Steal it All

[Triskavanski]

So there was a thread earlier in Paizo's forums, that got me wondering..

It involves the odd interaction with a few feats and how the combat system works, that turns something into a very absurd situation.

Basically it revolves around becoming really good at the steal combat maneuver.


With the Steal Combat Maneuver we can not only take an item from the enemy during combat, but with Graceful Steal, we can now use it to do Sleight of hand.

Now we can take that and Pick up Quick Draw and then Sly Draw. There might be something better out there though. But we can now replace Bluff to Feint with Slight of Hand, which replace with a Steal Combat Maneuver.

How more can we really warp this out? Is there anyway we can use something like Sly Draw but without the whole issue of it being once per drawing of a weapon? Though Sly draw can get pretty absurd actually..

Cause you start off with Sleight of Hand as the base. In this case this will be your Steal Combat Maneuver. After you get all the bonuses from that, You then add in all feint specific modifications.

[unseenmage]

This sounds an awful lot like it's becoming a Final Fantasy thief who's capable of stealing everything off an opponent's arse and all in mid-combat.

And I am okay with that.

Eager to see what this thread turns up. Apologies I had nothing more useful to contribute.

[weckar]

To me this feels like legitimate X to Y strategies. No more broken than a Master dip for the Complimentary knacks (in 3.X).

The fact that you're rolling combat maneuvers actually makes it likely that your roll would be worse than an actual Bluff or SoH roll, from what I can see.

[Triskavanski]

Well if we go a whip user, we can use a whip with a steal combat maneuver (but we take a -4 to the roll) we can counter the -4 however by performing a combat trick with one of the basic Steal Maneuver feats.

We could further compound this with the possibility of taking Fighter for this, and now we get the weapon training for flails, magic weapon and weapon focus. I don't know however if you can use a whip to perform a pick pocket using the steal combat maneuver bonus in place of slight of hand.

Of course even as a fighter we'll have some trouble fitting everything in. Hmm.

[khadgar567]

stealing macguffin from big bads hand on first encounter now this is arsen lupin for you

[Serafina]

Step 1: Search Archives of Nethys (http://archivesofnethys.com/Search.aspx) for any mention of the word "steal".
Step 2: look at the finds, determine what's useful and fits together.

Sneaky Maneuvers (https://sites.google.com/site/pathfinderogc/classes/core-classes/rogue/rogue-talents/paizo---rogue-talents/sneaky-maneuver-ex) is a Rogue Talent that allows us to make a steal combat maneuver as a swift action whenever we hit with an attack, and would get sneak attack damage.
Stealing Strike is an Investigator talent that allows us to do the same thing, but with studied strike. Sadly it only comes online at 13th level, and is not as spammable as sneaky maneuver is.

So, the best option here seems to be to take a short two-level dip into Rogue for +1D6 sneak attack (we forfeit the damage anyway) and Sneaky Maneuvers.
This gives us one swift-action steal per round, which is pretty good already and comes online right at level 2.

Quick Steal (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/quick-steal-combat) gives us another Steal per round, in place of a melee attack.

Using a Sticky (http://archivesofnethys.com/MagicWeaponsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Sticky) weapon with a high crit range grants us another potential Steal-maneuver, on a critical threat.

The Pillager (http://archivesofnethys.com/TraitDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Pillager)-Trait gives +1 to Steal and Disarm combat maneuvers. Tieflings can get an alternate racial trait which does the same, and the two stack.

Now, other than the short dip into Rogue, what class would be best for a Steal-focussed build?
Well, since this build is focussed on combat maneuvers, the answer is mostly "any class with full BAB". It gives early access to feats, and it improves the CMB. Of the full-BAB classes, the only ones directly useful to this build are the Cad (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fighter-archetypes/cad)-Fighter and the Corsair (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/swashbuckler/archetypes/paizo---swashbuckler-archetypes/corsair-swashbuckler-archetype)-Swashbuckler. The former just gets a small bonus to steal-checks, the latter can take a full-round action to make a single attack and automatically steal an item. This does however conflict with Quick Steal, since you now lack a second melee attack to sacrifice.
However, there is one interesting Rogue-Archetype: the Filcher (http://archivesofnethys.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Rogue%20Filcher) gets an ability that allows using Sleight of Hand in place of CMB for steal combat maneuvers at 4th level. Better yet, bonuses that would increase your CMB for steal still fully apply. Now this does clash with Graceful Steal, but it's a very good option if you don't want to go for a full-BAB class. Also, Graceful Steal still provides the option for removing objects from packs. Furthermore, at 8th level that archetype eliminates the penalty for doing that.

Oh, and it's worth mentioning the Pilferer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/familiar/familiar-archetypes/pilferer-familiar-archetype) Familiar Archetype just because it gets Improved and Greater Steal.


So, a potential build would simply be a Tiefling Filcher Rogue 8/something 1. Feats are spent on Combat Expertise, Agile Maneuvers, Graceful Steal, Quick Steal and Skill Focus (Sleight of Hand). We spend our four rogue talents on Sneaky Maneuvers, Minor and Major Magic and on a Familiar.

Assuming something to set up sneak attack (such as a small familiar flanking for us), we get one steal from hitting, another in place of our second melee attack, and one more if we threaten a critical hit (which should be a 25% chance). We use our Sleight of Hand skill for the check, but get a +9 bonus to it (one more level and it's +12), more if we get bonuses from flanking and the like.
Sadly, we can not steal armor or held items. However, we can steal anything fastened or stored, without any sort of penalty. Oh, and our familiar can also try to steal items for us, albeit at a lower chance of success.

[Triskavanski]

So some of the awkward things..

It could be possible I could use my whip to wrap around the enemies head and squeeze it, adjusting it, and use my steal combat maneuver to hypnotize them.

As a rogue, I could use steal combat manuver to hide a weapon while holding it in plain sight.


Probably a cooler thing is using an AoO you could use the steal combat manuver to pluck ammo from weapons as they try to shoot it at you with Slight of hand stunt

[iceifur]

Well, if DSP stuff is allowed, the Mixed Combat (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/feats/mixed-combat-combat) feat is an option. It lets you sheathe weapons as a free action. Just carry around some extra scabbards for storage.

[Triskavanski]

Scabbard of Many Blades (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/MagicWondrousDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Scabbard%20of% 20Many%20Blades) could be pretty much used for the same thing. Using it I could spec out my ability by focusing on flails. That would get me slashing, bludgeoning, and piercing weapons


Step 1: Search Archives of Nethys (http://archivesofnethys.com/Search.aspx) for any mention of the word "steal".
Step 2: look at the finds, determine what's useful and fits together.

Sneaky Maneuvers (https://sites.google.com/site/pathfinderogc/classes/core-classes/rogue/rogue-talents/paizo---rogue-talents/sneaky-maneuver-ex) is a Rogue Talent that allows us to make a steal combat maneuver as a swift action whenever we hit with an attack, and would get sneak attack damage.
Stealing Strike is an Investigator talent that allows us to do the same thing, but with studied strike. Sadly it only comes online at 13th level, and is not as spammable as sneaky maneuver is.

So, the best option here seems to be to take a short two-level dip into Rogue for +1D6 sneak attack (we forfeit the damage anyway) and Sneaky Maneuvers.
This gives us one swift-action steal per round, which is pretty good already and comes online right at level 2.

Quick Steal (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/quick-steal-combat) gives us another Steal per round, in place of a melee attack.

Using a Sticky (http://archivesofnethys.com/MagicWeaponsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Sticky) weapon with a high crit range grants us another potential Steal-maneuver, on a critical threat.

The Pillager (http://archivesofnethys.com/TraitDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Pillager)-Trait gives +1 to Steal and Disarm combat maneuvers. Tieflings can get an alternate racial trait which does the same, and the two stack.

Now, other than the short dip into Rogue, what class would be best for a Steal-focussed build?
Well, since this build is focussed on combat maneuvers, the answer is mostly "any class with full BAB". It gives early access to feats, and it improves the CMB. Of the full-BAB classes, the only ones directly useful to this build are the Cad (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fighter-archetypes/cad)-Fighter and the Corsair (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/swashbuckler/archetypes/paizo---swashbuckler-archetypes/corsair-swashbuckler-archetype)-Swashbuckler. The former just gets a small bonus to steal-checks, but the latter can take a full-round action to make a single attack and automatically steal an item. This would result in four potential steals per round, which is pretty good.
However, there is one interesting Rogue-Archetype: the Filcher (http://archivesofnethys.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Rogue%20Filcher) gets an ability that allows using Sleight of Hand in place of CMB for steal combat maneuvers at 4th level. Better yet, bonuses that would increase your CMB for steal still fully apply. Now this does clash with Graceful Steal, but it's a very good option if you don't want to go for a full-BAB class. Also, Graceful Steal still provides the option for removing objects from packs. Furthermore, at 8th level that archetype eliminates the penalty for doing that.

Oh, and it's worth mentioning the Pilferer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/familiar/familiar-archetypes/pilferer-familiar-archetype) Familiar Archetype just because it gets Improved and Greater Steal.


So, a potential build would simply be a Tiefling Filcher Rogue 8/something 1. Feats are spent on Combat Expertise, Agile Maneuvers, Graceful Steal, Quick Steal and Skill Focus (Sleight of Hand). We spend our four rogue talents on Sneaky Maneuvers, Minor and Major Magic and on a Familiar.

Assuming something to set up sneak attack (such as a small familiar flanking for us), we get one steal from hitting, another in place of our second melee attack, and one more if we threaten a critical hit (which should be a 25% chance). We use our Sleight of Hand skill for the check, but get a +9 bonus to it (one more level and it's +12), more if we get bonuses from flanking and the like.
Sadly, we can not steal armor or held items. However, we can steal anything fastened or stored, without any sort of penalty. Oh, and our familiar can also try to steal items for us, albeit at a lower chance of success.

Ah! you seem to have gotten some of the best stuff here. I totally missed it when I started looking at some of the really awkward things one could do.

Filcher does something I think really should have been more standard to rogue. Too bad it has something that replaces trapsense, otherwise it would have stacked with phantom thief and been really good.