OOTS #469 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

Monday's comic is up now.

[Guzame]

Heh,great comic today.
Too bad that the Eye of Fear and Flame is gone.
Poor Skullsy.

[Lusorius]

LOL! Worth the wait!

[Glorfindel]

Great comic, despite your illness!


Or,
:vaarsuvius: Fortunately, the quality of the comics is inversely proportional to the physical condition of the author

[DMD85]

poor skullsy :(
finally stands up for himself and gets smashed to bits

[PlasticSoldier]

Its Grrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaat!

[Dagoth]

Awwww, poor Skullsy.

Great comic! Worth the wait.

[whorrak]

Great as always. I knew it's worth waiting. What is the time in U.S., BTW? :smallbiggrin:

Time to read web-comics at work.

[Kesnit]

Aww... I was hoping the EoFaF would stick around. He was perfect for everyone's favorite psychopath. :smallfrown: Would have loved to have seen :belkar: go "sexy shoesless god of war" on those hobgoblins. :smalltongue:

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Awww... I was hoping Belkar wold be able to keep his new toy!

Poop.

Ninja'd!

[Dinkyass]

Nooooo!!! Skullsy!!! Whyyyy???

[StickMan]

Anyone notice the Evasion thing or was that just me.

[Firest]

Great as always. I knew it's worth waiting. What is the time in U.S., BTW? :smallbiggrin:



6:10 in the morning.


I'm honestly surprised the skull held on this long...

[Beittil]

How did he get to evade that Fireball anyway? :P

[Senex]

Being Belkar's personal emergency chamberpot certainly qualifies as 'a fate worse than death'.

[Etheric]

How did he get to evade that Fireball anyway? :P

9th level rangers get evasion according to the SRD

http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/ranger.html

Who knew?

[AtomicKitKat]

Heh. Silly Belkar. Evasion is for 9th level Rangers!:smalltongue:

[Ranek the Bold]

Good one, Rich. Hope you finally shake that bug. Summer illness are just such a beating!! Any other word on SOD?

[Haruspex]

Anyone catch the reference (if there was one) in the first panel? Sounds like a TV show of some sort.

Pity about the skull though. That should satisfy the OMGZ!Illegal! crowd.

[Fabio_MP]

poor eye of fear and flame....

and poor Roy.... hope they don't get too distracted

nice strip Giant, hope you are getting better!

[RedScholarGypsy]

Haley should just kill the three goblins and redo the move silently check, otherwise that train's going to snowball. Raise your hand if this has happened to you before, please :smallamused:

Great comic. yay early morning check!

[Kesnit]

Anyone catch the reference (if there was one) in the first panel? Sounds like a TV show of some sort.


I think it was about the series finale of "The Sopranos."

[banjo1985]

Hehe great stuff, poor skullsy I knew he was gonna go at some point but it was still a bit if a surprise!

[Casinodwarf]

Pretty fine comic today.

Good to see you feeling better Mr. Burlew:smallbiggrin:

[Setra]

Can't say as I blame him, poor yorick.

[nimby]

Poor :xykon:, we hardly knew thee.

[battleburn]

Very nice, but why didn't they pick up the eyes?
Even without the skull, they could be usefull I'd say. Or at least be worth a lot.
The 'look I'm just saying' phrase is also the same phrase that black mage used today in the second panel (http://www.nuklearpower.com/latest.php)

Is Belkar's cloak magical, that he has the hood on when he is sneaking?

[Tordek]

I find it especially disconcerting that Belkar considers relieving oneself inside another being to be a status symbol.

Good comic, though.

[Estelindis]

Fantastic! Nice to see that there is an amount of crap the EoFaF won't put up with... Although now it won't be able to put up with anything at all. :smallfrown: Also, I find myself in agreement with Belkar (...) regarding their hasty retreat: it really does bring back memories. :smallsmile:

[Aimbot]

I was hoping he's stick around too.

[CrazyGM]

That was a Sopranos tie in joke right?

[Malik]

ROTFLOL (stops to catch his breath from all the laughing hes een doing) absolutely wonderful Giant i was wondering what was going to happen to the EoFaF and you delivered it perfectly as always.:smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:

[Antina]

I liked the undead scull.
He played very much in character.

Belkars talking was typical RPG-Table-Talk.
I nearly can hear the GM say: "Did you really say that InTime, or was it an OutTime commentary?"
And Belkars players answer kind of: "Well - didn´t really think about it - why not inTime...- so let it be- what should happen..." :giggle:

[Pantler]

Darn you, Belkar! Why did you screw up such a beautiful relationship? (Yeah, I was kinda thinking that could have been it for Belkar's Romantic Interest. :smallbiggrin:)
Glad to see you back on your feet, Giant.

[daydreamer]

Poor flaming skull :smallfrown:

[Mojique]

Last line, first panel:


Do you hear that, Orangina?

What means "Orangina"? Is it only a reference to the colour of Haley's hairs or an insider joke which I couldn't understand?

[Caledonian]

I would have thought the show reference was about Stargate SG-1, but it's been on for ten seasons, not eight.

[Green Bean]

Go Evasion! And of course, you gotta love generic hobgoblin #3

"I'm afraid of fear itself!" :smallbiggrin:

[Emperor Ing]

Aww poor skull
You'll be with all of us forever in our hearts!


:xykon: Eye of Fear and Flame :xykon:
431-469
RIP

[Freelance Henchman]

"You probably already have a dozen sentient beings you can take a dump in".

The Disturbing Image(tm) brought to you by Belkar Bitterleaf, Chaotic Evil Ranger/Barbarian.

[Glorfindel]

Last line, first panel:

What means "Orangina"? Is it only a reference to the colour of Haley's hairs or an insider joke which I couldn't understand?

Maybe it was directed at the (orange-skinned) hobgoblins?

[16oz]

Another possible use for Roy's Bag of Tricks has been found... give to Belkar for when they can't find the restrooms in the dungeons.

Great stuff though. And yes, this is looking like the start of an epic train that I've encountered several times in MMOs that I've played... I'm mostly reminded of Blackburrow from the original Everquest... nothing like 30+ baddies lining up to smack you down.

*sigh* Those were the days....

[InfernusTribble]

Orangina is a drink in the u.k. - sort of like orange juice

[beholder]

yeah. orangina is also a fizzy orange drink. a french one. hence this is an insulting term for the hobbies

[Monan]

Heh,great comic today.
Too bad that the Eye of Fear and Flame is gone.
Poor Skullsy.

He had to go, but yes a sad loss. I was hoping to see our favorite halfling gut more hobgoblins, but that probably wouldn't have helped the story along.

Did Belkar get evasion from his level(s?) in barbarian? I know he has at least one level in barbarian. I love how the OOTS talks about abilities like players talking about their characters.

[Charles_Bronson]

Belkar get evasion probably because he leveled up.

[Repzak]

Sorry to see the EoFaF go, but not unexpected. Way too powerful for Belkar to keep. Fun comic though.


Belkar get evasion probably because he leveled up.

He has probably had it for a while. It's Ranger lvl9, and since the party is supposedly way past that...

[factotum]

Well, I didn't think that Belkar could keep hold of the EoFaF for long, but as always the Giant surprises us with the exact means of its departure! Who knew a bodiless skull was actually capable of growing a pair?

Anyway, there's a real risk here of Roy's corpse becoming Grand Central for the approaching train if Haley and Belkar can't elude their pursuers somehow...

[BisectedBrioche]

Heh, I haven't had Orangina for ages. I wonder if they still sell it beyond France.

[TreesOfDeath]

Belkar get evasion probably because he leveled up.

Incorrect,t hey started at lv11 or so, so Belkar already had evasion. No doubt he simply forgot he had it, that seems Belkar like

[Mojique]

yeah. orangina is also a fizzy orange drink. a french one. hence this is an insulting term for the hobbies
Sounds plausible. Maybe Belgar tasted it, because he is a undercover vampire-halfling on diet. :smallbiggrin:

[moonbiter]

I thought "Orangina" was a reference to another "*agina" word.

But maybe I'm not thinking family-friendly enough.

[Blaznak]

Alas poor Skullsy, we knew ye well... :smallfrown:

You have to admit, causing someone to be so annoyed you are willing to die is a pretty cool undocumented feat for Belkar...

Later!

[Fitzclowningham]

What's an airplane? :smalltongue:

[The_Weirdo]

Alas, poor Eye-orick.

It IS a fact, though, that it was getting broken in-game and the DM (thinking game-wise; or Rich thinking comic-wise) wanted the Eye out after the battle. It is another fact that I, too, would probably prefer death to serving as someone's... bowl-reliever.

[Charles_Bronson]

Incorrect,t hey started at lv11 or so, so Belkar already had evasion. No doubt he simply forgot he had it, that seems Belkar like

where exactly you read that? And if i remember well, belkar probably has barbarian levels too.

EDIT: And in the FAQ, rich stated: "...As a result, there will never be official game statistics for Roy, Elan, and the rest. As a rule of thumb, I tend to think of them as being around 7th-9th level or so..."

[Miraqariftsky]

Mmmeeemmoorrriiiieeeessss!

Non-singing version: Memories!

Nice one, sir Burlew!

[Sereneprophet]

I wouldnt be suprised if belkar had levels in some custom Halfling Crazy Badass class (well he always will in my opinion anyways) :P

Ahh how I love the little sadistic ranger.

Great comic btw. Hope your track to recover continues.

Oh...and I'm glad skullzy died...Belkar don't need no durned skull! (Gotta love abuse of the English language...hurray!)

[Forevergrey]

Being Belkar's personal emergency chamberpot certainly qualifies as 'a fate worse than death'.

Some enjoy it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pd_xCURto8

[warmachine]

There are theories that Belkar isn't really a Ranger. Thus, he wouldn't get Evasion. Well, it's a theory.

[darkgolem]

Anyone catch the reference (if there was one) in the first panel? Sounds like a TV show of some sort.

Pity about the skull though. That should satisfy the OMGZ!Illegal! crowd.


The odd end of the Sobrano's

[Suckersapien]

Yep, the Sopranos finale. In about 25 words, Burlew summed up the epically stupid debate that was dominating the Internet for the last three weeks. We should all be grateful that the third goblin cut it short before they got to the symbolism of the onion rings. Anyway while ignoring the anachronisms, I'm a little curious about how much leisure time the goblins have on their hands during the middle of an invasion. Maybe Red Cloak is going too soft on them.

It's the sign of a good author that he knows how to get rid of something that would unbalance the plot (the nigh unstoppable weapon in the hands of Belkar) without heavy handed mechanations. Belkar's own arrogance and inhumanity ended up costing him the most valuable weapon he's likely to ever have. And Burlew managed to put in scatalogical humor that would normally go in a Farrelly Brothers movie or a fetish website, and yet somehow make it family appropriate.

What more can you want from a comic.

[TroyXavier]

Fun little comic and things are getting back to normal in the OOTS world.:smallbiggrin:

[NeonRonin]

Very nice. Loved the hobbos' reactions to the Fear beam... and while I'm sorry to see Belkar's pet skull go, I guess it had to happen sooner or later. Highly amusing way to go, too.

And Belkar's intelligence(or lack thereof) never ceases to amaze me. Did he even know rangers get Evasion for free at 9th level? He certainly didn't seem to be aware of ranger spellcasting ability, way back in the Dungeon of Dorukan arc... probably because he couldn't use it in the first place...

He's reminding me of a number of players I've known who pick a class, breeze around on autopilot for a few levels, till they get in a sticky situation and THEN remember certain aspects. "Hey, wait a minute... I completely forgot, I can do(insert class ability here), you guys!" "And you waited till NOW to remember that, Bob?!? About 3 rounds AFTER we could have used it?" "Ummm... oops?"

Anyone else been there before?

Good job, Rich. Hope you feel better.

[squidthingy]

good comic, just one question: why is there a "small furious" smily on the title of the thread?

[TheNovak]

Ladies and gentlemen, I think we've just seen what passes for Belkar as grief.

Remember this day. Sha'nt happen again :smallsmile:

[malakim2099]

I think it was about the series finale of "The Sopranos."

You would be correct, sir! At least, that's my guess, considering how the series ended.

Hobgoblins addicted to the Sopranos... why am I not surprised? :smallamused:

[shakes019]

Yeah, I'm thinking that Belkar's just not interested in keeping up with his class abilities, other than number of hit dice and attacks per round.

[Bluecloak]

Aw, no:smallfrown: Not Skullsy... And he had so much potential too, I think I thought of every one that Belkar named, except one... Did anyone start a fanclub for him already?

Still, nice to see Rich is back and that the comic is live and kicking:smallsmile:

[Pronounceable]

Now who can those sentient beings Haley can take a dump in be?

[Fighteer]

where exactly you read that? And if i remember well, belkar probably has barbarian levels too.

EDIT: And in the FAQ, rich stated: "...As a result, there will never be official game statistics for Roy, Elan, and the rest. As a rule of thumb, I tend to think of them as being around 7th-9th level or so..."
It's already been well-established in other threads on the topic that the OotS is now at or about level 13. Pertinent facts include the number of times they have leveled up "on camera", as it were, and certain class-based statistics such as spellcasting ability (V's use of Mass versions of various 1st and 2nd level buffs).

Given that we know Belkar took Barbarian as his 13th class level, that makes him a 12th level Ranger (it's also theoretically possible for him to be Rgr 11/Brb 2).

And yes, I love it when players (myself included) suddenly remember a class feature that they completely forgot about (sometimes to the point of not writing it on the character sheet) but that just happens to save them in a tricky situation. It's even funnier when the DM remembers it but the player didn't, as in this case. "Roll your save. Okay, you take no damage." "What?" "You have Evasion, remember? Ranger? Class feature?" "Oh, yeah. Cool!"

[Fascisticide]

NOOOOOO! My favorite character has been crushed on a rock!

[berrew]

There are theories that Belkar isn't really a Ranger. Thus, he wouldn't get Evasion. Well, it's a theory.There are also theories that the world is flat, and Elvis is alive. Theories totally unsupported by fact, and even contradicted by casual observation, but nonetheless, theories. (OK, to nitpick, they are hypotheses, really... I hate how the word "theory" has devolved over time to be both, somehow :p)

[berrew]

...It's already been well-established in other threads on the topic that the OotS is now at or about level 13...Did you see the quote that Charles_Bronson was replying to? In it, the poster was claiming that the OoTS characters started at level 11, which was incorrect.

[Charles_Bronson]

This is a much more better explanation than (Belkar is a 11th level ranger).

He at the comic start don´t know how to track (except when angered), and he can´t cast spells.

[Forevergrey]

Now who can those sentient beings Haley can take a dump in be?

I would place it at at least 20% of the clientele of any given brothel.

[Fuzzy_Juan]

how the hell would he not know he had evasion?!?! Silly Belkar...I wonder if the joke was made because Rich just recently found out that rangers in 3.5 have evasion at 9th and decided to toss it in as a joke.

Great Sopranos reference...

[WebMonk]

I have no idea what Haley is thinking, or I do, but I can't believe she thinks she's going to remedy the situation by running away. First there are a half-dozen goblins chasing. They will attract the attention (they are in the middle of an army!) of more and more and more until you've got then entire army chasing them. Typical avalanche caused by a few small pebbles sort of event.

Hmmm, maybe this is what is going to happen. They'll become a distraction for Hinjo, V, Elan, and Durkon! Haley and Belkar get captured, along with Roy's body. Xykon raises Roy as some sort of undead something. The still free portion of OotS rescues the captured portion and takes the undead Roy with them. They then have to somehow restore Roy and get to the next Gate to stop Xykon.

[teratorn]

Belkar's own arrogance and inhumanity ended up costing him the most valuable weapon he's likely to ever have.
And for the second time ruins one of Haley's plans. Not a good track for a team leader.

[Fighteer]

Did you see the quote that Charles_Bronson was replying to? In it, the poster was claiming that the OoTS characters started at level 11, which was incorrect.
Granted. However, the issue is their current level, not their original one. As the comic has progressed, their class levels have inevitably become more defined as we've seen exactly what they are capable of doing, magic and ability-wise.


This is a much more better explanation than (Belkar is a 11th level ranger).

He at the comic start don´t know how to track (except when angered), and he can´t cast spells.
Survival is a class skill for the Ranger, but that doesn't mean they are required to take any ranks in it. Moreover, both the skill and the Ranger's spellcasting ability are Wisdom-based, and Belkar used Wisdom as his dump stat. There is nothing inherently preventing a player from intentionally sub-optimizing his character by failing to appropriately allocate stats.

Heck, Durkon loses a lot of his potential effectiveness at turning undead because of his low Charisma score, Vaarsuvius gave up Conjuration (arguably one of the most powerful arcane schools), and Roy spent a lot of his stat allocation on mental attributes, which is suboptimal for a fighter. The OotS are not min/maxed, which makes them a more entertaining group to read about.

[Quikngruvn]

I think it's pretty telling that Haley didn't stop to take the gemstones that were in the Eye of Fear and Flame's eyesockets. She's either entirely focused on getting to Roy's corpse, or just on getting away from the hobgoblins.

And it makes perfect sense that hobgoblins like The Sopranos-- after all, they're both lawful evil.

[teratorn]

I have no idea what Haley is thinking, or I do, but I can't believe she thinks she's going to remedy the situation by running away. First there are a half-dozen goblins chasing.

Belkar is fight-impaired since as the skull says they are trying to leave the city. Probably she can't take all of them before they reach her.

[Mr Teufel]

Belkar just can't help using that Craft Disturbing Images feat!

And he seems to have a seriously disturbing idea about what others get up to in their bedrooms!

[Mad Scientist]

Ha ha! I was pretty sure the whole "sneak in and grab Roy's body" was too easy to work with belkar along for th ride. This should be really awesomely funny.

[Ronald_saveloy]

Third-rate Yorick knock-off!:biggrin:

Nice Shakespeare reference.

[Alysar]

Anyone else surprised that Haley didn't pocket the eye gems?

[Faramir]

Heh, I haven't had Orangina for ages. I wonder if they still sell it beyond France.

They do. It's even easy to get in the US these days, at least around NYC.

And yes, I'm pretty sure that was a Soprano's joke.

[Etheric]

And yes, I love it when players (myself included) suddenly remember a class feature that they completely forgot about (sometimes to the point of not writing it on the character sheet) but that just happens to save them in a tricky situation. It's even funnier when the DM remembers it but the player didn't, as in this case. "Roll your save. Okay, you take no damage." "What?" "You have Evasion, remember? Ranger? Class feature?" "Oh, yeah. Cool!"

Yeah I thought that was the point of the joke. Rangers getting evasion at lvl 9 is not really commonly known, I certainally had to look it up in the SRD.

Nice touch, but things are not funny when you have to explain them too much :D.

[Faramir]

Anyone else surprised that Haley didn't pocket the eye gems?

I was at first but then I just figured we didn't see her do it.

[choryukami]

Incorrect, they started at lv11 or so, so Belkar already had evasion. No doubt he simply forgot he had it, that seems Belkar like

Evasion was something rangers gained in 3.5. He probably never even knew. Remember that they were converted in comic #1.

[Basha]

He's reminding me of a number of players I've known who pick a class, breeze around on autopilot for a few levels, till they get in a sticky situation and THEN remember certain aspects. "Hey, wait a minute... I completely forgot, I can do(insert class ability here), you guys!" "And you waited till NOW to remember that, Bob?!? About 3 rounds AFTER we could have used it?" "Ummm... oops?"

Anyone else been there before?

Good job, Rich. Hope you feel better.

I have played for years with someone who could have stood role model for Belkar, and with a few other players who were not too aware of their characters abilities. That created, along with the occasional frustration about the situation you mentioned, lots of fun. Sometimes it even came from the lack of the limits to their abilities.

And indeed, what a wonderful comic, Rich. Hope you really recovered.

[the_tick_rules]

a requiem for skullsy.

[Omega]

Yes, being chased by goblins do bring back memories.

[the_tick_rules]

how did belkar evade?

[Bosswald]

WHHYYYY? Skullsy was the bomb, yo! Literally! The Belkar-Skullsy gags were some of the funniest to date!

[Mercutio's Love]

Hey, when Belkar says that Hayley has a dozen sentient beings to take a dump in - is he referring to scat? :smallannoyed:

[Monan]

Heh, I haven't had Orangina for ages. I wonder if they still sell it beyond France.

They sell it in the US. I got it at the grocery store on the east coast, VA, and I think i saw it for sale in stores in San Diego when i was just down there.

Yeah I think they were referring to the hobgoblins.

[the_tick_rules]

i was confused by that also.

[Freelance Henchman]

Hey, when Belkar says that Hayley has a dozen sentient beings to take a dump in - is he referring to scat? :smallannoyed:

What else, the entire comic revolved around that. It's a maxed-out Craft (Disturbing Image) skill at work.

[Snipers_Promise]

Loved the referance to Franklin Rosevelt. We have nothing to fear but fear itself. Poor Skully, but life goes on. Unlife, Not dead life but still having vital sig....Oh forget it. Great Comic Giant and hope your feel better.

[Monan]

There are theories that Belkar isn't really a Ranger. Thus, he wouldn't get Evasion. Well, it's a theory.

Take a look at the OOTS cast of characters page and that should end the discussions of those theories.

to quote the page "Halfling ranger Belkar Bitterleaf, the world's best tracker under 4 feet tall."

BTW for some odd reason I'm feeling your posted the above statement as a joke and to see if you got a rise out of people. If so, great job. LOL!

[Hushdawg]

Evasion was something rangers gained in 3.5. He probably never even knew. Remember that they were converted in comic #1.

The more plausible answer is that he got it when he leveled up, not automatically when he converted to 3.5 edition.

If you'll recall, there was a fireball which seared Belkar and the others quite well in the earlier strips and only Haley evaded it.

Here it is, strip 19:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0019.html

[Borris]

Poor Haley. If only she had a few ranks in Knowledge (religion) she'd have known that those two gem eyes are worth 2,000 gp each. Definitely not something you leave behind.

[Castamir]

Aaw, Skullsy finally grew a spine. Oh, my.

[MReav]

To answer Belkar's question, it seems he's had Evasion as far back as http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0182.html

[Snipers_Promise]

Poor Haley. If only she had a few ranks in Knowledge (religion) she'd have known that those two gem eyes are worth 2,000 gp each. Definitely not something you leave behind.

I don't have my PHB with me but why is it 2000 gp?

[Porthos]

The more plausible answer is that he got it when he leveled up, not automatically when he converted to 3.5 edition.

If you'll recall, there was a fireball which seared Belkar and the others quite well in the earlier strips and only Haley evaded it.

Here it is, strip 19:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0019.html

Or he just failed his save (like he obviously did in #359 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0359.html) :smalltongue:)
Yes he should have a pretty high Reflex save. But just because it is/might be high, doesn't always mean he'll make it. In fact, the Meta Joke here might be that Belkar finally made a Reflex Save and noticed that, whadda ya know, he had Evasion all this time.

As I said in the other thread, it's not as if the Belkar is really familiar with the finer points of the Ranger Class (no Animal Companion, no ranks in Survival, no attention paid to the spell casting features, etc). I suspect he took Ranger for one reason and one reason only: Two Weapon Fighting. :smallamused:

[Snipers_Promise]

I think belkar should get Black Dragon Familar. Or mabye take some levels in the Ravager prestige class who and I qoute from a sourcebook"Living a life of violence and savagery" and 'Amoung the Numbers of The Ravagers are the most Irremdemible and vile presons ever to walk under the sun." Sounds Perfect Doesn't it. Page 73 and 143 Complete Warrior.

[Porthos]

Anyway while ignoring the anachronisms, I'm a little curious about how much leisure time the goblins have on their hands during the middle of an invasion. Maybe Red Cloak is going too soft on them.


You obviously haven't read the Introduction to On the Origins of PCs. :smalltongue: If you had, then you would already know that a favorite pastime of NPCs is to watch/discuss current TV shows. :smallwink:

[PirateMonk]

Lucky for them Belkar weighs 30 pounds...

[dakiwiboid]

I just found an extremely bizarre Orangina ad on YouTube. It's all in French, but you can get the gist of it and see why it's so appropriate for Belkar to associate with these guys:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hzr_bYjG5Y

:smallcool:

[Aerysil]

It took me a little while to figure out what the gobbies were ranting about in the first panel :)

[itliaf]

Did anyone else think/hope Belkar had lost his eyebrows in the fireball? As if not knowing that he had evasion meant he suffered minor cosmetic damage. Anyway, he had no eyebrows in the next frame and I got a bit excited.

Belkar's lament was great though. Great strip.

[Doug Lampert]

where exactly you read that? And if i remember well, belkar probably has barbarian levels too.

EDIT: And in the FAQ, rich stated: "...As a result, there will never be official game statistics for Roy, Elan, and the rest. As a rule of thumb, I tend to think of them as being around 7th-9th level or so..."The FAQ has said that since at least the first 50 strips, probably longer, they've leveled at least twice since then so the statement is obsolete in the comic, and we have additional information inside the comic, Mass Spells from V that get one level per target get 13 targets, V is level 13 and available evidence (they all tend to level at about the same time) is that they are all probably the same level.

Hence, they are level 13 or so no matter what the FAQ says, deal with it.

Belkar has, as far as we know, ONE barbarian level, it could be more, maybe there were a couple of times they leveled without us seeing it, but it's VERY unlikely that he's a Rgr8-/Bbn5+, he has at least 9 Rgr levels, hence he has evasion.

[jamroar]

I just found an extremely bizarre Orangina ad on YouTube. It's all in French, but you can get the gist of it and see why it's so appropriate for Belkar to associate with these guys:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hzr_bYjG5Y

:smallcool:

I think this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwXsI_q1W7Q) ad for Red Orangina would also be appropriate for Belkar. Creepiest anthromorphic drink mascot ever. :smalleek:

[Imrahil]

I don't have my PHB with me but why is it 2000 gp?

Actually, the EoFaF is found in the Book of Vile Darkness, page 177. It's description reads as follows:

"Draped in a ragged, hooded cloak, an eye of fear and flame is a skeletal figure with a gem set into each eye socket - one red and one black. Each gem is worth 2,000 gp but has no magical qualities once the eye of fear and flame is destroyed."

Thus, if Haley realized this, she would have had an extra 4,000 gp to kick around.

Oh, and 'third-rate Yorick knock-off' brought the class back into this particular strip.

[Solo]

Hey, when Belkar says that Hayley has a dozen sentient beings to take a dump in - is he referring to scat? :smallannoyed:

how many ranks do you have in Craft: Disturbing Mental Image?

[Tobrian]

Poor Haley. If only she had a few ranks in Knowledge (religion) she'd have known that those two gem eyes are worth 2,000 gp each. Definitely not something you leave behind.

What does Knowledge (Religion) [into which knowledge about undead (aka. Necrology) was shoehorned in] have to do with it? The rubies are lying there right in front of her, and it's not like they weren't visible before! All you need is a Spot check. Haley could do an Appraise check later. She could have grabbed them but didn't. Very odd.


And once again Belkar manages to make a situation spiral out of control.

Hm. Evasion? Haley and Belkar just stood there. Does that count as Evasion? I dimly remember a comic in which Haley and others got hit with a spell and Haley stood in the middle of them and still evaded, I think. But in other instances, she actively evaded by jumping out of the way. And she was awfully quick to offer "Evasion" feat as an explanation for Belkar's survival. On the other hand maybe I shouldn't read too much into this scene, since rangers do have evasion now.

Nice solid Belkar-screws-it-up strip. :smallbiggrin:


Hey, when Belkar says that Hayley has a dozen sentient beings to take a dump in - is he referring to scat? :smallannoyed:

Of course, what else could it be?
No wonder Belkar never has a social relationship with anything that has a pulse. And he doesn't seem to know Haley too well if he thinks she's into that... low Wisdom score strikes once again.

[silvadel]

It makes a lot of sense -- Belkar's PC still has the 3.0 rulebook never bothering to upgrade to the 3.5 set and never realized he actually had evasion because 3.0 rangers didnt get it.

[Emmerson Grant]

I'm thinking Haley picked up the gems of the skull off-panel.
It's what I'd do.

[Martok]

"third-rate Yorick knock-off"

Heh. :smallbiggrin:

[nusigf]

Anyone catch the reference (if there was one) in the first panel? Sounds like a TV show of some sort.

Pity about the skull though. That should satisfy the OMGZ!Illegal! crowd.

If no one's answered this question, the TV show the first hobbo was referring to was the ending to "The Sopranos"

[Chronos]

Yes he should have a pretty high Reflex save. But just because it is/might be high, doesn't always mean he'll make it.Indeed. Even Haley occasionally fails her Reflex save (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0168.html).

[nusigf]

Last line, first panel:



What means "Orangina"? Is it only a reference to the colour of Haley's hairs or an insider joke which I couldn't understand?

Orangina is a soft drink in the US. It's either French or Canadian or French Canadian in origin. It comes in a funky tear drop shaped bottle, and it's almost like orange juice (with pulp) and Sprite / 7 up mixed together. Weird, but nice.

It's also the same color as the hobgoblins.

[SteveMB]

Of course, what else could it be?
No wonder Belkar never has a social relationship with anything that has a pulse. And he doesn't seem to know Haley too well if he thinks she's into that... low Wisdom score strikes once again.
I don't think he seriously believes that Haley is into that -- for him, jerking people's chains is a way of life.

[Imrahil]

Orangina is a soft drink in the US. It's either French or Canadian or French Canadian in origin.

Oddly, it comes from Algeria originally, which happened to be colonized by the French until the 1960s. After the French left, they took the drink with them.

[Krytha]

Hahaha hey Haley, how's the mantle of leadership feel? Pretty tight around the neck?

[Thanatos 51-50]

Now, the only thins I know about the Eye of Fear and Flame come from a second-edition Fiend Folio, however, I do remember it being specifically stated in the book that if the gems were removed from the EoFaF's eye sockets, that they would immediatly crumble to dust and become worthless.

Has this been changed in the 3rd Edition?

[Skullsy]

Skullsy was cool, too bad he's gone... there's so many things that he could have done as Belkar mentioned and a lot more could have been explored as well.

It would have been a nice "pet" kinda thing for Belkar too since they have the same alignment and they would have had funny lines and cunning gimmicks together. But then again, it would be a bit annoying to have to carry a human skull around all the time for a halfling.

Anyway, farewell Belkar, we had fun together. :smallsigh:

[Imrahil]

Now, the only thins I know about the Eye of Fear and Flame come from a second-edition Fiend Folio, however, I do remember it being specifically stated in the book that if the gems were removed from the EoFaF's eye sockets, that they would immediatly crumble to dust and become worthless.

Has this been changed in the 3rd Edition?

Yes, yes it has. I'll just repost what I had commented earlier:


Actually, the EoFaF is found in the Book of Vile Darkness, page 177. It's description reads as follows:

"Draped in a ragged, hooded cloak, an eye of fear and flame is a skeletal figure with a gem set into each eye socket - one red and one black. Each gem is worth 2,000 gp but has no magical qualities once the eye of fear and flame is destroyed."

The treasure rating also cinches it by specifically referencing the gems.

[Thanatos 51-50]

Heh, and THAT would be the post about the EoFaF's eye gems that I missed. Typical of me, really.

[Leo_Forestclaw]

[QUOTE=Suckersapien;2793122]Yep, the Sopranos finale. In about 25 words, Burlew summed up the epically stupid debate that was dominating the Internet for the last three weeks. We should all be grateful that the third goblin cut it short before they got to the symbolism of the onion rings. [QUOTE]

At the risk of being hugely off topic: Please say there were no serious debates over the possible symbology of the onion rings.

Existential debats over tater tots, well sure, but onion rings; that's just reaching deep into an empty bag of holding. :smallcool:

Edit: quote fixing

[crathoc]

I wonder what the skull was more afraid of.

The Hamlet refrence was pretty funny(thrid rate yorick) Alas poor yorick i knew him well

[Muscadine]

Everyone seems to forget Rangers get Evasion. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19282#14)

[Recurve]

Very solid strip.

[Imrahil]

I wonder what the skull was more afraid of.

He was afraid of being Belkar's emergency chamber pot and...ahem...literally taking Belkar's crap.

[Vulion]

Poor Skullsy, he never fufilled his true purpose as a chamber pot...he will be missed.

Great comic, by the way.

[Sturmjaeger]

Belkar's dim enough to have Evasion and not realize it. Awesome comic. :)

[crathoc]

I admit that when skullsy casted fireball on belkar that it would kill him due to the title of the script crossbones which is usually a sign for death.

By the way how many people have played the Order of the Stick Adventure game The Dungeon of Dorukon

[Cantryboy]

Or he just failed his save (like he obviously did in #359 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0359.html) :smalltongue:)
Yes he should have a pretty high Reflex save. But just because it is/might be high, doesn't always mean he'll make it.
But he didn't get hurt there either...at least I don't see any damage...

[Forealms]

If it weren't for that chamber pot comment, the hobs would still be afraid for their individuality...

[One Skunk Todd]

I wonder if Haley gets XP for killing the EoFaF?

[Snipers_Promise]

I wonder if belker would of gotten Xp for "Defeating" the EoFaF?

[Runolfr]

Anyone notice the Evasion thing or was that just me.

"When did I learn Evasion?" -- Belkar

"Ranger level 9, dumbass!" -- Me

[Black of Night]

Time to read web-comics at work.

I whole-heartedly agree!

[shaddy_24]

Awesome comic. It took Belkar longer than I thought to lose the skull too. But my guess on how long he could keep up being stealthy was right. Not even one comic.


Hm. Evasion? Haley and Belkar just stood there. Does that count as Evasion? I dimly remember a comic in which Haley and others got hit with a spell and Haley stood in the middle of them and still evaded, I think. But in other instances, she actively evaded by jumping out of the way. And she was awfully quick to offer "Evasion" feat as an explanation for Belkar's survival. On the other hand maybe I shouldn't read too much into this scene, since rangers do have evasion now.

If Belkar had simply made the save he would still have taken half damage. Since he took no damage at all, that indicates he has evasion.

[meioziz]

I agree that the reference is probably The Sopranos, but I have to toss in the fact that The Sopranos has 6 seasons, instead of 8. (edit: which, incidentally, could be exactly what the Giant is trying to say - these arguments often don't even have the facts straight, or just are exaggerated, as are most fad-arguments)

Also, I'm surprised no one else has mentioned this... but the reason why the "chamber pot" comment was the last straw is that the EoFaF thinks, "Ugh, biology is disgusting" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0468.html).

[Twilight Jack]

I agree that the reference is probably The Sopranos, but I have to toss in the fact that The Sopranos has 6 seasons, instead of 8. (edit: which, incidentally, could be exactly what the Giant is trying to say - these arguments often don't even have the facts straight, or just are exaggerated, as are most fad-arguments)

Also, I'm surprised no one else has mentioned this... but the reason why the "chamber pot" comment was the last straw is that the EoFaF thinks, "Ugh, biology is disgusting" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0468.html).

Yes, the Sopranos only has 6 seasons, but due to delays and breaks in the schedule (which is more freeform for a channel like HBO than a major network), the show has been on the air for 8 years.

[Porthos]

But he didn't get hurt there either...at least I don't see any damage...

You can see him grimicing in pain. :smallsmile: So I figure, much like V did in that strip, he took damage, but it just wasn't shown.

[Cantryboy]

You can see him grimicing in pain. :smallsmile: So I figure, much like V did in that strip, he took damage, but it just wasn't shown.
But he did the same thing in 469. :confused:

[David Argall]

Sorry to see the EoFaF go, but not unexpected. Way too powerful for Belkar to keep.

Not at all. In fact it was kinda wimpy.

A 10th level fireball does 10d6, or 6-60 = 33/16/0 on average. For your full attack melee fighter at 13th level, that is yawn city. And the "wand" works only every third round. Belkar uses it, puts it away, then has to spend an action to get it out again. His damage production is way down.

It was a useful little toy for dealing with mobs of the small stuff, but when dealing with serious foes, it is just a distraction.

[Phase42]

As I said in the other thread, it's not as if the Belkar is really familiar with the finer points of the Ranger Class (no Animal Companion, no ranks in Survival, no attention paid to the spell casting features, etc). I suspect he took Ranger for one reason and one reason only: Two Weapon Fighting. :smallamused:

Yeah, I'll bet that's it. I played in a campaign a couple years ago where our party ranger was run by a guy who had never played D&D before but ... he had read all the Drizzt novels (never mind that most of Drizzt's levels were in fighter). He made it to 8th level, I think, before other commitments took him away from the game. But he never cast a spell, didn't bother with an animal companion (probably because he couldn't get one like Drizzt had). DM wouldn't let him play a drow, but the player was aided by our DMs misinterpretation of the Two-Weapon Fighting rules (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=856155). The guy rarely even needed any of his other class features, because he was single-handedly mowing down the enemies in one or two rounds :smallannoyed:

[Elurindel]

Last line, first panel:



What means "Orangina"? Is it only a reference to the colour of Haley's hairs or an insider joke which I couldn't understand?

Orangina is an oranged-flavoured drink more commonly found in Europe.

[Omicroncubed]

I was kinda expecting that they would be spotted in the first strip (where Belkar and Haley were in) as they left. :smallamused:

Anyway wonderfull comic :smallsmile:

[Mc. Lovin']

Anyone notice the Evasion thing or was that just me.

Wasn't there a whole panel dedicated to that?

[silvadel]

Actually belkar probably got evasion upon upgrading to 3.5 rules not for any specific level.

Actually evasion is like the only thing that makes the d8 hit points tolerable for 3.5 rangers.

[bdh5533]

"easy for you to say, you probably have a dozen sentient beings you can take a dump in." "I don't get anything nice"


LOL

[shakes019]

I only just now got the t-shirt joke. Hee.

ETA: For those questioning whether or not Belkar's a ranger (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0058.html).

[Ronald_saveloy]

There are theories that Belkar isn't really a Ranger. Thus, he wouldn't get Evasion. Well, it's a theory.

Belkar is a ranger for one single reason: He can figth with two weapons at the same time.

[Requiem_Jeer]

Well, actually, The only reason to be a ranger to two-weapon fight is that two-weapon fighting rangers don't need 19 dex to get greater TWF.

[Faramir]

Thus, if Haley realized this, she would have had an extra 4,000 gp to kick around.


Come on, does anyone really think Haley didn't grab the gems while Belkar was doing his, "I say let 'em come..." rant?

[Hugh]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alysar
Anyone else surprised that Haley didn't pocket the eye gems?

I was at first but then I just figured we didn't see her do it.

Yea, I figured that was what she was doing in panel 20 too. It would have been cool to show the eyeless skull as Belkar and Haley were running past it.

[baerdith]

Oh Belkar. You just had to talk and let your lkack of wisdom ruin a perfectly good magic item. (or was that the voice of all the "wow, Belkar gets to keep the magic skull" guys on the forums?) :smallsigh:

[Zhrec]

O my God! they killed skully!!!
Rich you evil person, how could you left Belkar with out pot for his phisicaal needs!
Well, but it was great strip any way. Briliant.

[Stryyder]

To answer Belkar's question, it seems he's had Evasion as far back as http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0182.html

Thats Why I think he is actually a thief pretending to be a Ranger...

[comicadv]

Why did the skull have to get a backbone? Oh, well I'm sure all is as it should be.

But I wonder...

Hey Giant what happened to Mr. Scruffy?

[Social_Outcast]

Poor EoFaF - but come on, Belkar with an Allie and/or Friend (willing or not)?!? Its fitting to his character, or more to his Karma :smalltongue:

[pjackson]

Belkar is a ranger for one single reason: He can figth with two weapons at the same time.

Probably also for the favoured enemies feature.

[Albion]

Haley takes dumps in sentient beings? :smalleek:
I see her as more Xena-like now

[sealemon]

Too bad Belkar won't be able to skull'k like he used to. At least the EoFaF kept an eye out for them...or two.

[Zeekar]

A Hello. My name is Indigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.

Indigo Montoya? Is that a typo or am I missing a reference?

[StupidFatHobbit]

Indigo Montoya? Is that a typo or am I missing a reference?

I've been wanting to ask that same question forever. I never did, because I figured there are enough spelling geeks and Princess Bride geeks on this forum that if Kesnit still hasn't changed it, that means it must be an in-joke of some sort and I would look like a hopeless n00b for mentioning it.

[Carteeg_Struve]

Probably also for the favoured enemies feature.


1st Favored Enemy: Everybody
2nd Favored Enemy: Everybody Else.

:smallbiggrin:

[Elderac]

It has been a few years, but I used to get Oringina in the Washington, D.C. area.

[Breaon]

Maybe it's just me, but the 8 year reference could also be a ST:TNG reference; I believe it ran 8 seasons, and the rock Haley & Belkar are hiding behind, and the scenery, is a bit like the old "Star Trek Rock" (located in the hills just outside of Los Angeles) set used for a lot of outdoors-in-rocky-yet-almost-desert terrain shots.

Or, I'm just a geek. Given the earlier redshirt comments, though...

[Imrahil]

I believe that TNG only ran for seven seasons, and the Sopranos reference is both applicable and current.

[Whysp80]

The first panel reminds me of my office environment! :smallbiggrin: Its sad to seek poor Belkar's flame-skull go...but hey even the undead have limits, right? :smallsmile:

[Breaon]

I believe that TNG only ran for seven seasons, and the Sopranos reference is both applicable and current.


I know it ran from 1988 - 1994... yea, ok, that's only 7 seasons. My bad.

[TigerHunter]

Didn't The Sopranos run for six seasons?

[Bilbo27]

It was the final episode of the Sopranos to answer the question posted in page 1 and I know it has been answered many times already. Many people hated the ending since the mob family lived on and to many loose ends were left undone. But others like me, loved the ending, having to make your own assumptions on what happened. Did they get whacked by the guy at the bar? or the 2 gang bangers by the juke box? or did they get arrested by undercover feds? who knows? Giant-what was your take? Or are you really offended by those who keep asking? Loved the comic by the way. Goblins chasing our heroes. Memories from strips long ago.

[Steward]

1st Favored Enemy: Everybody
2nd Favored Enemy: Everybody Else.

:smallbiggrin:

That was his familiar that Haley just dashed.

[Hashijouzu]

I would have thought the show reference was about Stargate SG-1, but it's been on for ten seasons, not eight.

Didn't Sopranos go to 6? With SG1 going to 10 and *both* not having definitive endings, maybe Rich averaged the two? You could say the same about either one.

SG1 did come to mind first though. That's what a geek I am...:smallcool:

[Imrahil]

There's some debate over whether The Sopranos went for six seasons or whether it spanned for eight seasons. Never having seen the show itself, I can only say what I've heard, but I do recall that the show was on hiatus for a year.

Secondly, Stargate as a weekly TV show may be finished, but the actual series is not over. They still have the movies coming out.

[Raiser Blade]

I live in CA. and hey Orangina in my local market
When me and my friend saw it we couldn't stop laughing:smallbiggrin:

[Dr'uun Unnh]

For some reason I can't get over the expression on Belkar's face in the second-to-last panel in the first page and the panel where Haley snatches the Eye of Fear and Flame from his grasp. I can't believe that I'm feeling... sympathy for him. :smallfrown:

After knowing the outcome of it, I find the panel where he evades the fireball to be hilarious.

And it's always good to see Belkar utilizing the full functionality of his cloak. ::)

[Pyro]

I'm a little late on commenting on this, but I knew Belkar would screw something up.

[Alfryd]

Monday's comic is up now.
Very droll. Most droll indeed.
The last panel seems... oddly familiar?
...Nah.

I'm a little late on commenting on this, but I knew Belkar would screw something up.
And all is well with the world.
For given values of 'well.'

Strange. At the risk of jinxing things, I seem to have found the recent runs of strips more humorous than I'd been accustomed to. Particularly given the circumstances of looming and inexorable crushing defeat.

[DougWykstra]

The best line of this strip belongs to Belkar: "Easy for you to say, you probably already have a dozen sentient beings you can take a dump in." I find it highly amusing that this is one of Belkar's life objectives.

[Raza]

Right, rangers get evasion at lvl 9.

I was sortof hoping he'd been retrained to sword sage or something there, seeing as how he doesn't use 80% of the ranger stuff anyway, and it'd explain how he puts the smack down the way he does. Dual wielding small daggers, without any +damage magic weapon mods or class abilities and a racial strength penalty, he'd be doing 1d3+5/1d3+4 or so (assuming a generous base 16 put in str and the +3 weapons the linear guild apparently consistently uses). It's a surprise he wasn't stopped cold at the skeleton thing's damage reduction.

A shadow hand/tiger claw sword sage build would suit him.

[Morty]

A shadow hand/tiger claw sword sage build would suit him.

It wouldn't since one of the big running gags in the strip is that Belkar is ranger who doesn't use half of his abilities. And seriously, does Belkar look as spiritual, dedicated martial artist? I don't think so.
Belkar cleaves through everything ignoring what rules say because comic author has the privilege of ignoring the less smart parts of D&D rules.

[outlander]

"emergency chamberpot?"

Belkar's a ranger, don't rangers know how to xxxx in the woods?

I was glad to see that belkar is getting sick and tired of that MoJ crap and is finally ready to just call it out and deal with it. maybe he'll make his CON roll or something...

[paladindim]

Belkar lvl 9th? So he is the most low lvl char of the regulars :smallconfused:

[David Argall]

Belkar is at least 9th level ranger and at least 1st level barbarian. He is presumably about 13th as is the rest of the party, so what the other levels are is a matter of debate, probably containing a level or two more or ranger.

[Erai]

Kinda as confused as Haley 'bout that evasion thing...
could that tattoo have anything to do with this? Or maybe he managed to subconciously become a rogue-2?

[Angel in Black]

Kinda as confused as Haley 'bout that evasion thing...
could that tattoo have anything to do with this? Or maybe he managed to subconciously become a rogue-2?

9th level rangers get Evasion- Belkar is at least an 11th level ranger.

[Dunamin]

"emergency chamberpot?"

Belkar's a ranger, don't rangers know how to xxxx in the woods?
Yes, rangers are highly trained in scouring the forest floors for skulls to use as chamber pots. :smallwink:

[Shade]

Sentient skulls. You wouldn't want Belkar to be using a substandard skull for his chamber pot in the woods, would you? :smallamused:

[Bendal]

I don't know how he is doing it, but somehow Rich is channeling the halfling ranger that one of my friends ran in my campaign back when we were all in college. He too was a psychotic killer, never used half the ranger's abilities, and was always creating havoc out of their carefully crafted plans.

Belkar's comment about how many sentient beings Haley could take a dump in without question has to be one of the funniest statements I've read in this comic...