of Nyarlathotep, a personality and expression rooted in law, contrary to the rest of his being, as far as most are concerned anyways.

[Xuldarinar]

Now to flip the discussion. What if Cthulhu, or a simular entity, decided to set up shop in one of the higher planes?

[illyahr]

Cthulhu may have more brute force, but seems to lack any advanced plotting ability. He just wakes up, rampages, then may or may not go back to sleep. Even if Asmodeus didn't see his arrival coming, I'm sure he could work Lord Tentacleface into his schemes before the latter has even consumed a single devil.

That's just it, though. Cthuhlu doesn't rampage, he just is. His very existence is enough to break down the fundamental laws of nature. Now, I'm sure Asmodeus could work out a way to have that work in his favor, but that's in the similar vein to knowing how to have a planar breach work in your favor.

[Cirrylius]

Now to flip the discussion. What if Cthulhu, or a simular entity, decided to set up shop in one of the higher planes?
Ta-da (http://lovecraft.wikia.com/wiki/Kthanid) :smallbiggrin:

Srsly Tho

All-out war or quarantine, very quickly, supported across the whole Upper Planes. That kind of horror right on their doorstep would drive them into a frenzy to get it out get it out get it out

[Xuldarinar]

Ta-da (http://lovecraft.wikia.com/wiki/Kthanid) :smallbiggrin:

Srsly Tho

All-out war or quarantine, very quickly, supported across the whole Upper Planes. That kind of horror right on their doorstep would drive them into a frenzy to get it out get it out get it out

...To think I just asked on the Paizo forums if Umr at-Tawil existed in the pathfinder setting, as it was to my knowledge about the only... good(?) Lovecraft entity I could find.. Huh.

Anyways, yeah.. I can see that. Either, actually. The former case, maybe if he dwelled there long enough, and the latter being the immediate response.



..Because I had to do it, using the limited knowledge I can gather on him.

Kthanid
Home Elysium
Alignment Chaotic Good
Domains: Chaos, Good, Knowledge, Void
Subdomains: Azata, Dark Tapestry, Stars, Thought
Favored Weapon: Dagger
Symbol: A radiant eye with a rune around it.

[Inevitability]

That's just it, though. Cthuhlu doesn't rampage, he just is. His very existence is enough to break down the fundamental laws of nature. Now, I'm sure Asmodeus could work out a way to have that work in his favor, but that's in the similar vein to knowing how to have a planar breach work in your favor.

Did you say 'have a planar breach work in your favor' (https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Tale_of_an_Industrious_Rogue,_Part_I)?

[khadgar567]

Cthuhlu in mount celestia means very bad for every one

[Cirrylius]

Cthuhlu in mount celestia means very bad for every one
Actually, maybe not... is the sea on Celestia's 1st layer fresh or salt water?:smalltongue:

I mean, if you're winding up to rabbit-punch the Lord of R'lyeh, what better place to do it than somewhere he can be re-drowned?

What a tweest.

[Xuldarinar]

Actually, maybe not... is the sea on Celestia's 1st layer fresh or salt water?:smalltongue:

I mean, if you're winding up to rabbit-punch the Lord of R'lyeh, what better place to do it than somewhere he can be re-drowned?

What a tweest.

Sounds like the makings of a malicious prank.. Moving C'thulhu to an ocean on another plane while he sleeps.

[Ashtagon]

Actually, maybe not... is the sea on Celestia's 1st layer fresh or salt water?:smalltongue:

Neither. It's holy water.

[Cirrylius]

...To think I just asked on the Paizo forums if Umr at-Tawil existed in the pathfinder setting, as it was to my knowledge about the only... good(?) Lovecraft entity I could find.
As an aside, there's also Nodens, lord of the Nightgaunts- I can't remember if he got statted in 3.5 or not.

[Xuldarinar]

Neither. It's holy water.

Holy water can be fresh water or salt water, unless I am mistaken.


As an aside, there's also Nodens, lord of the Nightgaunts- I can't remember if he got statted in 3.5 or not.

Can't find anything about that in terms of D&D, though the notion has been tossed about for PF. Interesting, I've much to learn.

[khadgar567]

Holy water can be fresh water or salt water, unless I am mistaken.



Can't find anything about that in terms of D&D, though the notion has been tossed about for PF. Interesting, I've much to learn.

Problem is the monent holy water deals damage he gets forth save to wake up so that means one angry psycic god in unkown area so chutulhu gonna do every thing to keep him self safe which is mind rape every thing as self defence

[illyahr]

Assuming that he is evil, which we can't tell for certain.

[Eldan]

Also assuming that he can actually wake up, is psychic and able to mind rape people.

[khadgar567]

Assuming that he is evil, which we can't tell for certain.

well at least in pathfinder he is CE my bard friend so holly water deals damage on him and celestia goes in to havoc

[illyahr]

well at least in pathfinder he is CE my bard friend so holly water deals damage on him and celestia goes in to havoc

Ah, Pathfinder Cthuhlu. I thought we were talking original Lovecraft mythos.

Sure, the holy water might cause discomfort. No more than a gnat might discomfort you or me, though.

[Inevitability]

The holy water will only damage Cthulhu if he's undead (definitely not) or an evil outsider. I personally think Aberration would make more sense.

[Psyren]

He is an Aberration in PF.

[Coidzor]

Well, that settles that, then. Cthulhu just dyes the holy water Squiddly colored.

[Dalinale]

That's just it, though. Cthuhlu doesn't rampage, he just is. His very existence is enough to break down the fundamental laws of nature. Now, I'm sure Asmodeus could work out a way to have that work in his favor, but that's in the similar vein to knowing how to have a planar breach work in your favor.

Hell would probably have the most natural solution to a sudden Cthuhlu appearance; freeze the big guy in Stygian ice and let him simply be another iceberg floating around in Levistus's domain. At worst, Tantlin would get a little stranger.

[Toilet Cobra]

I think its more likely that, once they chased out everyone who wouldn't serve them, Hell itself would change to suit their whims.

I think this is it. Since Demon Princes exert changes on their layers of the abyss over time, I think it stands to reason that an aberration of that power level or greater could do the same.

Of course it could also work both ways, with the Abyss becoming more Far Realm-y and Cthulhu becoming more demonic. And don't forget that Cthulhu has its own cult and could be changed by being elevated to godhood by infernal worshippers.

[The Vagabond]

...To think I just asked on the Paizo forums if Umr at-Tawil existed in the pathfinder setting, as it was to my knowledge about the only... good(?) Lovecraft entity I could find.. Huh.

Anyways, yeah.. I can see that. Either, actually. The former case, maybe if he dwelled there long enough, and the latter being the immediate response.



..Because I had to do it, using the limited knowledge I can gather on him.

Kthanid
Home Elysium
Alignment Chaotic Good
Domains: Chaos, Good, Knowledge, Void
Subdomains: Azata, Dark Tapestry, Stars, Thought
Favored Weapon: Dagger
Symbol: A radiant eye with a rune around it.

That... Looks suspiciously like Desna. Swap out dagger and eye with a starknife and butterfly, and you got Desna.

Though, I do have a crack-theory that Desna is actually a Great Old One, from long before the creation of the dark tapestry. She kinda stumbled upon Golarion, and just said "Wow, that's neat." and just kinda stayed, because why not, and just kept being surprised how different the world was (Like us watching a game of Dwarf Fortress unfold).

If you look at a butterfly in the eye, it really does look really, REALLY freaky. She created stars and the heavens. She's aloof most of the time, kinda distant. She tends to not care about most stuff. She has Dreams as part of her portfolio- Like Cthulu has nightmares in his. Cthulu's colors are blue and black, desna's are blue and white.