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nick_crenshaw
2016-05-19, 01:56 AM
I could use some help in figuring how to eliminate the LA of this race:

Gray Runners
• +2 Strength, +2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, +4 Wisdom, -2 Intelligence.
• Medium: As Medium creatures, gray runners have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
• Gray Runner base land speed is 40 feet.
• Scent: Gray runners can identify familiar odors just as humans do familiar sights. They can detect opponents within 30 feet by sense of smell. If the opponent is upwind, the range increases to 60 feet; if downwind, it drops to 15 feet. Strong scents, such as smoke or rotting garbage, can be detected at twice the ranges noted above. Overpowering scents, such as skunk musk or troglodyte stench, can be detected at triple normal ranges. When a gray runner detects a scent, the exact location of the source is not revealed-only its presence somewhere within range. The creature an take a move action to note the direction of the scent.
• Weapon Familiarity: Gray runners may treat tomahawk as brawling weapons rather than exotic weapons.
• Tracking by Scent: A gray runner with the Track feat and the can follow tracks by smell, making a Wisdom (or Survival) check to find or follow a track. The typical DC for a fresh trail is 10 no matter what kind of surface holds the scent). The DC increases or decreases depending on how strong the quarry’s odor is, the number of creatures, and the age of the trail. For each hour that the trail is cold, the DC increases by 2. The ability otherwise follows the rules for the Track feat. Creatures tracking by scent ignore the effects of surface conditions and poor visibility.
• Bite: Gray runners can make a bite attack for 1d6 damage plus Strength modifier. When using the full-attack action with a one-or two-handed melee weapon, they may choose to also use the bite attack, though the bite attack suffers a -5 penalty on the attack roll.
• Gray runners receive a +4 racial bonus to Knowledge (Pack) checks.
• Automatic Languages: Common and Pack. Bonus Languages: Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, and Orc.
• Favored Class: Raider. A multiclass gray runner’s raider class does not count when determining whether she takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing.
• Level Equivalent: +1.

AuraTwilight
2016-05-19, 02:45 PM
Uh, give them waaaay less ability score bonuses?

nick_crenshaw
2016-05-19, 05:18 PM
Uh, give them waaaay less ability score bonuses?

• +2 Constitution, +2 Wisdom, -2 Intelligence.

Does this work?

AuraTwilight
2016-05-20, 01:52 PM
Better, but if your ability score modifiers still add up to more than +0, plus all those other features the race has, it's still deserving of an LA +1.

Libro
2016-05-20, 03:25 PM
I could use some help in figuring how to eliminate the LA of this race:

Gray Runners
• +2 Strength, +2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, +4 Wisdom, -2 Intelligence.
• Medium: As Medium creatures, gray runners have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
• Gray Runner base land speed is 40 feet.
• Scent: Gray runners can identify familiar odors just as humans do familiar sights. They can detect opponents within 30 feet by sense of smell. If the opponent is upwind, the range increases to 60 feet; if downwind, it drops to 15 feet. Strong scents, such as smoke or rotting garbage, can be detected at twice the ranges noted above. Overpowering scents, such as skunk musk or troglodyte stench, can be detected at triple normal ranges. When a gray runner detects a scent, the exact location of the source is not revealed-only its presence somewhere within range. The creature an take a move action to note the direction of the scent.
• Weapon Familiarity: Gray runners may treat tomahawk as brawling weapons rather than exotic weapons.
• Tracking by Scent: A gray runner with the Track feat and the can follow tracks by smell, making a Wisdom (or Survival) check to find or follow a track. The typical DC for a fresh trail is 10 no matter what kind of surface holds the scent). The DC increases or decreases depending on how strong the quarry’s odor is, the number of creatures, and the age of the trail. For each hour that the trail is cold, the DC increases by 2. The ability otherwise follows the rules for the Track feat. Creatures tracking by scent ignore the effects of surface conditions and poor visibility.
• Bite: Gray runners can make a bite attack for 1d6 damage plus Strength modifier. When using the full-attack action with a one-or two-handed melee weapon, they may choose to also use the bite attack, though the bite attack suffers a -5 penalty on the attack roll.
• Gray runners receive a +4 racial bonus to Knowledge (Pack) checks.
• Automatic Languages: Common and Pack. Bonus Languages: Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, and Orc.
• Favored Class: Raider. A multiclass gray runner’s raider class does not count when determining whether she takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing.
• Level Equivalent: +1.

• +2 Constitution, +2 Wisdom, -2 Intelligence.

Does this work?

The ability adjustments do bring it closer, but there are still some potent abilities that bring it to +1 LA. I'd suggest making the tracking by scent a racial bonus feat; that should help lower it a little more.

What do Knowledge (Pack) checks apply to?

nick_crenshaw
2016-05-20, 03:36 PM
Better, but if your ability score modifiers still add up to more than +0, plus all those other features the race has, it's still deserving of an LA +1.

The ability adjustments do bring it closer, but there are still some potent abilities that bring it to +1 LA. I'd suggest making the tracking by scent a racial bonus feat; that should help lower it a little more.

What if I also drop the Bite attack?


What do Knowledge (Pack) checks apply to?

Knowledge of the Pack, or what Greyrunners call themselves (like Native Americans calling themselves "the People").

Libro
2016-05-21, 08:13 AM
What if I also drop the Bite attack?
If the bite attack was removed in addition to the tracking by scent, this is what would be left:

Gray Runners
• +2 Constitution, +2 Wisdom, -2 Intelligence.
• Medium: As Medium creatures, gray runners have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
• Gray Runner base land speed is 40 feet.
• Scent: Gray runners can identify familiar odors just as humans do familiar sights. They can detect opponents within 30 feet by sense of smell. If the opponent is upwind, the range increases to 60 feet; if downwind, it drops to 15 feet. Strong scents, such as smoke or rotting garbage, can be detected at twice the ranges noted above. Overpowering scents, such as skunk musk or troglodyte stench, can be detected at triple normal ranges. When a gray runner detects a scent, the exact location of the source is not revealed-only its presence somewhere within range. The creature an take a move action to note the direction of the scent.
• Weapon Familiarity: Gray runners may treat tomahawk as brawling weapons rather than exotic weapons.
• Gray runners receive a +4 racial bonus to Knowledge (Pack) checks.
• Automatic Languages: Common and Pack. Bonus Languages: Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, and Orc.
• Favored Class: Raider. A multiclass gray runner’s raider class does not count when determining whether she takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing.

In my opinion, that should be fine without LA.

nick_crenshaw
2016-05-21, 02:25 PM
If the bite attack was removed in addition to the tracking by scent, this is what would be left:

Gray Runners
• +2 Constitution, +2 Wisdom, -2 Intelligence.
• Medium: As Medium creatures, gray runners have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
• Gray Runner base land speed is 40 feet.
• Scent: Gray runners can identify familiar odors just as humans do familiar sights. They can detect opponents within 30 feet by sense of smell. If the opponent is upwind, the range increases to 60 feet; if downwind, it drops to 15 feet. Strong scents, such as smoke or rotting garbage, can be detected at twice the ranges noted above. Overpowering scents, such as skunk musk or troglodyte stench, can be detected at triple normal ranges. When a gray runner detects a scent, the exact location of the source is not revealed-only its presence somewhere within range. The creature an take a move action to note the direction of the scent.
• Weapon Familiarity: Gray runners may treat tomahawk as brawling weapons rather than exotic weapons.
• Gray runners receive a +4 racial bonus to Knowledge (Pack) checks.
• Automatic Languages: Common and Pack. Bonus Languages: Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, and Orc.
• Favored Class: Raider. A multiclass gray runner’s raider class does not count when determining whether she takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing.

In my opinion, that should be fine without LA.

How about this:

Gray Runners
• +2 Constitution, +2 Wisdom, -2 Intelligence.
• Medium: As Medium creatures, gray runners have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
• Gray Runner base land speed is 40 feet.
• Scent: Gray runners can identify familiar odors just as humans do familiar sights. They can detect opponents within 30 feet by sense of smell. If the opponent is upwind, the range increases to 60 feet; if downwind, it drops to 15 feet. Strong scents, such as smoke or rotting garbage, can be detected at twice the ranges noted above. Overpowering scents, such as skunk musk or troglodyte stench, can be detected at triple normal ranges. When a gray runner detects a scent, the exact location of the source is not revealed-only its presence somewhere within range. The creature an take a move action to note the direction of the scent.
• Weapon Familiarity: Gray runners may treat tomahawk as brawling weapons rather than exotic weapons.
• Gray runners receive a +2 racial bonus to Knowledge (Pack) checks and Survival checks when tracking.
• Automatic Languages: Common and Pack. Bonus Languages: Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, and Orc.
• Favored Class: Raider. A multiclass gray runner’s raider class does not count when determining whether she takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing.

Libro
2016-05-21, 03:26 PM
How about this:

Gray Runners
• +2 Constitution, +2 Wisdom, -2 Intelligence.
• Medium: As Medium creatures, gray runners have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
• Gray Runner base land speed is 40 feet.
• Scent: Gray runners can identify familiar odors just as humans do familiar sights. They can detect opponents within 30 feet by sense of smell. If the opponent is upwind, the range increases to 60 feet; if downwind, it drops to 15 feet. Strong scents, such as smoke or rotting garbage, can be detected at twice the ranges noted above. Overpowering scents, such as skunk musk or troglodyte stench, can be detected at triple normal ranges. When a gray runner detects a scent, the exact location of the source is not revealed-only its presence somewhere within range. The creature an take a move action to note the direction of the scent.
• Weapon Familiarity: Gray runners may treat tomahawk as brawling weapons rather than exotic weapons.
• Gray runners receive a +2 racial bonus to Knowledge (Pack) checks and Survival checks when tracking.
• Automatic Languages: Common and Pack. Bonus Languages: Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, and Orc.
• Favored Class: Raider. A multiclass gray runner’s raider class does not count when determining whether she takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing.

That should be fine.

Takewo
2016-05-21, 03:45 PM
Silly question, bu what system is that for?

nick_crenshaw
2016-05-21, 04:04 PM
Silly question, bu what system is that for?

It is for 3rd, 3.5, or Pathfinder (I hope).