Destined for Greatness

[Deepbluediver]

When you look at literature, movies, videogames, epic songs or poems, etc., an awful lot of the central characters have some characteristic that makes them seem born to greatness. Either because of who their parents were or what they did or just because fate decrees it to be so, they have something that makes them special, which usually means better than everyone else.
And it's not necessarily bad; a huge number of wonderfully entertaining stories have been told with this as a central theme. And yes, I'm sure example exist where it's not the case (if someone wants to name some, please by all means go ahead). I guess it's just that lately, I'm feeling as if this trope is a bit ... overused.

When I look at mainstream media, it seems like it's harder and harder to find good cases where this doesn't crop up eventually. Superman was the last (kinda-sorta) Krypontian. Aang was the avatar. Harry Potter got his mark as an infant. Naruto had the 9-tailed fox sealed inside him when he was a babe. I quit reading Bleach when Ichigo's father turned out to be a Shinigami or something. It's not even like this is a recent development- lots of heroes of yore were half-god, or something; Achilles got his invulnerability when his mother (a nymph) dunked him in the river Styx shortly after birth. I could go on.

Most of these other characters have something else going for them as well- they don't become a hero JUST because of the circumstances of their birth/early-childhood. And plenty of them certainly get put through hell. But as I've gotten older this trope has had less and less appeal to me. The straw that broke my back was from RWBY, which is normally so great about subverting my expectations. Then in the season 3 finale (spoiler alert) Ruby is told she's special as indicated by the color of her eyes.

And as a kid, sure, I loved it. I definitely waited for my invitation to wizard-school in the mail. But as I've gotten older I'm just getting tired of what feels like the same thing over and over and over again. It's gotten to the point where I sometimes feel like authors are cramming it in because it's on the checklist, not because they planned it all along.
So, tell me what you think. Does my critique have merit? Am I just being overly sensitive?

And thanks for listening to me rant.

[An Enemy Spy]

When you look at literature, movies, videogames, epic songs or poems, etc., an awful lot of the central characters are have some characteristic that makes them seem born to greatness. Either because of who their parents were or what they did or just because fate decrees it to be so, they have something that makes them special, which usually means better than everyone else.
And it's not necessarily bad; a huge number of wonderfully entertaining stories have been told with this as a central theme. And yes, I'm sure example exist where it's not the case (if someone wants to name some, please by all means go ahead). I guess it's just that lately, I'm feeling as if this trope is a bit ... overused.

When I look at mainstream media, it seems like it's harder and harder to find good cases where this doesn't crop up eventually. Superman was the last (kinda-sorta) Krypontian. Aang was the avatar. Harry Potter got his mark as an infant. Naruto had the 9-tailed fox sealed inside him when he was a babe. I quit reading Bleach when Ichigo's father turned out to be a Shinigami or something. It's not even like this is a recent development- lots of heroes of yore were half-god, or something; Achilles got his invulnerability when his mother (a nymph) dunked him in the river Styx shortly after birth. I could go on.

Most of these other characters have something else going for them as well- they don't become a hero JUST because of the circumstances of their birth/early-childhood. And plenty of them certainly get put through hell. But as I've gotten older this trope has had less and less appeal to me. The straw that broke my back was from RWBY, which is normally so great about subverting my expectations. Then in the season 3 finale (spoiler alter) Ruby is told she's special as indicated by the color of her eyes.

And as a kid, sure, I loved it. I definitely waited for mu invitation to wizard-school in the mail. But as I've gotten older I'm just getting tired of what feels like the same thing over and over and over again. It's gotten to the point where I sometimes feel like authors are cramming it in because it's on the checklist, not because they planned it all along.
So, tell me what you think. Does my critique have merit? Am I just being overly sensitive?

And thanks for listening to me rant.

The trope is thousands of years old. Most mythological heroes had divine heritage. People don't put it in stories because they're checking it off a list, they do it because it's been a fixture of heroic tales since prehistoric times and is ingrained in the human psyche.

[HandofShadows]

An Enemy Spy hit it right on the head. Main characters being special has been around a VERY long time. Gilgamesh was supposed to be part god or a demigod is his story is over 4,000 years old.

[Kid Jake]

As has been pointed out, it's a trope that's as old as the hills; though so is deus ex machina and few people seem overjoyed to see that chestnut bandied about in all of their entertainment. It has its place certainly, but if not handled well it seems to just invalidate the character's achievements when literally anybody would excel given *insert destiny here*.

[Deepbluediver]

As has been pointed out, it's a trope that's as old as the hills; though so is deus ex machina and few people seem overjoyed to see that chestnut bandied about in all of their entertainment. It has its place certainly, but if not handled well it seems to just invalidate the character's achievements when literally anybody would excel given *insert destiny here*.

Yes! Exactly! I know it's not new- hence my Achilles example. He was a great warrior but he was also 99% invulnerable through no action of his own. I guess what I'm asking for is stories that are less Achilles and more Odysseus. Less Thor or Wolverine and more The Punisher. Not the best example probably but do you know how hard it is to find a superhero that doesn't qualify for "Born Special" in some way? Even Batman inherited his fortune.

And yes, I know it can be done really well- I admitted as much. But is just SO FREAKIN' PREVALENT that it starts to get boring after a while. I think it should be obvious that I consume a wide variety of media, and it shows up EVERYWHERE. Imagine if for every single story the main character had a scar on the right side of their face, next to their eye. Doesn't impair their vision at all but made them look badass. Now pay attention because I'm talking about EVERY SINGLE ONE. Man, woman, boy, girl, undecided, etc. It could be good, it could be bad, but they ALL have one in the exact same place. Wouldn't that get boring after a while? You'd probably find yourself thinking "can't we at least move the scar around a little"? That's kind of how I feel with this trope lately.

[Leewei]

Subverting this trope really makes for some great comedy. The born hero(es) get annihilated and the second-stringer everymen have to step up.

I also liked what the Harry Potter books did with this trope.
Harry's scar was due to Voldemort's soul fragment. Harry was an unwitting horcrux - somewhat like a lich's phylactery - due to the mark. It did very little aside from making him identifiable to other wizards. His real protection was the ward that his mother placed on him by sacrificing herself to save him as an infant. Voldemort could never understood personal sacrifice. From his perspective, sacrifice was something strictly done to other people.

So Harry won because Voldy was so badly flawed that he couldn't see the situation as anything other than BBEG vs. Chosen One. Neville Longbottom, the butt-monkey of much of the series, is revealed to be the other possible "Chosen One". Either way, the BBEG was doomed by his own belief in a prophecy based on this very trope.

[BannedInSchool]

The Chronicles of Prydain sidestep this somewhat:
At the end of the story our Orphan Farmboy with unknown parentage does become the High King of Britain (or at least Wales), but it's said the book of prophecy was just of potential events, not written in stone foretelling, and the foundling's parents are still never identified. Even in the world where people identify themselves as "Son of" or "of the House of", the assistant pig keeper becomes the High King only because it was possible.

[Cikomyr]

I have heard of stories where the Destined to Greatness is turned on its head to become a tragedy. The pressure of being "the Chosen One" actually damage the kid's psyche and he eventually cracks under the pressure or arrogance.

I suppose Anakin's story qualifies

[Rodin]

One of the more irritating cases for me was Naruto, because it completely eradicated the moral of the first half of the show.

In an early tournament match with Neji, Neji keeps going on about how Naruto is fated to lose. See, Neji is both a genius and a member of the most powerful clan in the village, meaning that he had a huge amount of natural talent AND genetic advantages that put him far above Naruto. Naruto himself was known as a goofball dropout, and also wasn't a member of any particular clan. Neji's point was that the loser beating the genius was nice to dream about, but in actual reality such things didn't happen.

Of course, Naruto wins the fight, and points out to Neji that he knows he's a goofball dropout and thus worked his ass off to overcome his inherent disadvantages. Hard work and persistence paid off, and if you do that you CAN fight fate and change the situation you were born into. Very inspirational message, everybody cheers.

Except...

We find out later that Naruto is actually the son of the Fourth Hokage, so he actually has BETTER genetics than Neji. And furthermore, he's actually the Chosen One, and has inherited god-like powers dating back to the dawn of history. In actual fact, Neji was the one at a massive disadvantage coming into that fight, and it was only Naruto being a screw-up as a kid that made the fight even close.

Good job, Kishimoto. You destroyed your own aesop.

[Vinyadan]

Yes! Exactly! I know it's not new- hence my Achilles example. He was a great warrior but he was also 99% invulnerable through no action of his own. I guess what I'm asking for is stories that are less Achilles and more Odysseus. Less Thor or Wolverine and more The Punisher. Not the best example probably but do you know how hard it is to find a superhero that doesn't qualify for "Born Special" in some way? Even Batman inherited his fortune.

And yes, I know it can be done really well- I admitted as much. But is just SO FREAKIN' PREVALENT that it starts to get boring after a while. I think it should be obvious that I consume a wide variety of media, and it shows up EVERYWHERE. Imagine if for every single story the main character had a scar on the right side of their face, next to their eye. Doesn't impair their vision at all but made them look badass. Now pay attention because I'm talking about EVERY SINGLE ONE. Man, woman, boy, girl, undecided, etc. It could be good, it could be bad, but they ALL have one in the exact same place. Wouldn't that get boring after a while? You'd probably find yourself thinking "can't we at least move the scar around a little"? That's kind of how I feel with this trope lately.

Odysseus? King of Ithaca, heir to a dynasty of heroes, descendant of Hermes or Aeolus according to different versions?

Just read some book by Gogol'. Or The Betrothed, one of the masterpieces of word literature.

[Deepbluediver]

Odysseus? King of Ithaca, heir to a dynasty of heroes, descendant of Hermes or Aeolus according to different versions?
I didn't know Odysseus also descended from the gods, although that would seem to just prove my point- you can't be a hero unless your parents were awesome, too.

In fact one of the only Greek heroes I know without divine lineage then was Jason (correct me if I'm mistaken again). I know that little tidbit because it came up in a series called The Young Olympians by Rick Riordan. In this series, the main characters are almost ALL the sons and daughters of the Olympic gods. And yes, even when everyone is special some characters are "more special" than others (because they are the offspring of the most powerful dieties). The series is well done and enjoyable (don't watch the movie though) in part because the lineage of the characters comes up time and again as a major plot point and because all of the characters contribute in different ways and have chances to look badass.

I'm not saying that "Special" can't be done well. I just wish sometimes that it was a little LESS prevalent. It's like to many stories take the idea that without winning the destiny lottery, you will never be anything more than comedic relief or third-sidekick-from-the-left.

Part of it certainly is how important that specialness is to a character's role in the story. Achilles (sorry to keep coming back to this but it's just such a perfect example) is a warrior and he is invulnerable. That is a central aspect of his character. AFAIK, Odysseus never benefits from being the King of Ithaca in any way. He gets dragged to a war he doesn't seem particularly enthusiastic about, most of his trouble on the way home starts when his crew doesn't listen to him, and when he does get home finally his house is filled with frat-bros who want to steal his stuff and date his hot wife.
So yes, there's definitely a sliding scale for how well it's done and how it's portrayed. But good, bad, or otherwise, it seems to be absolutely everywhere.

Take the RWBY example from my first post- it pissed me off so much precisely because it seems COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY. It was apparently hinted at in the very first episode, but it's never come up since then and I actually had to go back to double-check the quote. We don't need to be told that Ruby is "destined to be a warrior", we've just spent 3 seasons watching her kick ass and be adorkable. But no, you can't be the hero of the story because of skill or intellect or determination or a sense of justice, you will be the hero because you are destiny's special child. And everyone else will be pushed aside to make room for that.

[Knaight]

Yes! Exactly! I know it's not new- hence my Achilles example. He was a great warrior but he was also 99% invulnerable through no action of his own. I guess what I'm asking for is stories that are less Achilles and more Odysseus. Less Thor or Wolverine and more The Punisher. Not the best example probably but do you know how hard it is to find a superhero that doesn't qualify for "Born Special" in some way? Even Batman inherited his fortune.
The problem here is that you're looking for a superhero. Pretty much the core identity of the genre is that there is a person split between two worlds, the one where they are a mundane person and the one where they are a superhero, where access to the second is almost always given to them in some way. You picked the one modern genre which leans on the trope the heaviest.


I didn't know Odysseus also descended from the gods, although that would seem to just prove my point- you can't be a hero unless your parents were awesome, too.

The term hero in the specific context of Greek mythology pretty much directly refers to someone descended from the gods. Even by the standards of antiquity this was leaned on heavily. On top of that, it's worth observing that the culture heroes from a culture with an established aristocracy that is big on the idea of birthright and the superiority of the aristocracy are going to get where they get by birth. There's a reason we see this so heavily in any number of old stories from said cultures. Greek mythology is one big example, but take Arthurian fiction - how many of the knights are the son of some king or other? We've got Arthur, son of Uther, we've got Gawaine, son of Lot, we've got Gawaine's siblings, so on and so forth. Almost anyone who is anyone descends from a king or major noble, because that's the cultural background that went into those works. Yet you do see exceptions even in older works, Palomides and some iterations of Tristan and Percival come to mind.

Now take modern works, and consider which genres use the destined for greatness concept to any real extent. We've got superheroes, which pull conceptually from the american focus on the great individual as a cultural element. We've got fantasy, which pulls from older stories that coexisted with a powerful nobility or aristocracy. We've got incredibly soft sci-fi, which pulls heavily from fantasy due to the blurring of those two genres until they started acquiring some individual definition in the last 50 years or so. Outside of that, the concept is pretty rare. General fiction doesn't use it heavily, mystery doesn't use it heavily, romance doesn't use it heavily, westerns don't use it heavily, so on and so forth. Sherlock Holmes is Sherlock Holmes because he's a genius in his own right, not because he's descended from a line of geniuses. Romance lives on the trope where someone born to power falls for someone from a common background, who is just as good (or better) than those who come from the classes dedicated to greatness in the older form of a romance.

Even the genres listed have been pulling away from the trope recently. Superheroes probably have it the most embedded, but the whole badass normal idea has been canonized, and characters like the Punisher or Judge Dredd embody it. Fantasy has also had the farmboy who becomes a hero trope for ages, and the technically-not-historically-fiction subgenre doesn't use this heavily at all. Incredibly soft sci-fi often doesn't use it at all. Take Star Trek - none of the captains were born to greatness in most iterations, and there has even been occasional treatment of the idea of genetically modifying humans to be better, with it usually not working super well. Abrams's Kirk was to some extent, but even in that work the highly competent supporting cast generally isn't.

Heck, take your Harry Potter example. Yeah, he has the scar and is in some ways destined to greatness. When it comes to magical ability though, Hermione is at least his equal; she's vastly better at the theoretical side. She's born to two muggles. The underlying matter of needing to be born a wizard is still there, but it's a much broader category, and at least within the wizarding world being born a wizard doesn't destine you to greatness at all. Alternately, take Dumbledore, or Snape, or Sirius. Heck, take Voldemort. He's an antagonist, but there's still greatness there and his background has essentially nothing special in it.

Also, if you just want examples I can do that all day long. It's a waste of time for general fiction (doable, but so easily that it's not really worth it), and I don't know superheroes that well, but for the fantasy and soft sci-fi genres where the trope is most prevalent counter examples are incredibly easy and can be provided at length.

[Kitten Champion]

An issue I have is the prevalence of prequels which are intended to lead inexorably to the eventual rise of that IP's status quo - the characters and continuity you're aware of - even if they aren't literally invoking Mythic Destiny the results aren't really any different.

For example, Star Trek: Enterprise was framed around the idea that Jonathan Archer was this great historic Captain that would usher in the Federation. That his decision there and then would manifest into this bedrock of moral authority and smugness that I'm pretty sure fuels the warp drives in the early TNG-era along with Wesley's old sweaters. This being the default assumption of the writers even while their writing was counter-intuitive to that premise, creating this really annoying dissonance.

Point being, in these cases we're the gods with foresight into someone's fate while they're ironically ignorant of it.

[Deepbluediver]

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that this is a bad thing to have you in your story. Lots of wonderfully entertaining works have been written that include it, or even focus on it. But I would be happier if it was just slightly less ubiquitous.


The problem here is that you're looking for a superhero. Pretty much the core identity of the genre is that there is a person split between two worlds, the one where they are a mundane person and the one where they are a superhero, where access to the second is almost always given to them in some way. You picked the one modern genre which leans on the trope the heaviest.
It might be the heaviest but it's hardly the only one where this shows up a lot- that's why I tried to find examples from lots of different forms of media.
Also, I feel like we've moved on a lot from the "secret identity" part of superheroes. Tropes regularly change as cultures develop, so why do we still seem so stuck on this one? Especially at a time when people are more free and more transitional and more in control of their own lives than at almost any other point in history? Why are many of our most successful stories still heavily indebted to characters that get a huge chunk of their power (in whatever form that takes) from actions they themselves basically never participated in?


General fiction doesn't use it heavily, mystery doesn't use it heavily, romance doesn't use it heavily, westerns don't use it heavily, so on and so forth.
I zeroed-in on those because they seem to be the most popular big-ticket items lately. The movies, books, and TV shows that are heavily in pop-culture focus on those kinds of stories.
Sure, stories that don't have anything that vastly separates the norms from the specials won't have it. I'm not anticipating that the next big sitcom will have a main character with super-comedy-powers. But in to many stories where there is something magical/powerful/destiny-related plot device, the main character gets a whole heaping helping of it just from existing.


Also, if you just want examples I can do that all day long. It's a waste of time for general fiction (doable, but so easily that it's not really worth it), and I don't know superheroes that well, but for the fantasy and soft sci-fi genres where the trope is most prevalent counter examples are incredibly easy and can be provided at length.
I never said stories like that don't exist. It's just that lately I've been feeling a bit exasperated by how difficult it seems to be to find a good one where it doesn't feel awkwardly shoehorned in.

If you want to name some examples, go ahead. I'm not asking you to prove me wrong, but I am always looking for good suggestions for new media to consume.


Edit: Back to Harry Potter- it's not just about power. Voldemort was trying to kill Harry because (and my memory is a little fuzzy on this part so correct me if I'm wrong) of a prophecy that Harry (or maybe Nelville, let's not start that debate here) would be the one to defeat Voldemort. Why Harry if there where other stronger/smarter/more-competent wizards around? Was Harry's mother the ONLY PERSON in the entire universe who would-have/did sacrifice her life to save someone they loved? Voldemort and his followers killed lots of people- why couldn't the main character have just been any old survivor or someone who had lost relatives to them? No, it has to be the prophecy-laden dude that Big V tried to off personally.
Harry became the living plot-device only because fate said he was going to be the plot-device.

In other types of stories it's like a character can't just achieve something through determination and hard work or even innate talent, they have to be something special first. Frankly if a character was just born with some kind of an edge, that probably wouldn't bother me as much (assume it was well done). But instead people are only special because their parents were special, and everyone acts like that's inherently BETTER for some reason.

[Rodin]

Edit: Back to Harry Potter- it's not just about power. Voldemort was trying to kill Harry because (and my memory is a little fuzzy on this part so correct me if I'm wrong) of a prophecy that Harry (or maybe Nelville, let's not start that debate here) would be the one to defeat Voldemort. Why Harry if there where other stronger/smarter/more-competent wizards around? Was Harry's mother the ONLY PERSON in the entire universe who would-have/did sacrifice her life to save someone they loved? Voldemort and his followers killed lots of people- why couldn't the main character have just been any old survivor or someone who had lost relatives to them? No, it has to be the prophecy-laden dude that Big V tried to off personally.
Harry became the living plot-device only because fate said he was going to be the plot-device.

In other types of stories it's like a character can't just achieve something through determination and hard work or even innate talent, they have to be something special first. Frankly if a character was just born with some kind of an edge, that probably wouldn't bother me as much (assume it was well done). But instead people are only special because their parents were special, and everyone acts like that's inherently BETTER for some reason.

This one is actually more of a self-fulfilling prophecy. The prophecy happened because, in the future, Harry would kill Voldemort. Voldemort tried to pre-empt that by killing Harry first, and it backfired spectacularly and set up the conditions for the prophecy to come through. Harry wasn't fated to be the one by some grand design - he just happened to be the one that Voldemort decided to go after rather than Neville. If he had gone after Neville, the book series would have been called Neville Longbottom instead.

You can go around and around in circles over initial causality like with anything time travel, but it definitely averts the major problem I have with this trope where the main character is special because they are The Chosen One. As pointed out in various places, Harry isn't all that spectacular at magic. He's decent, and is particularly talented in Defense Against the Dark Arts. But most of his mystique comes from surviving Voldie's attack. He doesn't really benefit from getting special powers others don't have, or suddenly learn ancient techniques that took a martial arts master decades to create in a matter of weeks.

All in all, Harry Potter is one of the least offensive uses of this trope. There's a causality from the initial prophecy, but everything after that is Harry being basically normal and using his wits and friends to get through things.

[Knaight]

If you want to name some examples, go ahead. I'm not asking you to prove me wrong, but I am always looking for good suggestions for new media to consume.


In other types of stories it's like a character can't just achieve something through determination and hard work or even innate talent, they have to be something special first. Frankly if a character was just born with some kind of an edge, that probably wouldn't bother me as much (assume it was well done). But instead people are only special because their parents were special, and everyone acts like that's inherently BETTER for some reason.

Judging by these quotes, I'm assuming that the character being talented is fine, and we're just avoiding destined. Avoiding talented as well is also not all that difficult, but for now lets keep it in. As the list is going to be long, I'm also going to put in a few arbitrary limits just to keep length under control. Everything here is going to be something I read fairly recently, that I both liked and considered fairly good or that is part of genre canon. I'm also going to only have one entry per author per genre, but for at least most of these authors there are a lot of other works that could be chosen instead, and either nothing or next to nothing that has the destined for greatness feel. I'm also going to deliberately avoid classic hard sci-fi, because going into the Clark-Asimov style makes it too easy. This is also going to be a bit written word heavy; that's not because the trope is more prevalent elsewhere but instead reflects my background being way stronger there than with film, comics, etc. Without further ado:

Fantasy Novel, Novella, Novette, or Short Story
The Lions of Al-Rassan (Guy Gavriel Kay)- There are four major protagonists here. One would have had some trouble getting to where he was if not being born noble, but even for him the entire concept of destiny never crops up. The guy is a successful military leader, and that's what makes him work. Another is an ethnic and religious minority who makes her way through life because she is a successful physician, and while that does reflect background to some extent there is again no notion of destiny. Another is a polymath with a bit of a ruthless side, who got through life because he was a great poet, a great warrior, a reasonably competent courtier, and willing to assassinate a powerful leader when their friendship turned sour. Yet another is an everyman who gets involved with the major figures of the previous three.

A Song of Ice and Fire (George R. R. Martin)- Yeah, there's a prophecy. The vast majority of the characters who have anything close to protagonist status have nothing to do with it, and achieve things based on their drive, their talent, etc. Two of the most influential people started out as a slave and an incredibly minor noble, respectively.

The Journey of the Catechist (Alan Dean Foster)- The main protagonist has a special talent, sure. It comes up intermittently at most, is largely unrelated to the major plot of the books, and has nothing to do with being destined to do anything. What kicks the plot off was that the protagonist was both in place to hear the last plea of a dying man, and one of very few people tradition bound enough to follow the cultural obligation to heed that plea despite it being a really dangerous task.

Protector of the Small (Tamora Pierce)- Nobody is chosen for anything. The protagonist takes

Conan the Barbarian (Robert Howard) - The guy isn't a chosen one, the guy has no destiny, he takes greatness with his cunning and

The Alchemist (Paolo Bagliucci) - We've got a scholar, doing what anyone with his knowledge and strength of character and circumstances could do. No destiny, no special birth circumstances, no noble blood, just talent and drive.

Earthsea (Ursula K. Le Guin) - The main character is a mage, but there are lots of people who fit that description. He's not chosen for anything, and what drives the story is said character making a very, very big mistake (that any number of people could have made), and then cleaning up after it.

How the Marquis Got His Coat Back (Neil Gaiman) - This is an urban fantasy story about a trickster character, who outsmarts any number of dangerous people who have access to the supernatural. It's also a good example of the trickster archetype, which is usually somewhat antithetical to the destined/chosen one archetype.

The Scar (China Mieville) - We've got a woman on a ship, an ordinary person, who goes into the unknown and to greatness.

Fantasy Other
Order of the Stick (Rich Burlew) - Getting something in this section felt obligatory, and it is a valid example.

How to Train Your Dragon - The protagonist is meaningfully different than the people surrounding them, but they aren't in any way destined for greatness. They seize an opportunity and run with it.

Sci-Fi Novel, Novella, Novette, or Short Story
Old Man's War (John Scalzi)- The main character is an old man from a backwater planet who joins a military force, and he is one of many. Later in the series, we see a woman who was one of many people grown from childhood to be soldiers.

Dawn (Octavia Butler) - No special birth, no destiny. What makes the main character special is more her willpower and composure than anything; not even talent makes much of an appearance.

Lost and Found (Alan Dean Foster) - An everyman and his dog get abducted by aliens, and try to rise above their circumstances.

Honor Harrington Series (David Weber) - This one is on as a genre classic, so I can't confirm it personally. With that said, my understanding is that Honor has nothing even vaguely destiny or special birth related.

The Dispossessed (Ursula K. Le Guin) - Another scholar, who not only has no special destiny or special designation from birth, but who comes from a culture vehemently opposed to both concepts, lacking even a real class system. Then he finds himself in another culture that does have these things. Not only is the character not destined for greatness, the book is openly hostile to the concept.

A Handmaid's Tale (Margaret Atwood) - You've got your incredibly depressing dystopia, and this one doesn't have some chosen leader who fights against it. Instead, you have someone who struggles to maintain so much as a personal identity in a world that treats her like an ambulatory womb and nothing more.

Atlas Shrugged (Ayn Rand) - Again, we've got a bit of an obligatory inclusion of a genre classic here, and not something that I actually liked. Still, the book is about people who are talented and driven, who achieve greatness through their work, and who then struggle with dealing with the masses. Plus, it goes extremely far in denying so much as cultural influences in how people turn out.

Feed (M. T. Anderson) - Another dystopia, this time about a group of largely normal people who happen to be around when something goes terribly wrong with a technology they all use.

Sci-fi Other
Schlock Mercenary (Howard Taylor) - I figured I should at least make a token effort at having things that aren't just writing, so here's a webcomic entry. There are a few main characters, and while you could make a really tortured argument for one of them being in some way destined, the rest are just not seeing that happen.

Alien - We've got the crew of a space ship, who are a bunch of working class miners who end up in a bad situation.

This is obviously a tiny snippet of the overall list, even with my added restrictions. There are more than a few stories I wanted to put on there, but remembering titles from short story anthologies has never been a strength.

[Blackhawk748]

Wasn't Beowulf just an Irish Merc or something? (i could be wrong on the Irish part) I mean he was talented, but i dont think his birth had much of anything to do with it. Then he goes off and kills Grendel, a Sea Witch and a frelling dragon.

Also, to some extent, Eragon. Yes he's special, but its got nothing to do with his birth, hell it was just dumb luck that he got Saphira's Egg. After that it was Training Montages and Almost Dying until he became very powerful. (Almost Marty Stu levels actually, thankfully that was avoided)

[Deepbluediver]

All in all, Harry Potter is one of the least offensive uses of this trope. There's a causality from the initial prophecy, but everything after that is Harry being basically normal and using his wits and friends to get through things.
It only ever rarely rises to the point of being offensive within a single work- it's the whole pattern that irks me.



Judging by these quotes, I'm assuming that the character being talented is fine, and we're just avoiding destined.
Exactly what I want is hard to define- I'll admit I'm being picky.
Something definitive that benefits the character in a major way or causes them to become the central character to the story that was entirely outside of their control is probably the best I can come up with but I'm sure there would be exceptions even to that. If there are several characters who share a similar backstory or characteristic it's less annoying than "YOU ARE THE CHOSEN ONE!!!".


A Song of Ice and Fire
I stopped reading this after the 4th book because I found it depressing.


Protector of the Small
I've read at least one series by Tamora Pierce- I forget if I also read this one; I'll double check.


Earthsea
I vaguelly recall giving this a try years ago and not liking it, but maybe it's time for another shot.


Order of the Stick
Hahaha, yeah, I was actually thinking of this earlier. None of the main cast got where they are (AFAIK) by benefiting from outside forces and their parents seem to cause more problems than anything.


How to Train Your Dragon
Yeah, this was a fun movie. I'm less sold on the sequel where (spoiler alert) Hiccup's mother is friendly with dragons.


Honor Harrington Series
I've heard of it too. I grew away from the sci-fi genre a bit because of reasons that are off-topic, but I'll look into it.


A Handmaid's Tale
I had to read this for school one summer and I really don't like Dystopia books. If I want to be depressed I'll watch the news.


Atlas Shrugged
Yeah, I'm a die-hard capitalist but I'm not really sold on Ayn Rand's brand of objectivism. My brother likes it though.


Schlock Mercenary
I do like webcomics and I was reading this one for a while. By now I'm not sure I'm down for the archive-trawl necessary to get back up to speed with this one.


Alien
Are we talking about the movie? I'm not really a fan of horror, either. Rugged survival, sure, but the the key there is actually surviving. Post apocalyptic stuff is ok so long as the characters make some kind of progress back to ... if not civilization then at least improvement.


Anything I didn't mention I've probably never heard of before and will look into, at least the cliff-notes version.



Also, to some extent, Eragon.
I read the first book at least. Wasn't thrilled with the ending and never got around to picking up the second.


Also, please not that none of the stuff I said "I didn't like it" is unequivocally bad. Some of it just isn't to my taste for a variety of other reasons and that's fine. If you liked it, GREAT! I appreciate the suggestions all the same.

[miner3203]

Yeah, this was a fun movie. I'm less sold on the sequel where (spoiler alert) Hiccup's mother is friendly with dragons.


There's a book version of How To Train Your Dragon as well (actually, it came before the movies did), and if I can recall from my hazy memories of the first couple books (which was as far as I got before I found another series and never got back to it), destiny doesn't really play a part in anything Hiccup does. The plot is drastically different from that of the movies, so even if you've seen the movie, the book will still be new to you. (Granted, it's written for children, which is somewhat of a deterrent, but I thought they were good back when I read them...)

[Mando Knight]

Wasn't Beowulf just an Irish Merc or something? (i could be wrong on the Irish part) I mean he was talented, but i dont think his birth had much of anything to do with it. Then he goes off and kills Grendel, a Sea Witch and a frelling dragon.

He was Norse.

[Durkoala]

There's a book version of How To Train Your Dragon as well (actually, it came before the movies did), and if I can recall from my hazy memories of the first couple books (which was as far as I got before I found another series and never got back to it), destiny doesn't really play a part in anything Hiccup does. The plot is drastically different from that of the movies, so even if you've seen the movie, the book will still be new to you. (Granted, it's written for children, which is somewhat of a deterrent, but I thought they were good back when I read them...)

Sad to say (for the OP: I still loved it) the How to train your dragon books lean very heavily on this trope, as the author drew a lot from the viking idea of fate.

Hiccup is the son of one of the best heroes of her generation, the great-great-grandson of the last pirate king, the great-grand-nephew of the last Hiccup Horrendous Haddock (which is a bigger deal than it sounds: All three Hiccups are born from fate being defied and become great heroes as a form of karmic retribution against the defiers), the fated killer of the Green Death (the dragon from the first book/movie), the true heir to the pirate king's throne and destined to drive all dragons to extinction. That's a pretty big prophecy list.

[BWR]

Wasn't Beowulf just an Irish Merc or something? (i could be wrong on the Irish part) .

Geatish (Swedish).

[Knaight]

Also, to some extent, Eragon. Yes he's special, but its got nothing to do with his birth, hell it was just dumb luck that he got Saphira's Egg. After that it was Training Montages and Almost Dying until he became very powerful. (Almost Marty Stu levels actually, thankfully that was avoided)
That's how it was, until they upset the whole thing by having Eragon be Brom's kid. Suddenly the whole thing where the two children of Morzan went in different directions due to their upbringings vanished, replaced with a theme about how everyone takes after their parents. The birth is relevant here.


Exactly what I want is hard to define- I'll admit I'm being picky.
Something definitive that benefits the character in a major way or causes them to become the central character to the story that was entirely outside of their control is probably the best I can come up with but I'm sure there would be exceptions even to that. If there are several characters who share a similar backstory or characteristic it's less annoying than "YOU ARE THE CHOSEN ONE!!!".
That is actually less restrictive than what I was going for, so all my examples hold. On top of that, I was just yesterday and today reading an anthology of fantasy short stories (I tend to binge read as soon as not-textbooks become an option). There has been exactly one instance of some chosen one BS, and while it was thoroughly worked in (the title was something to the effect of "Destiny's Child"), everything else in the book had not even a smidge of destined for greatness going on.


Are we talking about the movie? I'm not really a fan of horror, either. Rugged survival, sure, but the the key there is actually surviving. Post apocalyptic stuff is ok so long as the characters make some kind of progress back to ... if not civilization then at least improvement.
We are. Horror's not really my thing either, but it fits in the list and was very well received. It was one of the items on the list because I do like it (as opposed to Atlas Shrugged, which is some of the worst drivel I have ever had the misfortune of reading), but I wasn't super optimistic about reception judging from the list in the OP. Besides, the point of the list is more that there are tons of works where the destined for greatness trope makes no appearance.

[Cikomyr]

Hey. One awesome example that defies the trope is Dragonball. Goku is as far to a "destiny child" as literarily possible. He was a.massive weakling and disapointment, and thus sent to Earth.

From there, he learned to master his strenghts and hone it, whereas usual Sayians would usually just get by on sheer power alone (and giant monkey)

[warty goblin]

One thing I've always liked about Dragonlance is that, in spite of being high fantasy to the nth degree, it never really goes in for prophesy. There's maybe a touch of prophesy nonsense that crops up here and there in Chronicles, but it's pretty minor and could just be due to the gods being better than average at guessing who or what will be important. Really it just gives an air of there being greater, more subtle powers at work, rather than a cast-iron set of predictions about stuff that's gonna go down.

I'll second the Tamora Pierce recommendation. Notably, not only is nobody all that chosen - even if they attract the attention of gods - but they've actually got ambitions and work like hell to fulfill them.

[Starwulf]

One of the more irritating cases for me was Naruto, because it completely eradicated the moral of the first half of the show.

In an early tournament match with Neji, Neji keeps going on about how Naruto is fated to lose. See, Neji is both a genius and a member of the most powerful clan in the village, meaning that he had a huge amount of natural talent AND genetic advantages that put him far above Naruto. Naruto himself was known as a goofball dropout, and also wasn't a member of any particular clan. Neji's point was that the loser beating the genius was nice to dream about, but in actual reality such things didn't happen.

Of course, Naruto wins the fight, and points out to Neji that he knows he's a goofball dropout and thus worked his ass off to overcome his inherent disadvantages. Hard work and persistence paid off, and if you do that you CAN fight fate and change the situation you were born into. Very inspirational message, everybody cheers.

Except...

We find out later that Naruto is actually the son of the Fourth Hokage, so he actually has BETTER genetics than Neji. And furthermore, he's actually the Chosen One, and has inherited god-like powers dating back to the dawn of history. In actual fact, Neji was the one at a massive disadvantage coming into that fight, and it was only Naruto being a screw-up as a kid that made the fight even close.

Good job, Kishimoto. You destroyed your own aesop.


I don't think he did destroy it. Because of Naruto's...neglect basically, it didn't matter WHAT his genetics were, he was a weakling, all the way throughout the Academy. When he faced Neji, he WAS at a significant disadvantage, he had had no special training like Neji, unless you count his short training session with Jirayia to learn how to summon toads. His growth, both physically and mentally was almost certainly stunted due to living on his own in a crappy run-down apartment, drinking spoiled milk and eating almost nothing but ramen. So his beating Neji was, at the time, proving that hard work and perseverance could overcome natural talent.

It wasn't until after his 3 year training trip that his "genetics" got to play any sort of part, by that time he had had one on one time with one of the most powerful ninja of the previous generation, got good nutrition, and had a chance to overcome his crappy start in life(and that's going solely by what's shown in the manga/anime, I'm not even taking into consideration the more likely scenarios that most fanfic writers present, just strictly canon stuff shows his childhood was pretty awful, lacking in social interaction and proper food).

Hell, it's not even until significantly through Shippuden that he even discovers he was someone special, and by then he's put in enough hard work to earn all the power he has anyways, with the exception of the nine-tails which was just given to him(but even then, he spent 2 decades becoming friends with the 9-tails, learning it's real name and showing it that hatred wasn't the only way). Naruto earned every power-up he ever got, unlike some others in the story *cough cough Sasuke cough cough*

[Cikomyr]

On the other hand, the only reason he could beat Neji wasn't because of Hard Work.

The 9-tail just re-opened the close Chakra. Otherwise, he would have been toast.

[Starwulf]

On the other hand, the only reason he could beat Neji wasn't because of Hard Work.

The 9-tail just re-opened the close Chakra. Otherwise, he would have been toast.

Still hard work though, he contacted the 9-tails when Jirayia threw him off the cliff in the hopes of forcing him to use the Kyuubi chakra to summon Gamabunta.(and yes, I see being thrown off a cliff as being hard work, lol) When it worked he told the fox he was going to "expect rent" from then on. In that fight is when he chose to collect the rent. I view it the same as a ninja tool, or food pill, like Kiba used in the preliminary fight, just it's a part of Naruto. He didn't even get a major boost from it, wasn't even enough to overpower Neji's rotation, which we're shown just an arc later as not being infallible against Kidomaru who engulfed Neji in so much sticky spider webbing that it first stopped his rotation, and then prevented him from utilizing it again. If I had to guess I'd say not even half a tails worth of power was given, maybe even less as his facial characteristics either didn't change, or just barely(it's been a while, but I know his fangs didn't elongate or anything, which is characteristic of the first tail on).