Make them stop......flying

[Starchild7309]

So my party is a mixture of classes: mostly 9th level, sorcerer, paladin, ranger/fighter, fighter/sorcerer, and fighter/wizard. How do we keep dragons from getting away. I mean seriously, between legendary resistance and a dragons strength save, every dragon we face has gotten low and bailed on us.

What can we do?

[hymer]

Get through their legendary saves quicker than you've done so far; hit deliberately for that part. Then go CC.
Alternatively, of course, use spells it gets no save against. Wall of Force is pretty brutal.

Edit: In 3.5, knocking a flyer prone meant knocking it to the ground. The DM may not agree in 5e, but it's worth looking into.
2nd edit: Look up Earthbind in the EEPC.

[Temperjoke]

Can you take out their wings? Like focusing your attacks on their wings to damage them enough to prevent them from flying away? It would limit their escape options at least.

[Ninja_Prawn]

On a more strategic level, can you force them to give battle in terrain that favours you? Maybe lure them into a cave or gorge?

[Shining Wrath]

You should get full XP for driving a monster into flight, and be able to loot that sweet sweet draconic loot. What's the problem? Do you need actual dragon body parts for some reason?

[Democratus]

Face them in their lair. Most dragons will fight much harder to protect their hoard.

When absolutely determined to get a dragon corpse you will need an epic amount of prep and planning. Hire a pile of henchmen to throw nets over all of the escape paths from the dragon's lair once you start the battle. Or you could force the dragon to come to you by stealing its eggs.

Actually killing a powerful dragon should be a huge effort - not just a skirmish. It will be a moment to remember for years to come.

[BW022]

Dragons should be hard to finally kill. Yes... they have the ability to fly away and intelligence to do so.

However... smart characters should realize this and plan for it. Having to plan, possibly collect things, possibly try multiple times, etc. can make finally killing it extremely satisfying.

a) Attack the dragon where it can't fly away. Underground caves, lairs, or ruins are often a good place. You might have to lure the dragon there by maybe hiding a pile of treasure there.

b) Attack the dragon where it won't fly away. A lair with eggs, young, or something it might try to defend extremely well -- say its treasure pile.

c) Don't allow it to fly away. There are things which may prevent flying -- spells (web, hold monster, entangle, entangling strike, various wall spells, slow, etc.), physical objects (nets, chains, ropes, etc.), summoned flying creatures to block its escape, collapse a tunnel, etc. Many may only last a round or two, but you can repeat and maybe buy enough time to do some damage.

d) Follow it. Spells like fly, flying mounts, carpets of flying, etc. and ranged attacks are certainly within the reach of a 9th-level party. If it is damaged enough... it might not be able to get away, get out of range faster enough, or those flying can block it long enough for ranged attacks to finish it off.

e) Get on it. Dangerous, but certain rogues or athletic fighters could pull it off. The dragon might have to waste a round getting them off and (depending on the character) it might take a few rounds. Something like feather fall is certainly recommended.

f) Have summoned flyers to harass it. Conjure animals, conjure elementals, etc. and send them after the dragon once it flees. If it is low enough, they might drop it or else slow it for you to stay in range.

g) Go where it is going. The dragon might have a nearby alternate lair or hunting ground where it needs to hide in order to rest up. Locate creature, locate object (arrow fired into it), clairvoyance, scrying, etc. or mundane means such as a flying familiar, polymorph/wildshape, animal messenger, or just observing the dragon's habits over several days/weeks and you likely know where it might fly to and hide out. You can travel there before the end of the day -- flying mounts, horses, teleportation circle, etc. and finish it off. You might even arrive ahead of time before and ambush it.

h) Fill it full of damage over time spells or abilities.

If they players don't have access to some of these spells/items... then a good time to go on quests to gain them. Scrolls of clairvoyance, locate creature, scrying, summon elementals, etc. should be within reach from friendly churches, wizard's guilds, leaders, etc. wanted to get rid of the dragon... or unfriendly groups wanting their own quests, favors, parts of the dragon, specific treasure from the dragon's horde, etc.

[SharkForce]

if they are out of legendary saves when they start running, web *can* be cast in the air and will last for a round.

[Spiritchaser]

Shore up defences survive and wear them down a bit at lower than optimal dpr, then nail them with a damage spoke. Dragons are smart, but they are arrogant. The fact that a party is doing less damage than they "should" pits the dragon against itsself, ego vs. Wisdom.

Not all parties can arrange a damage spike but...

[Demonslayer666]

"Do we have bows?" Everyone in your party should have a ranged weapon, and everyone should get at least one round of ranged attacks as it flees, plus you get an OA as it leaves your threatened area.

One fly spell at that level will cover 3 party members (using a 5th level slot). Granted, it is not as fast as a dragon flies, but it will keep the archer in range for several rounds.

[hymer]

"Do we have bows?" Everyone in your party should have a ranged weapon, and everyone should get at least one round of ranged attacks as it flees

In fact, dragons have a flight speed of 80' IIRC, for a total of 160' flight per round. A longbow has a range of 600'. So three rounds of fire is more likely. But this, of course, is in case of a fairly open area. Pass a ridge, fly above a canopy, around a large building, and it may be out of sight much before this.

[Biggstick]

"Do we have bows?" Everyone in your party should have a ranged weapon, and everyone should get at least one round of ranged attacks as it flees, plus you get an OA as it leaves your threatened area.

One fly spell at that level will cover 3 party members (using a 5th level slot). Granted, it is not as fast as a dragon flies, but it will keep the archer in range for several rounds.

If it's simply flying away and not using magic, someone in your party having the Sentinel feat and being able to hit every time on that opportunity attack would keep it from flying away. This is keeping in mind that the DM doesn't ready a move action to occur after the dragon's turn.

[Falcon X]

Back in my day (3.5) we just shot that flying beast full of Rays of Clumsiness. Couple shots and it was down.

[Innocent_bystan]

If you can get within 30 ft of the Dragon, then Tasha's Hideous Laughter can force the dragon down. Ready the spell for when the dragon dives in and watch it create a little crater.

[Draconi Redfir]

At first i thought this was a thread asking how to make the PARTY stop flying to solve all their problems. and i was going to suggest introducing even more dragons to hog the skies.

this is evidently not the case. and i'm not sure how to fix it... Get a super god-teir arcane archer elf who shoots giant arrows the size of small trees that explode upon imact?


that's what my party did.

[MaxWilson]

So my party is a mixture of classes: mostly 9th level, sorcerer, paladin, ranger/fighter, fighter/sorcerer, and fighter/wizard. How do we keep dragons from getting away. I mean seriously, between legendary resistance and a dragons strength save, every dragon we face has gotten low and bailed on us.

What can we do?

Fight them in their lair, so that if they run away, you steal all their treasure.

Yes, this is harder.

[Starchild7309]

Lots of suggestions...some better than others. I should point out that at this point we are well known enemies of the Cult of the Dragon. The dragons we have been facing have been ambushing us. We are pretty sure someone is feeding the cult info about our movement, but until we can find out who we are dealing with ambushing us. We are treasure starved because as we keep getting beat up our dm keeps giving us treasure like tapestries. Only so many 200lb tapestries you can carry through a swamp. We just want to keep one down so we can finish it

[bardo]

You want Dimension Door. "You arrive at exactly the spot desired". It can put you and a friend on top of the dragon up to 500 feet away. Make sure your friend has a two handed weapon and action surge. The rest of the party can give chase by other means while the dragon has to deal with you two pests stabbing its spine. Every round it takes an action to deal with you is a round it's not using its full movement to get away and the rest of the party stays in range.

Alternatively, setup a teleportation circle at the fjords. They are always pinning for the fjords.

Bardo.

[hymer]

Alternatively, setup a teleportation circle at the fjords. They are always pinning for the fjords.

Pining for the fjords? What kind of talk is that?

[Lindonius]

3 words....

Enlarged Grapple Bard.

[MaxWilson]

3 words....

Enlarged Grapple Bard.

Also: Polymorph (Giant Crocodile)

[RickAllison]

3 words....

Enlarged Grapple Bard.

Doesn't work against Ancients, but it would work for Adults. And even for Ancients, it still allows you to attempt to Climb Onto a Bigger Creature (from the DMG). That is a contested Check between your choice of Athletics or Acrobatics and the Acrobatics of the dragon (maybe Athletics? I'm AFDMG). It doesn't help him stay in the ground, but you stick with him. And, if I'm right about it being Acrobatics for him, that means it is probably a +11 or more with advantage against a +2 that he spends an action doing.

Oh, and make sure your Bard is extra chunky. Specifically, 450+ pounds. remember that carrying capacity a maximum of 30*Strength*size multiplier (8 for Gargantuan). That means your really big dragons have 3600 pounds of capacity. Enlarge multiplies your weight by 8. 450*8 is, you guessed it, 3600 pounds. Remember that while his pushing/dragging limit is twice this, his speed then drops to 5'. Suddenly, flight isn't seeming so bad, is it.

Dragon: "I fly away as fast as possible!"
DM: "You fly 10'. You are still within jumping distance."

[Lindonius]

Also: Polymorph (Giant Crocodile)


Doesn't work against Ancients, but it would work for Adults. And even for Ancients, it still allows you to attempt to Climb Onto a Bigger Creature (from the DMG). That is a contested Check between your choice of Athletics or Acrobatics and the Acrobatics of the dragon (maybe Athletics? I'm AFDMG). It doesn't help him stay in the ground, but you stick with him. And, if I'm right about it being Acrobatics for him, that means it is probably a +11 or more with advantage against a +2 that he spends an action doing.

Oh, and make sure your Bard is extra chunky. Specifically, 450+ pounds. remember that carrying capacity a maximum of 30*Strength*size multiplier (8 for Gargantuan). That means your really big dragons have 3600 pounds of capacity. Enlarge multiplies your weight by 8. 450*8 is, you guessed it, 3600 pounds. Remember that while his pushing/dragging limit is twice this, his speed then drops to 5'. Suddenly, flight isn't seeming so bad, is it.

Dragon: "I fly away as fast as possible!"
DM: "You fly 10'. You are still within jumping distance."

Giant Constrictor Snakes and Octopuses work too. Either from Moon Druid or polymorph. I think the key thing that needs to emphasised here is that dragons can be grappled. Quite easily if you prepare for it with buffs for your grappler and hexes/cutting words/portents/(un)lucky for the dragon.

[MaxWilson]

Giant Constrictor Snakes and Octopuses work too. Either from Moon Druid or polymorph. I think the key thing that needs to emphasised here is that dragons can be grappled. Quite easily if you prepare for it with buffs for your grappler and hexes/cutting words/portents/(un)lucky for the dragon.

Yep. Technically even a CR 1/4 Constrictor Snake (of which you get eight from a single Conjure Animals spell) can grapple an ancient dragon by strict RAW; but I think no sane DM is likely to let animals violate the normal size rules for grappling.

But yes, dragons can be grappled, and grappling bypasses Legendary Resistance because it's an ability check and not a saving throw.

Telekinesis works on non-Gargantuan dragons. I believe Bigby's Hand works too, possibly even on Gargantuan dragons, but I'm AFB and can't check.

[comk59]

A pile of gold, a box, and a stick tied to a string.

[Vogonjeltz]

So my party is a mixture of classes: mostly 9th level, sorcerer, paladin, ranger/fighter, fighter/sorcerer, and fighter/wizard. How do we keep dragons from getting away. I mean seriously, between legendary resistance and a dragons strength save, every dragon we face has gotten low and bailed on us.

What can we do?

Climb Aboard if they're large or bigger. (DMG combat option)
Fly (Spellcasters) (risky if the Dragon turns around on you)
Get flying mounts (risky)
Use ranged weapons (Dragon's aren't fast enough to get out of bow range for at least a couple of rounds).
Grapple/Restrain/Paralyze the dragon Anything that prevents it from taking off. Maybe you deliberately target the wings to try and shear them off, preventing flight.
Fight the dragon in a location where they can't flee as easily (underground, for example). This is probably the least likely as most dragons would choose to live in a location they can easily leave.

[Slipperychicken]

You should get full XP for driving a monster into flight, and be able to loot that sweet sweet draconic loot. What's the problem? Do you need actual dragon body parts for some reason?

I agree with this. If you beat the monster so bad he runs home crying for mommy, then you should get the full XP for him.

[JellyPooga]

We are treasure starved because as we keep getting beat up our dm keeps giving us treasure like tapestries. Only so many 200lb tapestries you can carry through a swamp.

A swamp-soaked tapestry or two sounds like just the sort of thing you need to pin a dragon to the ground; a large, wet, smelly piece of very heavy cloth is better than a net for entangling wings, the weight of it will impact his (otherwise non-existent) encumbrance and it's fire-resistant too!

Maybe your GM is just trying to give you the tools to beat these flying pests? :smallamused: All you need to do is rig up some kind of swampy-tapestry-deployment-mechanism...a catapult might do it.

[Slipperychicken]

We are treasure starved because as we keep getting beat up our dm keeps giving us treasure like tapestries. Only so many 200lb tapestries you can carry through a swamp. We just want to keep one down so we can finish it

Sounds like you need some mounts in your life. Just slap those tapestries on a mule or three and have them carry those puppies home. They're 8 gold each, but make sure to keep those mules alive; they can't carry your stuff if they're dead.

Also, get some bigger bags or cloths to wrap your treasure in so they're not as likely to accrue damage from the elements.

[Tanarii]

You should get full XP for driving a monster into flight, and be able to loot that sweet sweet draconic loot. What's the problem? Do you need actual dragon body parts for some reason?


I agree with this. If you beat the monster so bad he runs home crying for mommy, then you should get the full XP for him.If the Dragons (and it sounds like there are multiple) are coming in hot for a flying ambush, then making a tactical retreat, then repeat over and over again to drain party resources, that's not really driving it into flight / runs home crying for mommy. It's tactically smart on the dragons' part, and the party still hasn't overcome any obstacle to deserve XP.

(Edit: To be fair, that detail as to what exactly was going down was after Shining Wrath's post, and I'm sure you were responding in order. I was just chiming in.)

[Pope Scarface]

Sounds like they are in the wilderness, and unprepared. Only the paladin can really switch out for 'the right spell', since the wizard would need to have it in his book already, and the others are known casters. I did not find any great solutions on the level 9 paladins options for this though.

If the DM is running this as a tactical challenge, you're pretty hosed. If the dragons have personalities you can work with, you might feign weakness to get them to press the attack instead of flee.

[Knaight]

The dragons keep ambushing you, but do you know if they're waiting for you to go to their picked terrain, or just dropping out of the sky where you are? If they're in the habit of landing, then depending on the swamp you might have some fun options. Peat bogs, tar pits, and other such things can ruin anyone's day.

[Alerad]

Battlemaster - knocking a flying creature prone does drop them to the ground. Yes, the Battlemaster CAN do this with a bow, it's not restricted to melee only.

Sentinel.

Wizards and Fighters - Reduce the dragon and/ or Enlarge the fighter, then grapple.

Wizards - hold monster, earthbind, maximillian's earthen grasp, web, entangle.

Net - if your DM is any good it won't work, but keep in mind.

Command - Descend! Land!

Suggestion.

Fly.

[JakOfAllTirades]

A pile of gold, a box, and a stick tied to a string.

How about a Glyph of Warding with a Force Cage spell?

We're gonna need a bigger box!

[Demonslayer666]

Lots of suggestions...some better than others. I should point out that at this point we are well known enemies of the Cult of the Dragon. The dragons we have been facing have been ambushing us. We are pretty sure someone is feeding the cult info about our movement, but until we can find out who we are dealing with ambushing us. We are treasure starved because as we keep getting beat up our dm keeps giving us treasure like tapestries. Only so many 200lb tapestries you can carry through a swamp. We just want to keep one down so we can finish it

It might be a better tactic to stop being a target for ambushes. If you are well known, they will keep sending stuff after you. Leave a false trail by spreading rumors you are headed to X, when you really go to Y. Hire people to pretend to be you. Travel at night.

If you aren't in a hurry, stop and set up a trap for them.