gogogome
2016-05-17, 08:25 AM
I'm getting soooo many different ruling opinions on this from my players and colleagues @_@. Help me understand charm.
1. Charmed creature gives great weight to the directions and suggestions from the charmer. This means the charmed creature will basically believe everything the charmer says unless there is like, undeniable proof that he's wrong. So like, if the charmer says "You're a female human" to a male troll, the troll will think really, really hard about whether he's a human with magically cursed eyes, whether he used to be a female human but turned into a troll in the past, whether his current habits/hobbies are what humans do, whether he's actually a really ugly human girl, etc. but ultimately without some form of proof, the troll will say to his charmer "You're mistaken."
2. Charmed creatures will do things they won't do even for a close friend if they lose a charisma check. This means that as long as the charmer wins the charisma check, he can make the charmed creature do almost anything, like give most if not all of his wealth, work tirelessly day and night to achieve the charmer's goals, etc.
3. The limit of the charisma check is "Grievously Harmful" actions. So a merchant whose dream was making 1million gp, obviously giving 500,000gp to the charmer is grievously harmful so even passing the charisma check wouldn't make him give up his goods, but if its a Paladin who won the lottery for 1million gp, he'll fork it over upon losing the charisma check unless he's the type of guy to give lots of money to his close friends, in which case no charisma check is needed. Of course if he's a really, really greedy paladin or he absolutely needs the money to save a group of sick orphans, the charisma check will fail to make the paladin fork over the money.
4. Orders that are "violently opposed" nets a new saving throw and failing that does not force the creature to perform the action. So if a paladin is ordered to murder a child, he gets a saving throw to break the charm, but if he fails, he still doesn't murder the child even though he failed the charisma check and saving throw.
5. Charm spell effects are way, way beyond those of diplomacy's "friendly" attitude, unless the charisma check is never utilized, but even then, because the charmed creature gives the greatest weight to the charmer's words, it is still significantly more powerful than a creature diplomacy-ed to friendly. Then again, will saves are automatic, and if you tell a guy to voluntarily let this spell affect your mind... at the least you need a charisma check unless the guy is the type of guy that absolutely will not let anything affect his mind, in which case it is impossible. If the guy is the type of guy who regularly allows his mind to be affected then no check needed.
So like, in the case of planar binding, on a successful charisma check, the charmed outsider will accompany, protect, and try its absolute best to help the charmer completely free of charge upon losing its charisma check, but will NOT intentionally fail its saving throw for a 2nd charm monster unless he has 0 spellcraft and is otherwise unable to identify the spell as charm monster.
Oh and...
6. If the charmer wishes to redo a failed charisma check, he can cast charm monster on the charmed creature again to redo the check. If casting the 2nd charm monster is perceived as hostile, the 1st charm ends so there is no conflict. If it is not perceived as hostile and the 1st charm doesn't end, it doesn't matter, because by RAW, the last spell trumps others for spells with "Same effect but differing results". If the creature has 2 charm spells on it simultaneously from the same creature, you still only roll for the charisma check once because the last spell trumps others, meaning the roll of the 1st charm effect is irrelevant as long as the 2nd charm is in effect.
1. Charmed creature gives great weight to the directions and suggestions from the charmer. This means the charmed creature will basically believe everything the charmer says unless there is like, undeniable proof that he's wrong. So like, if the charmer says "You're a female human" to a male troll, the troll will think really, really hard about whether he's a human with magically cursed eyes, whether he used to be a female human but turned into a troll in the past, whether his current habits/hobbies are what humans do, whether he's actually a really ugly human girl, etc. but ultimately without some form of proof, the troll will say to his charmer "You're mistaken."
2. Charmed creatures will do things they won't do even for a close friend if they lose a charisma check. This means that as long as the charmer wins the charisma check, he can make the charmed creature do almost anything, like give most if not all of his wealth, work tirelessly day and night to achieve the charmer's goals, etc.
3. The limit of the charisma check is "Grievously Harmful" actions. So a merchant whose dream was making 1million gp, obviously giving 500,000gp to the charmer is grievously harmful so even passing the charisma check wouldn't make him give up his goods, but if its a Paladin who won the lottery for 1million gp, he'll fork it over upon losing the charisma check unless he's the type of guy to give lots of money to his close friends, in which case no charisma check is needed. Of course if he's a really, really greedy paladin or he absolutely needs the money to save a group of sick orphans, the charisma check will fail to make the paladin fork over the money.
4. Orders that are "violently opposed" nets a new saving throw and failing that does not force the creature to perform the action. So if a paladin is ordered to murder a child, he gets a saving throw to break the charm, but if he fails, he still doesn't murder the child even though he failed the charisma check and saving throw.
5. Charm spell effects are way, way beyond those of diplomacy's "friendly" attitude, unless the charisma check is never utilized, but even then, because the charmed creature gives the greatest weight to the charmer's words, it is still significantly more powerful than a creature diplomacy-ed to friendly. Then again, will saves are automatic, and if you tell a guy to voluntarily let this spell affect your mind... at the least you need a charisma check unless the guy is the type of guy that absolutely will not let anything affect his mind, in which case it is impossible. If the guy is the type of guy who regularly allows his mind to be affected then no check needed.
So like, in the case of planar binding, on a successful charisma check, the charmed outsider will accompany, protect, and try its absolute best to help the charmer completely free of charge upon losing its charisma check, but will NOT intentionally fail its saving throw for a 2nd charm monster unless he has 0 spellcraft and is otherwise unable to identify the spell as charm monster.
Oh and...
6. If the charmer wishes to redo a failed charisma check, he can cast charm monster on the charmed creature again to redo the check. If casting the 2nd charm monster is perceived as hostile, the 1st charm ends so there is no conflict. If it is not perceived as hostile and the 1st charm doesn't end, it doesn't matter, because by RAW, the last spell trumps others for spells with "Same effect but differing results". If the creature has 2 charm spells on it simultaneously from the same creature, you still only roll for the charisma check once because the last spell trumps others, meaning the roll of the 1st charm effect is irrelevant as long as the 2nd charm is in effect.