Has my party members lost their sense of self?

[CrackedChair]

Something rather horrifying happened last session.

The wizard of the party turned into a friggin Green Slaad after a cruel decision by a particularly evil wizard. It was no Polymorph, either. It was if the immoral wizard was anything to go by, a natural-made Slaad.

We had to pretty much stop the session there once we are at a loss of what to do, so I took it upon myself to review the Slaad's some more...

Apparently, the MM says nothing about a creature losing it's memories or sense of what they truly are, but the thing is; it's going to be a hell of a time getting him back.

So, confirm this for me, is it still the same wizard of our party, or is he truly gone until we somehow reverse this?

[Regitnui]

Well, it's now a green slaad. A spellcasting creature of pure chaos. It might very well remember some affection for the rest of the party or some idea that it had an extremely important mission, but it's now a DM-controlled monster. If that seems a bit harsh, give the wizard's player a round or two of 'death scene' where they can use the last remnants of their mind to finish the fight or get far away from its former friends before they look more like prey.

How would you even undo a transformation like that?

EDIT: It might be fun, later on, to have a grey or death slaad teleport into the party's final encounter with a BBEG; the now-evolved former wizard returning to defend its compatriots.

[gfishfunk]

How would you even undo a transformation like that?

Asprin and ointments.

Seriously, though, GM prerogative on how to deal with it. If you GM, create a reversal method as legendary (quest time!) or as mundane (lesser restoration) as you want.

[Slipperychicken]

According to the MM, if it's supposed to be like the Chaos Phage ability that blue slaad have (turns target into a green slaad), then only a wish can reverse the transformation once it's done. Or the DM can say so, which is pretty much a given if he didn't do this by the rules.

Green slaad can polymorph themselves to not look like freaky frog-people. So life should be pretty much normal if he stays in human mode. It doesn't say anything about the base creature's mind being replaced (indeed they retain their memories), so the player should still be in control. Be on the lookout if he starts acting different though, or if the DM took him aside for the transformation, because those usually mean the DM arranged for the player to roleplay a doppelganger.


How would you even undo a transformation like that?

If I was writing the MM, I'd have considered it a curse so that remove curse could undo it. Maybe throw in some text about it being irreversible after a year and a day, so that the players can't do that to every slaad they meet. Either that, or make it so you can kill the slaad and bring the PC back to life, as his immortal soul remembers his true self.

[CrackedChair]

Asprin and ointments.

Seriously, though, GM prerogative on how to deal with it. If you GM, create a reversal method as legendary (quest time!) or as mundane (lesser restoration) as you want.

Hang on, I just remembered something.

We just had a Druid in our party as an NPC once. He looked pretty imposing from the looks of if, but something clicked...

See, it might be painful for us as PC's, but we remember one of our PC's having to be brought back to life by a Reincarnation spell. Our human barbarian was pretty lucky, cause he came back a human once the DM rolled.

Now, I make a check if needed to recall the Druid and it's ability. We mercifully kill the wizard and take a bit of a body part and mummify it so it does not rot. Once we bring it to the Druid, he can fashion out a new body for the wizard... But it might be difficult doing so...

[MaxWilson]

For a while my players were adventuring alongside a Grey Slaad named C'cecc, whose chosen form of simpleminded entertainment was to emulate a Paladin and "slay evil!" Unfortunately he had only the fuzziest notion of what "evil" meant, and on top of that, due to his regeneration and fire resistance he failed to appreciate the need to be careful where you place your Fireballs...

Nevertheless one of the players was quite sad when C'cecc got shredded into chunks of hamburger by Umber Hulks on a neogi deathspider.

[CrackedChair]

For a while my players were adventuring alongside a Grey Slaad named C'cecc, whose chosen form of simpleminded entertainment was to emulate a Paladin and "slay evil!" Unfortunately he had only the fuzziest notion of what "evil" meant, and on top of that, due to his regeneration and fire resistance he failed to appreciate the need to be careful where you place your Fireballs...

Nevertheless one of the players was quite sad when C'cecc got shredded into chunks of hamburger by Umber Hulks on a neogi deathspider.

Oh dear, my condolences to your chaotic friend...

Anyways, next session is due in a couple hours, to determine the outcome of this. Stay tuned.

[gfishfunk]

Are you the DM or a PC?

[CrackedChair]

Are you the DM or a PC?

PC. We had to roleplay as if we had no idea what was going on, until our villain revealed the Slaad to be a PC.

[gfishfunk]

Simple advice is to trust that the GM has a plan, and feel free to offer your own.

[CrackedChair]

Simple advice is to trust that the GM has a plan, and feel free to offer your own.

Sounds alright.

[Slipperychicken]

Simple advice is to trust that the GM has a plan, and feel free to offer your own.

On one hand, if your DM is trustworthy, then you should trust him. But on the other hand you shouldn't allow that to make you complacent in-character. If your characters are aggressive and smart about finding their way out of this, that will make it easier for the DM to present solutions, and you might end up mentioning a solution that the DM ends up adopting himself.

[Sigreid]

The way I'd play it is they do have their self in there somewhere, but they would be like a severe schizophrenia. The chaos that consumes them would have them responding to stimuli that isn't there, they would lash out uncontrollably, laugh etc. without even realize they were doing it. Toss in some paranoia for the voices of chaos egging them on and mocking them, and the occasional and short period of lucidity and understanding of what is exactly happening to him, just do drive home to the party the horror of what is really happening to their friend.

If the player is a really good player, and interested, I'd let him continue to play the character for a while while the party tried to find a cure as long as the player agreed to role play falling ever deeper into severe madness with the intent of truly disturbing the other characters.

[CrackedChair]

Ok, here is how it went...

Evil wizard bites it and our wizard friend gets knocked out. Cleric tried restoring him, but he then claims this can only be restored by divine help, so he uses his divine intervention, and rolls the dice...

And rolls a 10, just enough for it to work. Deity then lifts the froggy up and turns him back into a regular human. DM was a bit disappointed, but he was a good sport and let it slide. Said human then vomits due to the junk he'd probably has been eating as a crazy froggy wizard. Just in time for the next part of the Campaign.

[Vogonjeltz]

Green slaad can polymorph themselves to not look like freaky frog-people. So life should be pretty much normal if he stays in human mode. It doesn't say anything about the base creature's mind being replaced (indeed they retain their memories), so the player should still be in control. Be on the lookout if he starts acting different though, or if the DM took him aside for the transformation, because those usually mean the DM arranged for the player to roleplay a doppelganger.

The book says green slaad transforming into grey/death slaad retain their memories. (MM 274)

It doesn't say victims of the phage retain their personalities, and under also suggests the hosts themselves no longer exist (section under green slaad).

Besides, if they retained their memories it seems implausible that they would attempt to convert others into Slaad. Slaadi invasions only make sense if those turned into slaad truly become slaad, ala a zombie apocalypse.