How good is Armageddon?

[magicalmagicman]

I've been toying around with wyrm wizard and shadowcraft mages, and this spell caught my interest.

First it summons 2d4 avorals.
2 rounds later it summons 1 ghaele
2 rounds later it summons 1 astral deva.

Normally it sacrifices a character level, that's right, SACRIFICES A CHARACTER LEVEL, but as a shadow spell, you can ignore that.

Now Wyrm Wizard for those who don't know, basically adds 2 spells from any class to your class and is treated as arcane spells at the cost of 1 spellcasting level.

So in your guy's opinion, is Armageddon good? Is it good enough to select it with wyrm wizard? (You're comparing it to spells like Genesis, which is noncombat)

[Gildedragon]

Sanctified spells aren't part of a class list so they might not be accessible to Wyrm Wizard.

[magicalmagicman]

Sanctified spells aren't part of a class list so they might not be accessible to Wyrm Wizard.

That's an interesting point. Does that mean I can't add domain spells with wyrm wizard? Ye gods... that would make me lose 90% of my interest in wyrm wizard.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Two things:

1) The shadow illusion class feature doesn't say that the conjuration (summoning) and conjuration (creation) spells that are faked with the image line have to be on your class list.

2) Wyrm Wizard explicitly says you can pull spells from off-list, without exception. Not that it matters, since you can scribe armageddon into your book regardless. All sanctified spells can be prepared by any prepared caster. A wizard or archivist still has to put them in their book but that's it.


Now if you want a gem worth the lost spellcasting of wyrm wizard; wu-jen's body outside body is just tits for anything even a little gishy or if you can create skull talismans or the like. Transcend mortality is pretty crazy too, if you don't mind dying at the end of its duration or grab a work around like pact of return or death pact.

[magicalmagicman]

Two things:

1) The shadow illusion class feature doesn't say that the conjuration (summoning) and conjuration (creation) spells that are faked with the image line have to be on your class list.

2) Wyrm Wizard explicitly says you can pull spells from off-list, without exception. Not that it matters, since you can scribe armageddon into your book regardless. All sanctified spells can be prepared by any prepared caster. A wizard or archivist still has to put them in their book but that's it.


Now if you want a gem worth the lost spellcasting of wyrm wizard; wu-jen's body outside body is just tits for anything even a little gishy or if you can create skull talismans or the like. Transcend mortality is pretty crazy too, if you don't mind dying at the end of its duration or grab a work around like pact of return or death pact.

1) Shadowcraft Mage specifically says the altered spell can only be a sorcerer or wizard spell... If you're a wizard or sorcerer wyrm wizard turns that spell into a wizard or sorcerer spell for you only, which is what the combo relies on.

2) "select one spell from any class's spell list (including divine spells)" makes it by RAW, only spells on class spell lists.

And holy crap! Pact of Return is OP as crazy! Miracle->Pact of Return + Transcend Mortality! Wow!

[Andezzar]

That's an interesting point. Does that mean I can't add domain spells with wyrm wizard?Yup, by RAW, but not that many domain spells are only on the domain list, so you might get them from some class list. You might have to hunt through a lot of books though.

[Kelb_Panthera]

1) Shadowcraft Mage specifically says the altered spell can only be a sorcerer or wizard spell... If you're a wizard or sorcerer wyrm wizard turns that spell into a wizard or sorcerer spell for you only, which is what the combo relies on.

2) "select one spell from any class's spell list (including divine spells)" makes it by RAW, only spells on class spell lists.

And holy crap! Pact of Return is OP as crazy! Miracle->Pact of Return + Transcend Mortality! Wow!

That's what I get for going from memory, I suppose.

Still, there's an argument to be made that sanctified spells are on -all- prepared caster spell lists, rather than none of them. Though, of course, you can get the effect for 500xp if you just get a thought bottle to offset the official cost (there's a reason I ban that function of the stupid thing. Way too potent.)

[Tiri]

Armageddon isn't that bad. It summons more creatures than Summon Monster IX, although on the other hand there's a lot less choice of creatures. There are also many better things to do with 9th level spell slots, like stopping time, turning into practically anything or gating in vastly superior monsters, among many others.