1 cleric(war, life or tempest) + 19 bladelock warlock

[Spacehamster]

Is it just me or does for example Life, war and tempest cleric work pretty darn good for a bladelock?
You do not loose any invocations or ASI's and actually gain spell slots(2 level ones but still) compared to full warlock, with these 3 you also gain heavy armor and access to healing and bless which keys nicely to great weapon master.

Thoughts?

[Gtdead]

conc prof for a class that it's whole playstyle revolves around concentration spells is a big deal. also darkness is vastly superior to bless for a dedicated melee since it gives defensive advantage too.

that being said, if you can spare the wisdom the dip is okish. id consider paladin 2 as well

[Spacehamster]

conc prof for a class that it's whole playstyle revolves around concentration spells is a big deal. also darkness is vastly superior to bless for a dedicated melee since it gives defensive advantage too.

that being said, if you can spare the wisdom the dip is okish. id consider paladin 2 as well

Ohhhh I thought that darkness were not concentration but a one time deal where you put it down and it stays the duration. :)

Thought of paly but that delays his progression and removes an ASI which is not such a small deal when already a bit MAD. :)

Also would say if you look at it for only your char darkness is better, but bless affects 3 ppl and does not risk hindering allies, so they are good in different ways. :)

[MaxWilson]

Is it just me or does for example Life, war and tempest cleric work pretty darn good for a bladelock?
You do not loose any invocations or ASI's and actually gain spell slots(2 level ones but still) compared to full warlock, with these 3 you also gain heavy armor and access to healing and bless which keys nicely to great weapon master.

Thoughts?

It works pretty well, but so does Fighter 1. Fighter gets you a fighting style, Con save proficiency for concentration, and Second Wind. Cleric level gets you two minor spell slots for Hex, short-rest healing options, and access to Sanctuary/Bless/etc., plus possible synergy between Vampiric Touch and Disciple of Life (ask your DM).

Fighter is more popular but if you really want that Wisdom save proficiency and you don't plan on using many concentration spells as a Bladelock (e.g. Armor of Agathys more than Darkness/Hex/Vampiric Touch) I can definitely see some value to cleric too.

[Gtdead]

Ohhhh I thought that darkness were not concentration but a one time deal where you put it down and it stays the duration. :)

Thought of paly but that delays his progression and removes an ASI which is not such a small deal when already a bit MAD. :)

Also would say if you look at it for only your char darkness is better, but bless affects 3 ppl and does not risk hindering allies, so they are good in different ways. :)

Depends on the party, but even if bless nets a higher dpr boost and its safer, id still consider defensive advantage extremely useful for most fights, especially if your party is heavy on save abilities instead of attack rolls, or it has a lot of mobility.

I'm a huge fan of defensive setups. Way easier to manage because wrong decisions are less punishing.

For the paladin dip, the only consideration is that you can go nova easier. That's a lock's weak point. It's something I would consider over both fighter and cleric dip if the party called for it but it would be a last minute change. Not a planned build. Lock has a pretty punishing limit on resources. Any build that burns through them faster is situational, but compared to cleric dip, it gives about the same things. Heal, bless, command and 2 spell slots.

[MaxWilson]

Depends on the party, but even if bless nets a higher dpr boost and its safer, id still consider defensive advantage extremely useful for most fights, especially if your party is heavy on save abilities instead of attack rolls, or it has a lot of mobility.

I'm a huge fan of defensive setups. Way easier to manage because wrong decisions are less punishing.

Also, surprises are less punishing. Like, if you blow your biggest spell (Forcecage? Disintegrate?) on a bad guy who turns out to be an illusion (via Mislead or Projected Image), you can still recover and win with if you have defensive depth. But if you rely on racing for the most damage to see who hits zero HP first, losing that one round of action can mean that you die.

Also, it's generally easier in 5E to get 50% more defense than normal (Darkness, or Blur spell) a 50% more offense than normal, because offensive is tightly controlled by the game designers.

There's a meme that says "the best status condition to inflict on an enemy is Dead, therefore offense wins" but in 5E it isn't really true because neutralizing an enemy quickly is much, much easier than killing it. Even something as simple as Expeditious Retreat in 5E can win you all sorts of fights. E.g. a 2nd level wizard who tries to nova a CR 2 ogre to kill it instantaneously is going to lose; but a 2nd level wizard who uses Expeditious Retreat + Fire Bolt + Shield to kill a CR 2 ogre at range is probably going to win.

[BW022]

Is it just me or does for example Life, war and tempest cleric work pretty darn good for a bladelock?
You do not loose any invocations or ASI's and actually gain spell slots(2 level ones but still) compared to full warlock, with these 3 you also gain heavy armor and access to healing and bless which keys nicely to great weapon master.

Thoughts?

My last character did this. Cleric 1 (tempest) and then took warlock.

Like most one-level multi-classing, it was good for starting levels. The heavy armor, spell slots, healing, and domain ability were certainly good at starting levels, but by 6th-level, they weren't that effective and even 10th or so, you'd likely be thinking this was a hindrance vs. getting higher level warlock abilities sooner.

Ability stats you also pay big time for. You need a high strength (16+ for bladelock and the heavy armor). You likely want a good constitution, at least a 13 wisdom (likely a 14 for spells) and as high a charisma as you can get. Of course... you this means fairly flat scores, low intelligence and dexterity. I went non-variant human and accepted a 14 charisma. These scores will really hurt at mid-to-high levels when you either have to accept neither range (eldritch blast) or melee (strength) is that good, or else skip feats for repeated ability boosts.

Bladelock always suffers from the fact that eldritch blast is typically as good as melee attacks. I went polearm and eldritch blast did virtually the same damage... at range. Far easier to just blast something than melee with it. Also... many warlock abilities/combos make the cleric abilities somewhat moot. Fly + reach weapon (or eldritch blast) was far more effective than heavy armor. If they didn't have range or reach... didn't matter what armor you had. The domain ability plus armor of agyies was good at warding off low-level creatures, but past 6th, 2d8 once/day wasn't really worth not getting higher level spells, feats/ability increases, special abilities, extra slots, for an extra level.

I also found splitting strength and charisma to be counter productive. Elditch blast is so effective, yet you need a high charisma and you need a high strength for bladelock. Other characters focus on just one ability score and their main attacks were quickly +7 to attack, and +4 damage while I had two at +5 or +6 and +3 to damage.

By 10th, nothing the cleric gives you is really that worth it.

It isn't bad for starting, but by mid-levels, you'll wish you hadn't. I'd personally think about maybe a mountain dwarf, variant human, or just taking the feats to get medium or heavy armour.

[Spacehamster]

My last character did this. Cleric 1 (tempest) and then took warlock.

Like most one-level multi-classing, it was good for starting levels. The heavy armor, spell slots, healing, and domain ability were certainly good at starting levels, but by 6th-level, they weren't that effective and even 10th or so, you'd likely be thinking this was a hindrance vs. getting higher level warlock abilities sooner.

Ability stats you also pay big time for. You need a high strength (16+ for bladelock and the heavy armor). You likely want a good constitution, at least a 13 wisdom (likely a 14 for spells) and as high a charisma as you can get. Of course... you this means fairly flat scores, low intelligence and dexterity. I went non-variant human and accepted a 14 charisma. These scores will really hurt at mid-to-high levels when you either have to accept neither range (eldritch blast) or melee (strength) is that good, or else skip feats for repeated ability boosts.

Bladelock always suffers from the fact that eldritch blast is typically as good as melee attacks. I went polearm and eldritch blast did virtually the same damage... at range. Far easier to just blast something than melee with it. Also... many warlock abilities/combos make the cleric abilities somewhat moot. Fly + reach weapon (or eldritch blast) was far more effective than heavy armor. If they didn't have range or reach... didn't matter what armor you had. The domain ability plus armor of agyies was good at warding off low-level creatures, but past 6th, 2d8 once/day wasn't really worth not getting higher level spells, feats/ability increases, special abilities, extra slots, for an extra level.

I also found splitting strength and charisma to be counter productive. Elditch blast is so effective, yet you need a high charisma and you need a high strength for bladelock. Other characters focus on just one ability score and their main attacks were quickly +7 to attack, and +4 damage while I had two at +5 or +6 and +3 to damage.

By 10th, nothing the cleric gives you is really that worth it.

It isn't bad for starting, but by mid-levels, you'll wish you hadn't. I'd personally think about maybe a mountain dwarf, variant human, or just taking the feats to get medium or heavy armour.

But bladelock needs MC of some kind to shine as it does not really have any nova capabilities to speak of on its own, but yes a class that does not add to its MAD is preferable ofc, like 1-3 fighter or 2 paladin.