Where to get help against Elder Gods

[Caedes]

Hello All,

As the Title suggests. Looking for alternatives to get help against Elder Evil Gods. In the world this is taking place the Good Deities are overly apathetic. And all the Evil Deities would gladly help... in exchange for the souls of the adventurers, servitude forever... etc. etc. etc.

It is a mostly good/Neutral party that does not want to give in to the dark side.

:D

[Inevitability]

We're going to need a little more information.

What are these elder gods exactly? How powerful are they? What do they want? What are they associated with? Can they be reasoned with? Does the setting have any forgotten artifacts that are powerful enough to seal those gods away and are located in five thematic locations guarded by evil monsters?

But that said, if they're somewhere near an actual god in power, you won't be able to kill them with anything short of full Wish & Word cheese.

[Flickerdart]

Killing gods is easy - get levels until you are stronger than them, then punch them in the face. If the threat is not imminent, find your favourite source of immortality and hop to.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Killing gods is easy - get levels until you are stronger than them, then punch them in the face.
Isn't that how everyone deals with gods? The OP was asking for alternatives.

Anyway...

Pandorym is an elder evil especially known to be a god-slayer. Of course, defeating one elder evil with another is a bit shady, but if you happen to have a handle on Pandorym...

Other decent options include copying the entire multiverse, and starting over from scratch somewhere else. For that, I recommend talking to the Lady of Pain, or piloting the Observatorium away from this multiverse.

[Inevitability]

Pandorym is an elder evil especially known to be a god-slayer. Of course, defeating one elder evil with another is a bit shady, but if you happen to have a handle on Pandorym...

Pandorym is perhaps the strongest of all elder evils, though. Pandorym in his completed form can slay gods (and rather easily, in fact). His mind and body are separated, but you don't even face one of those: you fight a shard of Pandorym's mind, which is an epic-level challenge all by itself.

That reminds me, though. If any of the elder gods in question is psionic, the Annalus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/psionicArtifacts.htm#annulus) can destroy it completely.

[Caedes]

We're going to need a little more information.

What are these elder gods exactly? How powerful are they? What do they want? What are they associated with? Can they be reasoned with? Does the setting have any forgotten artifacts that are powerful enough to seal those gods away and are located in five thematic locations guarded by evil monsters?

But that said, if they're somewhere near an actual god in power, you won't be able to kill them with anything short of full Wish & Word cheese.

There are two, to be more precise.

The first one is slowly cooking this plane and all others to eat them when they are ripe. (More like a problem for another group as we have learned at least the plane we are on is a couple millennium away from being properly cooked.)

The more and bigger present danger is one that wants to destroy all planes as soon as possible. He is doing it by spreading his body throughout the planes and infesting creatures, mortal, devil, demon, angel does not matter. And as he infests them he destroys their souls.

We have tried finding forgotten artifacts and lore and they always lead to let's say the Avatar of Vecna who will gladly help if we become undead slaves of his. Or an emissary of the Elder Evil that is slowly cooking everything.

And yes. There is always the answer of just leveling and trying to punch him in the face... But that would be boring. We have a great group of Roleplayers, and thankfully for our group Rocket Tag is not always the answer.

:D

[Flickerdart]

The more and bigger present danger is one that wants to destroy all planes as soon as possible. He is doing it by spreading his body throughout the planes and infesting creatures, mortal, devil, demon, angel does not matter. And as he infests them he destroys their souls.
And the gods won't stop this guy? Then they are not Good. Inform their churches of this threat (with evidence, preferably) and have their high priests intercede.

[Caedes]

And the gods won't stop this guy? Then they are not Good. Inform their churches of this threat (with evidence, preferably) and have their high priests intercede.

We have done that. Found the most Lawful good Church of Paladins we could find. Showed them the infested corpse of an infested angel. And they pretty much shriveled in fear.

I am having a feeling that the DM has weakened the good deities of this plane and their religions.

I would personally not live here.

[Flickerdart]

Try other churches? Make sure everyone knows about this threat. See if people are willing to help you even if their gods aren't.

Are you guys the only adventurers on this case?

[Starbuck_II]

What about neutral gods?
They won't require souls, but might want a quest or something in exchange.

[Inevitability]

Are the Elder Gods still considered 'gods'? The actual answer doesn't really matter, but you'll know what to do next.

If they are considered gods, release Pandorym. Of course, you'll have to deal with pandorym being lose afterwards, but he's lawful. A bargain of some sort where he gets to kill one plump juice deity before going back in his cage might be possible.

If they aren't considered gods, fling a Sphere of Annihilation at them.

[Jack Mann]

The Elder Gods are traditionally the enemies of the Great Old Ones. So your first step is going to be waking Cthulhu from his eternal slumber under R'lyeh. Attempt not to go mad while you do so. If possible, get someone else to do the actual awakening. Make sure to leave some informational pamphlets about for his perusal so he will know about this Elder God.

Once Cthulhu learns about the Elder God, he will attempt to destroy it. If he fails, then hopefully he will have weakened it enough for the lily-livered regular gods to take it out. If Cthulhu survives, then simply have the local god of the seas launch boats at him. Boats are, of course, the one weapon proven to be effective in harming him.

[Telonius]

Try recruiting some Chaotic gods. If they try to argue that the Elder Gods are Chaotic too, accuse them of blindly following the role that others expect them to play. The really chaotic thing would be to do what's least expected, namely helping out.

[Caedes]

The Elder Gods are traditionally the enemies of the Great Old Ones. So your first step is going to be waking Cthulhu from his eternal slumber under R'lyeh. Attempt not to go mad while you do so. If possible, get someone else to do the actual awakening. Make sure to leave some informational pamphlets about for his perusal so he will know about this Elder God.

Once Cthulhu learns about the Elder God, he will attempt to destroy it. If he fails, then hopefully he will have weakened it enough for the lily-livered regular gods to take it out. If Cthulhu survives, then simply have the local god of the seas launch boats at him. Boats are, of course, the one weapon proven to be effective in harming him.


This... Just so... Hilarity.


What about neutral gods?
They won't require souls, but might want a quest or something in exchange.

Has been brought up. It has merit. Though thus far have not found any Neutral deities in this world.



Try recruiting some Chaotic gods. If they try to argue that the Elder Gods are Chaotic too, accuse them of blindly following the role that others expect them to play. The really chaotic thing would be to do what's least expected, namely helping out.

Diplomancing with Chaos... I like it.

[Jack Mann]

Also, real talk time. It's possible your GM just wants to see how you would take out an elder god, but there's a very strong chance he has a specific plan he's waiting for you to enact. Watch for clues. If he keeps shooting down your plans, you might want to talk to him out of character about it. A simple "Is there a specific way you want us to do this?" should do. Explain that you arent picking up on this plan, and see if he can lay on some better guidance.

A common error GMs make is to have a specific quest idea in mind, but to forget that what's obvious to him (since he created the situation and he already knows the answer) is not obvious to players. That might not be the case here, but you need to watch for it. It would be a great pity if your game was derailed due to lack of communication.

[Starbuck_II]

The Elder Gods are traditionally the enemies of the Great Old Ones. So your first step is going to be waking Cthulhu from his eternal slumber under R'lyeh. Attempt not to go mad while you do so. If possible, get someone else to do the actual awakening. Make sure to leave some informational pamphlets about for his perusal so he will know about this Elder God.

Once Cthulhu learns about the Elder God, he will attempt to destroy it. If he fails, then hopefully he will have weakened it enough for the lily-livered regular gods to take it out. If Cthulhu survives, then simply have the local god of the seas launch boats at him. Boats are, of course, the one weapon proven to be effective in harming him.

Wouldn't a god of boats be a more sensible option. Cthulhu would, of course, fear this guy. And with luck, the god of boats isn't evil.

[icefractal]

We have tried finding forgotten artifacts and lore and they always lead to let's say the Avatar of Vecna who will gladly help if we become undead slaves of his. Or an emissary of the Elder Evil that is slowly cooking everything.He wants payment from you? If anything, it should be the reverse - a god has much more to lose from this planes-destroying menace than you do. After all, you're mortal, you might end up dying for unrelated reasons before the bad stuff happened. But Vecna ... even if he survives, he'll lose all his worshippers, and I can't imagine a pile of cosmic dust has very many interesting secrets.

So my conclusion would be that either:
A) You're being played; Vecna fully intends to take action against the Elder God already, but figures he might as well get some new minions for free if you're offering.
B) Vecna is as powerless as the good-aligned gods are against this thing, and is just bluffing.
C) The so called "Elder God" is simply a ploy by Vecna to gain more power. He's just killing people with Hand of Death and using a divinely-enhanced illusion to make it look like "elder god corruption".

However, trying to haggle with a god is probably going to fail. So I recommend to sign up with either the slow-cooking Elder God (thousands of years ... it's not your problem), or Pandorim (the other gods being destroyed sounds like no big loss, if they're all evil or useless).

[HolyDraconus]

He wants payment from you? If anything, it should be the reverse - a god has much more to lose from this planes-destroying menace than you do. After all, you're mortal, you might end up dying for unrelated reasons before the bad stuff happened. But Vecna ... even if he survives, he'll lose all his worshippers, and I can't imagine a pile of cosmic dust has very many interesting secrets.

So my conclusion would be that either:
A) You're being played; Vecna fully intends to take action against the Elder God already, but figures he might as well get some new minions for free if you're offering.
B) Vecna is as powerless as the good-aligned gods are against this thing, and is just bluffing.
C) The so called "Elder God" is simply a ploy by Vecna to gain more power. He's just killing people with Hand of Death and using a divinely-enhanced illusion to make it look like "elder god corruption".

However, trying to haggle with a god is probably going to fail. So I recommend to sign up with either the slow-cooking Elder God (thousands of years ... it's not your problem), or Pandorim (the other gods being destroyed sounds like no big loss, if they're all evil or useless).Elder Gods are supposed to be epic campaigns. Meaning epic spells are on the table. So why not Teleport thru time Epic Style and prevent that particular Elder God from existing? Caramon did it (cool points if you caught that). If negating preexistance is off the table, then shunting it outside Time may be a good option too. And if all else fails, the American way is to leave it for someone else to clean up (push it thru to a different dimension?)

[Kelb_Panthera]

Elder titans. They're a little less powerful than gods but only a little and they should be a bit more numerous. The catch is that they're harder to find and it may prove difficult to get them to help except by showing that the coming threat will threaten them as well.

[Vizzerdrix]

Isnt Pazzuzu known for being super helpful towards paladins? Retrain into paladin, then give him a call and ask where you can get additional aid.

[Caedes]

Also, real talk time. It's possible your GM just wants to see how you would take out an elder god, but there's a very strong chance he has a specific plan he's waiting for you to enact. Watch for clues. If he keeps shooting down your plans, you might want to talk to him out of character about it. A simple "Is there a specific way you want us to do this?" should do. Explain that you arent picking up on this plan, and see if he can lay on some better guidance.

A common error GMs make is to have a specific quest idea in mind, but to forget that what's obvious to him (since he created the situation and he already knows the answer) is not obvious to players. That might not be the case here, but you need to watch for it. It would be a great pity if your game was derailed due to lack of communication.

We had a discussion with the GM to do just this. And we got a little more information. This world as it is, is the result of a past group of his. They were evidently quite the Evil group and in order to "Save" the world they pretty much screwed over all the "Good/Neutral" powerful beings. Which explains why any of the public "good" churches we have visited are very weak. I get the impression that this entire plane is shifting to an "Evil" alignment.



He wants payment from you? If anything, it should be the reverse - a god has much more to lose from this planes-destroying menace than you do. After all, you're mortal, you might end up dying for unrelated reasons before the bad stuff happened. But Vecna ... even if he survives, he'll lose all his worshippers, and I can't imagine a pile of cosmic dust has very many interesting secrets.

However, trying to haggle with a god is probably going to fail. So I recommend to sign up with either the slow-cooking Elder God (thousands of years ... it's not your problem), or Pandorim (the other gods being destroyed sounds like no big loss, if they're all evil or useless).

I am getting the feel this is the DMs style. As far as the Slow-cooking Elder God goes. We have met one of his acolytes. Who also said he would help but we would have to become vassals of his god giving up our own free will. (I.E Undead Minion by any other name).



Elder Gods are supposed to be epic campaigns. Meaning epic spells are on the table. So why not Teleport thru time Epic Style and prevent that particular Elder God from existing? Caramon did it (cool points if you caught that). If negating preexistance is off the table, then shunting it outside Time may be a good option too. And if all else fails, the American way is to leave it for someone else to clean up (push it thru to a different dimension?)

We are level 12...


hmmmmmm. I would love to be playing my 3.5 Epic level Cleric of Shaundakul about now. :D

[Flickerdart]

Sounds like your DM is fond of the ol' railroad school of gaming - no matter what you do, you must end up as slaves to a greater power.

Are there planes with good alignments? At level 12 you should be able to plane shift to wherever you want, and literally knock on the gates of the gods.

[Caedes]

Sounds like your DM is fond of the ol' railroad school of gaming - no matter what you do, you must end up as slaves to a greater power.

Are there planes with good alignments? At level 12 you should be able to plane shift to wherever you want, and literally knock on the gates of the gods.

That is the next goal. As soon as we get our Cleric to realize they can do that.

[ZeroiaSD]

Opponents of the Elder Gods-

Flumps are weak, but know of them and will warn you about them and try and aid you by providing information.


The Dominion of the Black is powerful and opposed to the Dark Tapestry, but almost as bad themselves.


Check the normal places- any aliens on your world, any people who've had revelations and are now in asylums, etc..

And try and find evil beings of power that you can throw into the Elder God's path by helping them see conflicts of interest, rather than necessarily deals. Figure out what the EG's most likely to destroy, and the gods who's plans would be most threatened by that (even if said plans are horrible). Like, Asmodeus and Devils normally have interest in civilization.