Could a godless cleric disguise himself as a cleric of a deity with same domains ?

[Conradine]

Pratical example.

A Cleric, inside a temple of Boccob, follows all the tenets and rules of his religion. He pursue knowledge and magical lore, help other clerics in research and copying duties, spread knowledge and respect for magic at every occasion, obey every order from his superiors ecc. He have access to Magic and Knowledge and is True Neutral, as Boccob.

Little problem: he's not a cleric of Boccob. Although he ( genuinely ) agree on every single point of Boccob's doctrine, he gains power from the abstract idea of knowledge: a godless cleric.
When he prays, with the other monks or alone, he's instead meditating on abstract concepts.

He keeps his ideas for himself and never talks about to anyone.

In your opinion, would he be exposed as a false cleric?

[MisterKaws]

Well, being a Cleric that completely agrees with Boccob, and a knowledgeable one at that, I actually think there's a good chance that the clergymen would want to keep you around, even if they found out the truth, simply because they care for magic knowledge over all else.

[Geddy2112]

Absolutely-if a cleric worships and upholds an ideal(s), they should know who the major divine players are who also like those ideas. Often times it might be beneficial for the cleric to do so, particularly if the ideals they worship are upheld by multiple deities of an opposing alignment.

I see this happening more in reverse, that a cleric of a god that is not openly worshiped in an area(a good cleric in an evil city, evil cleric in a good city) is probably going to pass themselves off as a cleric of a deity who is openly tolerated and shares domains. A godless cleric of an unpleasant, illegal, or not tolerated ideal would probably be accepted if they could find an accepted deity who holds those domains and say that they are theologians of those aspects of the deity.

There are some magical ways to detect if somebody shares your faith, but few would think to use detect the faithful if the domain worshiping cleric is lock step in mind with the clergy.

[Gildedragon]

This sort of thing would also be the sort of thing urpriests would do to erode the religion from within; subtly corrupt the doctrine and incite others to find solace in something else, like ideals.

[Jack_Simth]

Pratical example.

A Cleric, inside a temple of Boccob, follows all the tenets and rules of his religion. He pursue knowledge and magical lore, help other clerics in research and copying duties, spread knowledge and respect for magic at every occasion, obey every order from his superiors ecc. He have access to Magic and Knowledge and is True Neutral, as Boccob.

Little problem: he's not a cleric of Boccob. Although he ( genuinely ) agree on every single point of Boccob's doctrine, he gains power from the abstract idea of knowledge: a godless cleric.
When he prays, with the other monks or alone, he's instead meditating on abstract concepts.

He keeps his ideas for himself and never talks about to anyone.

In your opinion, would he be exposed as a false cleric?To the other priests? Absolutely. He'll have a unique holy symbol, so the first time he casts a spell that needs a Divine Focus, he's outted - well, if anyone with so much as a single rank in Knowledge(Religion) is around, which is not a given for Clerics - unless he's actively taking measures to conceal such (in which case, it's probably Perception vs. either Slight of Hand or Disguise; might be a Will save involved, depending on how it's done). Depending on the manner of worship and routine at the particular institution, it might be obvious very quickly that he's not using the standard prayers, which would out him to anyone with knoweldge(Religion). Depending on the fluff of divine spells in the campaign, it may be obvious the first time he casts something with verbal components, divine focus or no.

Whether or not getting outted matters to the other priests (and any other NPC, really) is setting, area, and table specific. Player reactions are as always up to the players.

[Psyren]

This sort of thing would also be the sort of thing urpriests would do to erode the religion from within; subtly corrupt the doctrine and incite others to find solace in something else, like ideals.

How would that erode Boccob's religion? Whether you pray to him or not, you're advancing everything he cares about. In fact, the spells themselves might even be coming from him, even though you never actually ask him for any.

[Gildedragon]

How would that erode Boccob's religion? Whether you pray to him or not, you're advancing everything he cares about. In fact, the spells themselves might even be coming from him, even though you never actually ask him for any.

There is a difference between advancing the god's portfolio (which many gods might simultaneously share) and advancing worship of the god (what gives them their power). Advancing the pursuit of knowledge over veneration of Boccob; or put the deity in the back burner might erode faith in the god itself, have people venerate the concepts of learning and magic more than they venerate the deity.

[Conradine]

If the godless Cleric spreaded doubt, skepticism and discord that could erode the faith but the particular Cleric of the OP keeps his ideas for himself.

He prays as the others, does the things that the others do, even use the same symbol and formulas for the prayers.


It's just that when he says Boccob he's not truly thinking to " Boccob - deity " but to " Boccob - archetipal concept that simbolize the quest for knowledge and magic ecc. ".

[Psyren]

There is a difference between advancing the god's portfolio (which many gods might simultaneously share) and advancing worship of the god (what gives them their power). Advancing the pursuit of knowledge over veneration of Boccob; or put the deity in the back burner might erode faith in the god itself, have people venerate the concepts of learning and magic more than they venerate the deity.

But that pursuit is Boccob's purpose, whether you attach his name to it every morning or not. Again, why would he be against that?

As for their power coming from their worshipers, that is specific to Forgotten Realms; Greyhawk deities like Boccob don't care if you worship him or not.

[Ashtagon]

Bad example. Boccob doesn't care.

[Techwarrior]

In A Horse and His Boy Aslan spoke of this to a devout Calormen who worships Tash, but acts in a chivalrous and honorable manner. Basically what he said amounts to, "When you prayed, I listened. When you did just things in the name of Tash, I accepted those deeds. When you looked to Tash for help, it was I who guided you. Tash would never accept the man you are, would never honor your deeds done in his name."

What I'm saying is, if you follow the deity in all but name, you still follow the deity. If you fully support their principles, methods, and what they venerate, you follow that deity.