Singadin - build concept

[Moosoculars]

This is a character concept for a Gish build. The Singadin.

High elf
Paladin 2 / wizard (bladesinger) 6

At level 8 you have 2 attacks (three with haste), spell slots as a 7th level caster with cure wounds for healing. Ritual casting for utility. Wizard spells for buff, blast or de buff as desired.

Take the mobility feat at 4th. This gives you a very good speed. 30 base + 15 blade song + 10 mobility + 10 longstider x2 haste for 130 move. This allows you to run in attack and find cover most rounds.

Add on an abundance of spell slots for smite and you can hit hard when you need to

Ac is also good with studded, defence style, Dex and int to ac and a shield spell if needed.

You are a glass cannon, and MAD but you have excellent versatility.

I would be interested in any thoughts to progress the character, though wizard 18 seems reasonable.

Thanks

[Corran]

If you are going with a lot of wizard levels, might I suggest at some point that you take one level in warlock. That would give you access to use armor of agathys with your spell slots. Upcast it with your higher level slots, to add durability and dpr.

[Gtdead]

I think that in theory it sounds like an awesome idea but it doesn't really play that well in practice.

First things first:
To pull this off you need 13 in STR, CHA, INT, and then you need to pump DEX while keeping your CON relevant due to this being a melee build.
For a standard point buy, the best I can come up with is

STR 13
DEX 17
CON 12
INT 13
WIS 8
CHA 13

Counting on a +1 DEX +1 INT at lvl 6.
If you opt for 14 int and mobile at lvl 6, you will have to waste a point for an odd con score. But lets say that this is the case. Which brings us to the second point.

Second:
With a longbow (elves have proficiency) you will deal the same base dpr up to lvl 15 (when bs starts to add int to his melee attacks) so I don't see any point to actually get mobile till level 14. After all your playstyle is hit n run. Better to do it at range. This speaks to the efficiency of the build at lower levels. You essentially invest in a feat that doesn't really give you any boost at all. Sure attacking with 2 hands doesn't play well with bladesinging but you are a hit n run archer, you don't care that much for that +2 AC. 60 speed is going to be more than enough to support your playstyle at range.

Third:

Nova potential.

That 84.6 dpr you can pull of in a "all stars align" scenario isn't that impressive really. A deadly encounter for a party of 4 at lvl 8 is a 12 CR monster. I think it's fair to assume that you will have to deal with something that will have an AC of 15 at the least. You are expected to deal 55~ dpr with your +6 hit.

A TRex will deal 45~

Trex needs one level 4 spell slot. Your smite nova will probably take 1 lvl 3 slot for haste and 2 smites at lvl 3 and 4 spell slots. Also Trex has the potential for advantage through his bite, raising his dpr to 56~ on subsequent turns while your build can't sustain these numbers beyond the first turn.

Trex has +4 to con, while your build has +1. If polymorph conc is broken the wizard can still act, while if haste concentration is broken you lose a turn. It's all around a safer option and if Trex can act for 2 turns, he already paid back the spell slot investment.

In addition, you can do this with a Cleric 1/Wizard x build, so you can have access to cure wounds since it's an important aspect of your build.

However if you roll amazing stats, it's worth a shot. In fact a 2 level paladin dip is almost always worth it for melee oriented casters with lucky rolls.

[Moosoculars]

You raise some interesting points and these do reflect some of the weaknesses that I had identified in the OP. I think some of these can be mitigated.

OK your first point - MADness

I think the best 27 point buy for this char is

Str 13
Dex 16
Con 13
Int 14
Wis 8
Cha 13

This builds in the +2 Dex and +1 Int from the High elf. It meets all of the multiclassing requirements and by leaving a 13 in con means that Res (com) Feat at a later level will boost this to the 14. This also gives you the 14 Int for better AC (when bladesinging) and saves / to hit with your spells.

Second Longbow and Mobile
Well the first reason for Melee rather than Longbow (which this char can do as you point out) is that it allows for a smite which ranged attacks can't do. This means that I can add on a divine smite to put enemies down when I want to.

Mobile seems to thematically fit with a rapid elvish swordfighter and it allows him to dance in cast booming blade and then dance out and out of range and into good cover (most times). If the enemy follows then the booming blade will activate for more damage leaving your opponent with a nasty choice to make each round.

As the character is not so reliant on what weapon does the damage a whip is a good addition to the arsenal so when creatures (without 10ft reach or better) ready actions to attack on my pass I can attack and stay out of range.

So Booming blade with longstrider and the bladesong gives you move of 65 for a first level slot. This is pretty much at will and so a standard attack would be 3D8+3 with a further 2D8 if they move. Which if they want to get close enough to wail on you they kind of have to.

Point 3 Nova
I think your numbers on the Nova are about right. I make it 85.5 average damage and it burns 2 4th and 1 third level slot (not including the haste or longstrider). I can see that this is a heavy price to pay and not something to be done regularly. However you can do it if you really need to. If the party really needs to deal some damage and put something down then this character can have a good go.

The +6 to hit is a problem I will agree with that. Other than a handy bless spell from the cleric or some bardic inspiration I am not sure how you can fix that until you get to 10th and 11th for the ASI for +2dex and increased prof. A magic weapon would help.


Overall thoughts.

What you have to remember that this character is first and foremost a wizard. But can throw down a much needed heal when he has to (or have his familiar deliver it). Can hit hard if he needs to (not all the time granted) and can polymorph himself or others into a Trex if he wants. Has a very reasonable AC most of the time which can be augmented with Shield. and with his rapid movement he can keep out of trouble (or get into it) as he needs

[CNagy]

Honestly, I don't see what Paladin is bringing to this build that some flavor of Cleric can't do more easily. Sure, you lose Divine Smite but if you are first and foremost a Wizard then Divine Smiting away your spell slots is a losing proposition. You gain an additional level as a spellcaster; a major bonus if you focus on casting spells. A Life Cleric has you covered better on dropping heals than a Paladin. And you cut quite a bit of the MADness out, needing only to hit a 13 Wis instead of 13 Str and Cha.

[Specter]

I'd go Fighter 2 instead of Paladin 2; that gives you up to three dump stats (ST WI CH), whereas you only get one with Paladin (WI). Considering you're already losing an ASI for the multiclass and pumping two stats, that would mean no feats and mediocre numbers. Also, that 1st Paladin level is bad on so many levels.

[PotatoGolem]

Does blade singer limit what armor you can use? If not, you may be better served with a strength build and full plate so that you can dump dex

[Moosoculars]

Yes blade singing is light only and no shield

[djreynolds]

Paladin is just fine. Now you can smite when in melee. This build is just fine.

[Daehron]

While not "optimal" in a number of aspects, it has flavor.

It is arguable that a 2BS/xEK would be a better mix for optimizing mobility aspects of your concept, but you loose the smiting.

[Gtdead]

OK your first point - MADness

Yea, I considered the 13 Con array with res feat. Res CON is always a great choice, but I feel that it will come WAAAAY too late if at all. Personally I favor maxing int/dex over resilient con. After all as a BS you have the option to blow a spell slot against a hard save, and there is always absorb elements for these pesky breaths. Along with your good dex saves, you should be fine even without res con.


Second Longbow and Mobile
Against the big bad, you can just use a rapier and go a bit kamikaze. I mean, you already have fairly good defenses for this. Shield, +2 from Haste, +2 from Bladesinging bringing it up to a possible 25-26. If you just want to add a smite every now and then, you can use a melf's minute meteors instead. It's more damage per slot, taking the miss chance into account. The only thing you really lose is the chance to smite on a crit. It's fun to do, but it most likely will result in an overkill, unless you are lucky and crit the big bad when you need to.


Point 3 Nova
Well, at least if everything hits, it's going to be a good story ;p .
That's why I suggest going with bow early. So you can pump that dex faster instead of spending a slot to mobile.


Overall thoughts.

The real problem with considering this build a full wizard, is that 14 INT. Which is here to stay unless you decide to forgo dex ASIs. It would work if you decide to progress to a full blown wizard at higher levels, but if you do that at the expense of melee stats, then the whole 2 lvl dip will be for nothing.. Even my Pal2/Sorc x build is counting on running around with a wished simulacrum at max level and throwing firebolts. Screw melee ;p , it's fine for low levels but too risky at high levels for my taste.

Other than that, yes it's probably one of the most versatile builds I've seen. But with pointbuy it seems like it suffers too much from poor stats progression to worth the trouble :/