What exactly counts as an improvised weapon?

[Arkhios]

How far would you stretch the definition of an improvised weapon?

For example, would a plated gauntlet or steel greaves count as improvised weapons when worn, or would an attack with a gauntlet or greaves fall into unarmed strikes?

[Hrugner]

I just use it to cover using anything as a weapon in a fashion other than it's intent. So you could hold a spear as if it were a quarter staff and use it as an improvised quarter staff. For striking with armor I have to assume that the unarmed strike rules are meant for people wearing armor. I'd probably let it go though, the game isn't going to break if someone can use their armor as an improvised club.

Also it's probably not a big deal since the way to gain proficiency with improvised weapons also lets you do 1d4 unarmed damage.

[Ninja_Prawn]

I agree. Unarmed strike incorporates things like gloves and boots - and something like a spiked gauntlet should be statted out as a formal weapon, not an improvised one.

On the other hand, if you take off a gauntlet and slap someone about with it, I'd call that an improvised weapon. Equally if you pull off a boot and throw it at someone, Sir Alex Ferguson style.

[Arkhios]

On the other hand, if you take off a gauntlet and slap someone about with it. I'd call that an improvised weapon. Equally if you pull off a boot and throw it at someone, Sir Alex Ferguson style.

This made me laugh!

Imagine a Paladin challenging a rival for a duel, and adding some extra punch from Divine Smite to show the opponent he means business ;P ...and if the target drops from the "challenge", imagine what blow to his or her reputation would that be :D

editing: focking typoes...

[Vogonjeltz]

How far would you stretch the definition of an improvised weapon?

For example, would a plated gauntlet or steel greaves count as improvised weapons when worn, or would an attack with a gauntlet or greaves fall into unarmed strikes?

No in both cases. "An improvised weapon includes any object you can wield in one or two hands" (PHB 147)

Neither the gauntlet nor the greaves are being wielded in one or two hands in this example, they're being worn.

[Jarlhen]

Improvised weapons annoy me a little bit. Mostly because of strength. Someone who has 20 strength can carry 200lbs without being encumbered. They can pull or push 1,000lbs. But to my knowledge it never specifies how much you can wield, as in swing. And this is problematic when it comes to improvised weapons. Once you grab the tavern brawler feat you become proficient in improvised weapons. One build I hear about often is a goliath as they get increased carry capacity, coupled with the tavern brawler feat and then using other people as weapons. And while I find the build silly the point might be valid, why wouldn't a goliath be able to swing something that's 100lbs in weight? Specially if he proficiency in it. I can't remember what a greatsword weighs in D&D but let's say 10lbs. It does 2d6 damage. Why wouldn't a goliath be able to wield a 100lbs greatsword? And why wouldn't that greatsword do 10d6 damage? They are proficient with improvised weapons, for all intents and purposes they can manipulate enormous amounts of weight. The only technicality is that it never specifies wielding or swinging, that's what I've been holding on to. But by RAW why couldn't they? Someone help me as I genuinely don't know what kind of limitations can be put.

[Karion]

Improvised weapons annoy me a little bit. Mostly because of strength. Someone who has 20 strength can carry 200lbs without being encumbered. They can pull or push 1,000lbs. But to my knowledge it never specifies how much you can wield, as in swing. And this is problematic when it comes to improvised weapons. Once you grab the tavern brawler feat you become proficient in improvised weapons. One build I hear about often is a goliath as they get increased carry capacity, coupled with the tavern brawler feat and then using other people as weapons. And while I find the build silly the point might be valid, why wouldn't a goliath be able to swing something that's 100lbs in weight? Specially if he proficiency in it. I can't remember what a greatsword weighs in D&D but let's say 10lbs. It does 2d6 damage. Why wouldn't a goliath be able to wield a 100lbs greatsword? And why wouldn't that greatsword do 10d6 damage? They are proficient with improvised weapons, for all intents and purposes they can manipulate enormous amounts of weight. The only technicality is that it never specifies wielding or swinging, that's what I've been holding on to. But by RAW why couldn't they? Someone help me as I genuinely don't know what kind of limitations can be put.

Well, a bigger weapon is sorta mentioned in the Enlarge/Reduce spell as doing +1d4 damage, so you could model it like that e.g. the Goliath rips out a tree and smashes you with it, does 2d4. I think any weapon over your own size category you might have the strength to lift, but that does not make it comfortable to use. I would suggest if you want to use an even larger improvised weapon it's -5 to hit, +1d4 to damage.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Someone help me as I genuinely don't know what kind of limitations can be put.

As a DM, you have to use your common sense. It's your table, your setting, your game. If you think something is ridiculous (for example, I know that I can lift a table, but I certainly can't wield one as a weapon with any degree of effectiveness), then make a ruling. Thinking about verisimilitude, it stands to reason that a goliath could wield slightly oversized weapons that would deal slightly more damage, but it's probably sensible to just say "I'm not allowing that for game balance reasons."

[Daishain]

If the gauntlet in question wasn't designed for offensive use, sure, I'll count it as an improvised weapon.

If it was, it would technically be in the same weapon category as a Cestus, I'd probably stat it out as a simple weapon that deals 1d6.

[JellyPooga]

e.g. the Goliath rips out a tree and smashes you with it, does 2d4.

*sigh* This is a trend I've been noticing that is really starting to bug me. I know this is probably going to open a can of worms-that-walk but very few improvised weapons deal only 1d4 damage (I appreciate that Karion has implemented the "houserule" of +1d4 damage, but he's also assumed a base damage of 1d4 and that's what I take issue with).


An object that bears no resemblance to a weapon deals 1d4 damage

Quite a lot of things bear some resemblance to weapons; a tree, for example, bears a striking resemblance to a big stonking club. At the very least, it will deal 1d10 bludgeoning damage and have the Two-Handed trait. I'd probably rule that it's Heavy, too. If I was feeling generous, I might even rule (using the rules in the paragraph preceding the above quotation) that anyone proficient with Greatclubs can swing a tree using that proficiency.

The 1d4 damage rule is for objects that aren't weapons at all. A small rock (such as might fit in one hand) is not a weapon; 1d4 damage. A wand or a book, a shard of glass or a small object that would only be represented by weapons with 1d4 damage anyway, such as a broken bottle; these things all default to the 1d4 damage rule assuming they can reasonably be used as an improvised weapon. A 100lb. rock smashed on someones head, on the other hand, is more akin to something a catapult or mangonel might fire; several d10's are probably in order (see pg.255 DMG) assuming a character has the strength to wield it.

Anyone claiming that a giant rock or a tree only deals 1d4 damage is not thinking with their GM hat and they're certainly not following the rules.

On the subject of what can be wielded; an easy houserule might be any object that weighs under half your encumbered limit (i.e. 2.5xStr) can be wielded. A Str 20 Goliath could wield a 50lb. tree branch, but a Str 8 Halfling would be unable to swing a 30lb. bench.

[RickAllison]

Some notes about damage by the books:

As was pointed out, 1d4 is the catch-all for improvised weapons that have no similarities to actual ones.

The +1d4 from Enlarge is specific to that spell. Page 278 of the DMG covers larger sizes of weapons in general. Large weapons double damage dice, Huge triple, and Gargantuan quadruple, and generally one can wield a weapon a size larger with constant disadvantage (so generally a Medium creature could only wield Large at most).

A Huge boulder, for example, might qualify as a 3d10 while a Large one would be 2d10. The damage is different than it would be for something like a mangonel because those are weapons dedicated to firing that ammunition and so have different damage. In truth, I would say that just swinging the Boulder around would be more like Xd6 damage rather than Xd10.

[Karion]

*sigh* This is a trend I've been noticing that is really starting to bug me. I know this is probably going to open a can of worms-that-walk but very few improvised weapons deal only 1d4 damage (I appreciate that Karion has implemented the "houserule" of +1d4 damage, but he's also assumed a base damage of 1d4 and that's what I take issue with).



Quite a lot of things bear some resemblance to weapons; a tree, for example, bears a striking resemblance to a big stonking club. At the very least, it will deal 1d10 bludgeoning damage and have the Two-Handed trait. I'd probably rule that it's Heavy, too. If I was feeling generous, I might even rule (using the rules in the paragraph preceding the above quotation) that anyone proficient with Greatclubs can swing a tree using that proficiency.

The 1d4 damage rule is for objects that aren't weapons at all. A small rock (such as might fit in one hand) is not a weapon; 1d4 damage. A wand or a book, a shard of glass or a small object that would only be represented by weapons with 1d4 damage anyway, such as a broken bottle; these things all default to the 1d4 damage rule assuming they can reasonably be used as an improvised weapon. A 100lb. rock smashed on someones head, on the other hand, is more akin to something a catapult or mangonel might fire; several d10's are probably in order (see pg.255 DMG) assuming a character has the strength to wield it.

Anyone claiming that a giant rock or a tree only deals 1d4 damage is not thinking with their GM hat and they're certainly not following the rules.

On the subject of what can be wielded; an easy houserule might be any object that weighs under half your encumbered limit (i.e. 2.5xStr) can be wielded. A Str 20 Goliath could wield a 50lb. tree branch, but a Str 8 Halfling would be unable to swing a 30lb. bench.

This is actually way more reasonable that what I was suggesting - due to, in parts, me not reading thoroughly through the DMG about weapons with different weapon sizes (or improvised weapons for that matter), and actually imagining someone hugging the whole huge tree two-handed and swinging it around like in a cartoon :smalltongue:

[JumboWheat01]

Don't forget about the greatest improvised thrown weapon, the halfling. Especially if your DM is kind enough or a big enough believer of Rule of Cool to allow you (the halfling) to use your reaction and make a weapon attack after you sail through the air and land on the poor sod you were thrown at.

[Hrugner]

Why bother being thrown when you can throw yourself with your feet?

[Arkhios]

Why bother being thrown when you can throw yourself with your feet?

That depends how far can you reasonably "throw yourself with your feet" a.k.a. jump, as opposed to how long is an improvised weapon range? I'm AFB but if I recall, the range was actually quite long.

Back to the topic, I know that technically anything you wear in your hands or feet should be counted normally as unarmed strikes, but I began to wonder that, maybe, if the equipment in question was heavy enough (e.g. heavy steel gauntlets vs thick leather gloves), they could quite probably and reasonably add some serious punch to your fist-fighting, if you have the know-how. I don't think the steel gauntlets are designed to be weapons, just mainly for protection, so by this reasoning, they could, in my honest opinion, be seen as improvised weapons.

[Malifice]

How far would you stretch the definition of an improvised weapon?

For example, would a plated gauntlet or steel greaves count as improvised weapons when worn, or would an attack with a gauntlet or greaves fall into unarmed strikes?

Pretty much anything counts man. Even a weapon being used in a manner it wasnt designed (a sword pommel to bash someones brains out) is an 'improvised' weapon.

[JackPhoenix]

And while I find the build silly the point might be valid, why wouldn't a goliath be able to swing something that's 100lbs in weight? Specially if he proficiency in it. I can't remember what a greatsword weighs in D&D but let's say 10lbs. It does 2d6 damage. Why wouldn't a goliath be able to wield a 100lbs greatsword? And why wouldn't that greatsword do 10d6 damage? They are proficient with improvised weapons, for all intents and purposes they can manipulate enormous amounts of weight. The only technicality is that it never specifies wielding or swinging, that's what I've been holding on to. But by RAW why couldn't they? Someone help me as I genuinely don't know what kind of limitations can be put.

A lot of reasons, momentum being the most important. Even if Goliath is strong enough to use that horrible thing, it would take time to make it start moving, and then to make it stop. It would be easy to dodge (disadvantage on attack?), and if you miss, you can't easily change direction to attack from other side (limited to one attack a turn?), it would also throw you out of balance and open you for an easy counterattack, because there's no way you could move it fast enough to parry incoming blows (advantage on attacks against you?). Goliath weights what, 300 lb? Try to swing a third of your body weight around repeatedly and notice what it does with your balance.

Even if the goliath had the strength to use that stupid oversized thing, he would be much better with choosing speed, control and precision of a normal-sized over sheer weight (even for pure kinetic energy, speed is the more important factor than mass: Ek=(m*v2)/2)

As for RAW, normal greatsword is 10lb and does 2d6, large greatsword, if you double its size in every dimension (about on pair with an average anime sword), it would be 10x2x2x2= 80 lb (which, not by coincidence, is the weight of Cloud's Buster Sword in RL (https://www.destructoid.com/cloud-s-buster-sword-weighs-80-pounds-in-real-life-254138.phtml) , and does 4d6 according to the DMG. Huge would be 8x that weight (640 lb) and do only 6d6 damage, gargantuan (the largest size in D&D) would be 5120 lb, and "only" for 8d6 damage. No way to get 10d6 (maybe as falling object from 1000 feet? RAW, only the falling creature or object takes the damage, no mention of anything it hits)

edit: whoops, 5e got greatsword's weight right at 6 lb, the numbers in the last parts are off, the weight would be a little over half of what's mentioned there. The damage would stay be the same, though.

[Belac93]

I once had a player who took tavern brawler and dual-wielded frying pans as clubs. He was also a paladin, and used divine smite to make up for his lower damage. And he ended up having something like 18 strength at level 1.

That was a weird game.

[MrStabby]

So a shield seems a pretty popular improvised weapon. Mainly fighters that use it as you need two weapon fighting to add str to it and tavern brawler for proficiency.