Help go from 5e to 3.5e

[deathbymanga]

So, a friend of mine is running a campaign this summer and I want to play a character I made for 5e in it. one problem, it's 3.5. So I was wondering if I could have some help.

The character is a Dwarven Dragonblood Sorcerer with some levels in Cleric. He wears heavy plate armor, weilds a mighty battle-axe, but fights his battles by first grappling his enemies, and then injuring them with Touch spells like Inflict Wounds and Shocking Grasp.

His biggest attibute is his collection of touch spells and his massive HP (achieved by abusing the Hill Dwarf and Dragonblood Sorcerer +1 HP to give a Sorcerer HP equal to a hearty Fighter).

I'm thinking maybe Cleric + Favoured Soul, but I don't know and could use some help

[Troacctid]

Dwarf, lots of HP, tanky, uses touch attacks to zap people?

Sounds like an Ironsoul Forgemaster to me. Vitality Belt gives you all the HPs, and Lightning Gauntlets give you an effect similar to Shocking Grasp, except it triggers whenever you hit with a touch attack, so you can grapple people and zap them at the same time, and it also triggers when you hit with a weapon, so your battleaxe gets the bonus damage too. You don't get spells per se, but from the sound of it, that's not actually the most important thing about the character, right?

[deathbymanga]

Dwarf, lots of HP, tanky, uses touch attacks to zap people?

Sounds like an Ironsoul Forgemaster to me. Vitality Belt gives you all the HPs, and Lightning Gauntlets give you an effect similar to Shocking Grasp, except it triggers whenever you hit with a touch attack, so you can grapple people and zap them at the same time, and it also triggers when you hit with a weapon, so your battleaxe gets the bonus damage too. You don't get spells per se, but from the sound of it, that's not actually the most important thing about the character, right?

the basic concept was a magical luchadore. a Wrestler who used magic as a means to grapple people. One of my favorite quotes from him was "Are you ready, for these twin pythons of 1.21 Gigawatts of pure POWAAAH", said in my most Macho-Man voice possible.

Variety of spells aren't that important, just that he does use magic while grappling.

[Afgncaap5]

A magical macho-man grappler?

I'm not going to go so far as to recommend the Rage Mage... I'm not... I'm really not... but I can't help but think thoughts that drift in that general direction.

Now with that out of the way... I'm gonna echo the suggestion of Ironsoul Forgemaster. It's technically possible to replicate a lot of the other things with typical Sorcerer and Cleric abilities, especially with ACFs and Feats, but I think the "feeling" of it is better replicated via Ironsoul. Or... possibly something else with meldshaping if you don't like the focus on making magical gear with essentia.

[deathbymanga]

A magical macho-man grappler?

I'm not going to go so far as to recommend the Rage Mage... I'm not... I'm really not... but I can't help but think thoughts that drift in that general direction.

Now with that out of the way... I'm gonna echo the suggestion of Ironsoul Forgemaster. It's technically possible to replicate a lot of the other things with typical Sorcerer and Cleric abilities, especially with ACFs and Feats, but I think the "feeling" of it is better replicated via Ironsoul. Or... possibly something else with meldshaping if you don't like the focus on making magical gear with essentia.

hmm, I guess I could go for the Totemist and enter Ironsoul. That Kraken Arm Totem is great for grapplers.

[Seppo87]

Probably a Sacred Fist with the right domains will be the most similar gameplay wise

[Gildedragon]

Cleric + Monk + Sacred Fist or
Sorcerer + Monk + Enlightened Fist + Feat: Ascetic Mage
(if PF stuff is allowed there are a couple grappler archetypes there)
OR
Sorcerer/Cleric + Unarmed Swordsage (Setting Sun) + Jade-Phoenix-Mage/RKV

[Red Fel]

So, a friend of mine is running a campaign this summer and I want to play a character I made for 5e in it. one problem, it's 3.5. So I was wondering if I could have some help.

The character is a Dwarven Dragonblood Sorcerer with some levels in Cleric. He wears heavy plate armor, weilds a mighty battle-axe, but fights his battles by first grappling his enemies, and then injuring them with Touch spells like Inflict Wounds and Shocking Grasp.

His biggest attibute is his collection of touch spells and his massive HP (achieved by abusing the Hill Dwarf and Dragonblood Sorcerer +1 HP to give a Sorcerer HP equal to a hearty Fighter).

I'm thinking maybe Cleric + Favoured Soul, but I don't know and could use some help


the basic concept was a magical luchadore. a Wrestler who used magic as a means to grapple people. One of my favorite quotes from him was "Are you ready, for these twin pythons of 1.21 Gigawatts of pure POWAAAH", said in my most Macho-Man voice possible.

Variety of spells aren't that important, just that he does use magic while grappling.

Fact is, you probably can do some Cleric-based stuff. In particular, a Cleric of Kord could go that route.

But as others have said, I'm inclined to go with Incarnum stuff. Totemist is fine if you want bare-shirted brute, and all, but consider Incarnate as well. Incarnate's the one that gets you Lightning Gauntlets, for instance. On the other hand, as far as a luchador goes, Totemist gives you actual masks, so that's a thing.

I might discourage Ironsoul Forgemaster, though. It sounds like you want a brawler and grappler, and the IF is a craftsman/heavily-armed-and-armored soldier. An Incarnate or Totemist gets you what you want for simplicity's sake.

Now, you might also consider a few PrCs. Keep in mind that 3.5 grappling has some very severe limitations, not the least of which are the "No" buttons like Freedom of Movement and Heart of Water. But there are some grappling-oriented classes. Reaping Mauler is a great one - you can grapple enemies into unconsciousness or even death. Black Blood Cultist allows you to brutalize your enemies with all of your natural weapons (and if you go Totemist, you'll have plenty) plus a rend, while grappling.

Also, if you're willing to dip Barbarian - and if you go with BBC, you need to - consider getting the Spirit Bear Totem ACF from Complete Champion. This ACF gives up Fast Movement for Improved Grab (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_improvedgrab&alpha=), which is just glorious for a grappler.

So, yeah. Dip Totemist or Incarnate, go Barbarian, grab fun stuff and become terror.

[deathbymanga]

Cleric + Monk + Sacred Fist or
Sorcerer + Monk + Enlightened Fist + Feat: Ascetic Mage
(if PF stuff is allowed there are a couple grappler archetypes there)
OR
Sorcerer/Cleric + Unarmed Swordsage (Setting Sun) + Jade-Phoenix-Mage/RKV

Jade Pheonix requires arcane spells, so I can't do Cleric, but another Wisdom Spellcaster + Swordsage does sound good

[Gildedragon]

Jade Pheonix requires arcane spells, so I can't do Cleric, but another Wisdom Spellcaster + Swordsage does sound good

That's why I slashed JPM with RKV. Ruby Knight Vindicator is a divine-initiator advancement class.

There are also some Barbarian wrestler archetypes and acfs both in 3.5 and PF

[Troacctid]

I might discourage Ironsoul Forgemaster, though. It sounds like you want a brawler and grappler, and the IF is a craftsman/heavily-armed-and-armored soldier. An Incarnate or Totemist gets you what you want for simplicity's sake.
Ironsoul Forgemaster is good off an Incarnate base because it buffs the chassis to medium BAB and d8 hit dice. The character is also heavily armored and a dwarf, so it fits well enough.

[deathbymanga]

Fact is, you probably can do some Cleric-based stuff. In particular, a Cleric of Kord could go that route.

But as others have said, I'm inclined to go with Incarnum stuff. Totemist is fine if you want bare-shirted brute, and all, but consider Incarnate as well. Incarnate's the one that gets you Lightning Gauntlets, for instance. On the other hand, as far as a luchador goes, Totemist gives you actual masks, so that's a thing.

I might discourage Ironsoul Forgemaster, though. It sounds like you want a brawler and grappler, and the IF is a craftsman/heavily-armed-and-armored soldier. An Incarnate or Totemist gets you what you want for simplicity's sake.

Now, you might also consider a few PrCs. Keep in mind that 3.5 grappling has some very severe limitations, not the least of which are the "No" buttons like Freedom of Movement and Heart of Water. But there are some grappling-oriented classes. Reaping Mauler is a great one - you can grapple enemies into unconsciousness or even death. Black Blood Cultist allows you to brutalize your enemies with all of your natural weapons (and if you go Totemist, you'll have plenty) plus a rend, while grappling.

Also, if you're willing to dip Barbarian - and if you go with BBC, you need to - consider getting the Spirit Bear Totem ACF from Complete Champion. This ACF gives up Fast Movement for Improved Grab (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_improvedgrab&alpha=), which is just glorious for a grappler.

So, yeah. Dip Totemist or Incarnate, go Barbarian, grab fun stuff and become terror.

Hmm, both Totemist and Incarnate provide Soulmelds that benefit me in grappling. Hmm, ok, what about a 1 lvl dip in Incarnate to grab Lightning gauntlets, since it's Chakra Bind power isn't inherently beneficial to grappling, focus on Totemist, grab a few lvls in Spiritual Bear Barbarian, and go Totem Rager?

[Willie the Duck]

As an alternative (simpler?) option, what about a Duskblade with an unarmed strike (just improved unarmed strike, monk levels, or a ToB unarmed build), along with improved grapple? Duskblades are notorious for charging their attacks with shocking grasps.

If you want to include cleric as well, see if the DM allows PrC re-skinning, and make a Duskblade/anti-Ur Priest/Mystic Theurge. A little MAD, but the Dwarven Cha penalty is ok, and the Dwarven CON makes up for a lot of MT D4s for hp.

[Troacctid]

If you only need one soulmeld from a given class, you can get it from the Shape Soulmeld feat. This doesn't work well for Vitality Belt though, since it gives you HP based on your meldshaper level, so you need actual levels in the class. Vitality Belt and Lightning Gauntlets are both Incarnate-only, which is why I initially suggested Incarnate—neither of them really has a Totemist equivalent. (Totem Avatar gives you some extra HP, but it's much weaker.)

Both Incarnate and Totemist also have class features that boost the essentia capacity of their soulmelds. Incarnates get +1 capacity to all Incarnate soulmelds at level 3. Totemists get +1 capacity to whatever soulmeld is bound to their totem chakra.

[deathbymanga]

If you only need one soulmeld from a given class, you can get it from the Shape Soulmeld feat. This doesn't work well for Vitality Belt though, since it gives you HP based on your meldshaper level, so you need actual levels in the class. Vitality Belt and Lightning Gauntlets are both Incarnate-only, which is why I initially suggested Incarnate—neither of them really has a Totemist equivalent. (Totem Avatar gives you some extra HP, but it's much weaker.)

Both Incarnate and Totemist also have class features that boost the essentia capacity of their soulmelds. Incarnates get +1 capacity to all Incarnate soulmelds at level 3. Totemists get +1 capacity to whatever soulmeld is bound to their totem chakra.

neither Lightning Gauntlets nor Vitality Belt need to be Bond to the body, but Kraken Mantle needs to be bond to get the bonus to grapples and the constrict power.

But, can I even have Lightning Guantlets and Kraken Mantle on, but only Bind Kraken? or do I need that double soulmeld feat?

Ok, so, the two builds that this seems to work is Swordsage+Cleric and Incarnate/Totemist+Barbarian?

[Red Fel]

neither Lightning Gauntlets nor Vitality Belt need to be Bond to the body, but Kraken Mantle needs to be bond to get the bonus to grapples and the constrict power.

But, can I even have Lightning Guantlets and Kraken Mantle on, but only Bind Kraken? or do I need that double soulmeld feat?

Shaping and binding a soulmeld are two separate things. Your meldshaper class progression tells you how many of that class' soulmelds you can have shaped, and how many bound. For example, a 6th-level Incarnate can have 4 soulmelds shaped at once, two of them bound to chakra points.

The Shape Soulmeld feat allows you to choose one soulmeld and shape it, as a meldshaper of half of your class level. It does not give you the power to bind it.

So let's say you took levels in Totemist, in order to be able to both shape and bind the Kraken Mantle, and the Shape Soulmeld (Lightning Gauntlets) feat. Kraken Mantle is shaped to your arms chakra; to bind it, you need to be at least Totemist 9 (to unlock arms, brow, and shoulder chakras). Lightning Gauntlets are shaped to your hands chakra, and do not conflict with your arms chakra, so you can have both.

Be aware that the use of Lightning Gauntlets isn't perfect. It requires a standard action melee touch attack, which deals 1d6+Xd6 electricity damage, where X is essentia invested. That doesn't mean you get to add it to an attack - it's specifically its own standard action, and thus incompatible with other standard actions. So it's not clear whether you could use it while grappling.

Other grappling-oriented soulmeld options include the Mantle of Flame (Incarnate, shoulders slot), which deals 1d6+Xd6 fire damage when you are struck; Mauling Gauntlets (Soulborn, arms or hands slot), gain a bonus to Str checks; Necrocarnum Shroud (Incarnate (Evil) or Soulborn, soul or waist slot), gain a +1 bonus to attacks and damage when a living creature is injured near you, if bound to the waist, any living creature adjacent to you must save or become shaken (which means he takes penalties); Necrocarnum Vestments (Incarnate (Evil) or Soulborn, heart or waist), gain cold resistance, if bound to the waist, any living creature adjacent to you must save or take cold damage; Rageclaws (Totemist, hands), continue fighting at negative hit points, if bound to the totem, you gain claws that can be used in a grapple without penalty; Totem Avatar (Totemist, various), gain bonus hit points, if bound to the arms, gain Improved Grapple.

Just a few extra options. Keep in mind that, of those, Kraken Mantle and Totem Avatar (arms) are mutually exclusive unless you have the Double Chakra feat.

[deathbymanga]

Shaping and binding a soulmeld are two separate things. Your meldshaper class progression tells you how many of that class' soulmelds you can have shaped, and how many bound. For example, a 6th-level Incarnate can have 4 soulmelds shaped at once, two of them bound to chakra points.

The Shape Soulmeld feat allows you to choose one soulmeld and shape it, as a meldshaper of half of your class level. It does not give you the power to bind it.

So let's say you took levels in Totemist, in order to be able to both shape and bind the Kraken Mantle, and the Shape Soulmeld (Lightning Gauntlets) feat. Kraken Mantle is shaped to your arms chakra; to bind it, you need to be at least Totemist 9 (to unlock arms, brow, and shoulder chakras). Lightning Gauntlets are shaped to your hands chakra, and do not conflict with your arms chakra, so you can have both.

Be aware that the use of Lightning Gauntlets isn't perfect. It requires a standard action melee touch attack, which deals 1d6+Xd6 electricity damage, where X is essentia invested. That doesn't mean you get to add it to an attack - it's specifically its own standard action, and thus incompatible with other standard actions. So it's not clear whether you could use it while grappling.

Other grappling-oriented soulmeld options include the Mantle of Flame (Incarnate, shoulders slot), which deals 1d6+Xd6 fire damage when you are struck; Mauling Gauntlets (Soulborn, arms or hands slot), gain a bonus to Str checks; Necrocarnum Shroud (Incarnate (Evil) or Soulborn, soul or waist slot), gain a +1 bonus to attacks and damage when a living creature is injured near you, if bound to the waist, any living creature adjacent to you must save or become shaken (which means he takes penalties); Necrocarnum Vestments (Incarnate (Evil) or Soulborn, heart or waist), gain cold resistance, if bound to the waist, any living creature adjacent to you must save or take cold damage; Rageclaws (Totemist, hands), continue fighting at negative hit points, if bound to the totem, you gain claws that can be used in a grapple without penalty; Totem Avatar (Totemist, various), gain bonus hit points, if bound to the arms, gain Improved Grapple.

Just a few extra options. Keep in mind that, of those, Kraken Mantle and Totem Avatar (arms) are mutually exclusive unless you have the Double Chakra feat.

Totemist:
Kraken Mantle(arms)
Totem Avatar(arms)
Rageclaws(hands)

Incarnate:
Lightning Guantlets
Vitality Belt
Mantle of Flames
Necrocarnum Shroud((Evil) Waist or Soul)
Necrocarnum Vestments((evil) Waist or Heart)

Soulborn:
Mauling Guantlets
Necrocarnum Shroud(Waist or Soul)
Necrocarnum Vestments(Waist or Heart)

Mauling Guantlets isn't that great a soulmeld, especially since I can easily get my hands of +2 Strength Magic Items that can take that slot. The only real advantage to going Soulborn would be getting my hands on the Necrocarnum Soulmelds without being evil. That evil part is also a huge detracter from going Incarnate, since their the only Soulmelds that need to be bound.

So I have 3 Soulmelds in Totemist, 3 in Incarnate, and 1/3 in Soulborn.

I'm thinking 2 levels into Incarnate, followed by 1 lvl dip in Barbarian and going Totemist for 4 lvls(grab Cobalt Rage at 4th lvl). After that, Totem Rager for 10 lvls. Dunno about the last 3 lvls, but this seems to work.

Would I need to go Human for this, or do multiclassing rules work enough for this?

[Troacctid]

A split of 2/1/4 would incur multiclass penalties without the 4 as your favored class, yes.

Having only two levels in Incarnate drastically reduces the value of Vitality Belt, since its bonus HP is based on your Incarnate level. At that point it's probably not even worth shaping.

[deathbymanga]

A split of 2/1/4 would incur multiclass penalties without the 4 as your favored class, yes.

Having only two levels in Incarnate drastically reduces the value of Vitality Belt, since its bonus HP is based on your Incarnate level. At that point it's probably not even worth shaping.

then how about 1/1/5