Some questions about Astral Plane

[Conradine]

1) Would a Mordenkainen Magnificient Mansion work on the Astral Plane?

- if yes, would the extradimensiona mansion have the timeless trait of Astral Plane?
- if yes, could then a mage or cleric travel to the astral plane, hole up in a MMM and live there forever?

2) Would a Marut chase a mortal that established on the Astral Plane in order to live forever?


ADDITIONAL QUESTION

In your opinon, the Astral Plane is more or less dangerous than the Material Plane?

[Falcon X]

2. I highly doubt a Marut would chase someone who utilized the Astral Plane for aging purposes. Otherwise, they would hunt down every creature on the Astral Plane. For an inevitable to come after you, you have to break some law of the universe. The Astral Plane works as intended for those inside it.
Now, if your game hinges on this idea, you might make the huntee be doing something especially strange. Perhaps he has opened up a permanent planar bubble upon himself with the astral plane, so it's like he is always there even when he isn't. I'm thinking of Ignus from Planescape: Torment type stuff.

[Conradine]

Understood.

So, Maruts would not chase an hermit, I guess.

[Inevitability]

Githyanki have entire civilizations on the astral plane, and I've never heard of them getting attacked by inevitables.

[Kelb_Panthera]

1) Yes, yes, and yes. Extradimensional spaces are not demiplanes or dimensional travel. Imagine a handkerchief. Push small indentation into the middle of it, then pinch the edges of the depressioin shut so that there's a little hollow space separated from the rest of the fabric. The kerchief is the plane you're on and the little pocket you've created is the extradimensional space.

2) Maruts don't care as long as you're not cheating to prolong your life artificially. Being on a timeless plane and prolonging your life naturally isn't cheating.

[Conradine]

Thanks Kelb. This was a good explanation. Now the extradimensional issue is clearer for me.

[MisterKaws]

Maruts wouldn't chase you, but Quaruts would without a second thought.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Maruts wouldn't chase you, but Quaruts would without a second thought.

Why? You're not screwing with time itself. You're not screwing with how it affects you. You're just in a place where it doesn't, and isn't supposed to, flow normally. This is a pretty clean-cut loophole in mortality with some notable sacrifices.

You don't get to eat (it doesn't get processed and you'll eventually be too full to continue eating...... ever), durations of negative effects never lapse, you have to abandon whatever life you have on the material, the view outside your window is a never-ending, never-changing, moderately-lit void that is interspersed with small islands of rock, and going anywhere else on the wheel means that you resume aging normally (in most places) or age even faster than normal (in some variant planes) unless you're a spellcaster who is powerful enough to cast astral projection or someone wealthy enough to acquire a means to produce the spell's effect.

If your character is determined to avoid death by old-age, this is a valid way to do so that won't garner any attention or animosity from anyone.

[Conradine]

I guess a spellcaster could largely benefit from having all the time, calm, and also space he needs ( a Marvellous Mansion is quite large ) to study, meditate, experimentate. With a little creativity he could also grow a botanic garden ( using spells to artificially grow the plants ) so he can exercise some potion brewing too. He can bring in ( or build ) a golem or two and spar, slowly honing his martial skills.

Or he can play with illusions, included illusory food ( and alchool ).

On that issue, an ethical question.
If a spellcaster creates a semi-solid interactive, but non sentient, illusion ( Shadow Conjuration ) and does horribly heinous things to it, could this be considered an evil action?

[MisterKaws]

Why? You're not screwing with time itself. You're not screwing with how it affects you. You're just in a place where it doesn't, and isn't supposed to, flow normally. This is a pretty clean-cut loophole in mortality with some notable sacrifices.

You don't get to eat (it doesn't get processed and you'll eventually be too full to continue eating...... ever), durations of negative effects never lapse, you have to abandon whatever life you have on the material, the view outside your window is a never-ending, never-changing, moderately-lit void that is interspersed with small islands of rock, and going anywhere else on the wheel means that you resume aging normally (in most places) or age even faster than normal (in some variant planes) unless you're a spellcaster who is powerful enough to cast astral projection or someone wealthy enough to acquire a means to produce the spell's effect.

If your character is determined to avoid death by old-age, this is a valid way to do so that won't garner any attention or animosity from anyone.

The post is exactly about a caster doing it. You don't want to give time to casters.

Also, Quaruts are pretty strict about anyone messing with time, even if it only affects themselves.

[Conradine]

I guess that if a caster finds a way to weaponize a timeless or time altered demiplane, it could attract Quaruts attention.

But if he just holes up in his Marvellious Mansion, never to be seen again, I think he could slip under the radar.

[Kelb_Panthera]

The post is exactly about a caster doing it. You don't want to give time to casters.

Also, Quaruts are pretty strict about anyone messing with time, even if it only affects themselves.

But he's not messing with time. Time is doing exactly what it's supposed to in that place, which is nothing. A non-caster can accomplish the same thing (minus the magnificent mansion, which is irrelevant) by finding natural portals and vortices to other planes and eventually working his way to the astral that way.

Quaruts exist to protect time from being deliberately manipulated, maliciously or carelessly, and to put an end to such machinations where they find such. That's not happening here. If that were the case, quaruts would have to be constantly scouring the astral and killing -every- living being they find there.


I guess that if a caster finds a way to weaponize a timeless or time altered demiplane, it could attract Quaruts attention.

That's very doable. Planar shepards for dal quor or xoriat using their planar bubble might count, so might anyone abusing genesis and acorn of far travel. Teleport through time should be anathema to them. There are effects and tricks that can garner a quarut's attention but simply living on the astral isn't one of them.


But if he just holes up in his Marvellious Mansion, never to be seen again, I think he could slip under the radar.

He wouldn't be worth a ping anyway.

[LTwerewolf]

I think people are under the misconception of "if it involves time, Quaruts are going to hunt you down." That's not the case.

[Inevitability]

I think people are under the misconception of "if it involves time, Quaruts are going to hunt you down." That's not the case.

"ADVENTURER. DO YOU EXPERIENCE TIME LINEARLY AT THE RATE OF ONE SECOND PER SECOND?"
"Er... yes?"
"YOU MUST BE DESTROYED."

Seriously though, this guy is right.

[tropical_punch]

To add on to all this. Time still flows on the Astral. It just doesn't affect you. If you spend an hour in the astral plane, an hour will have passed on the Prime Material. You just won't be an hour hungrier, or thirstier, or have had that time impact the duration of effects that are affecting you.

So Quaruts really just aren't going to care.

[jiriku]

+1 to all of Kelb's interpretations of extradimansional spaces in the astral plane.



ADDITIONAL QUESTION

In your opinon, the Astral Plane is more or less dangerous than the Material Plane?

The Astral is much less dangerous. The astral plane is mostly empty space. Very little dangerous weather. Very few predators. Most of the time you'd expect to have no encounters at all. When you do have encounters, they'll likely be with more powerful entities than you'd encounter on a material plane, but many of those will be travelers who are on their own business. Travelers are not hunting food or claiming territory, so they have little incentive to cause you trouble. So basically, just avoid the githyanki and you'll probably be ok.


On that issue, an ethical question. If a spellcaster creates a semi-solid interactive, but non sentient, illusion ( Shadow Conjuration ) and does horribly heinous things to it, could this be considered an evil action?

So basically we're talking about an illusionary sex toy? No, doing bad things to an illusion isn't evil. Even torturing an illusion wouldn't be evil, although I'd think that only an evil being would want to engage in recreational torture in the first place.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Just noticed the extra question.

It's mildly less dangerous than the material. There are dangerous astral natives and bad weather does happen but all in all it's just not that bad compared to most other planes. As long as you keep your distance from the color pools and/or any githyanki strongholds, it's pretty unlikely that you'll be smote by some major threat.

On the other hand, there -is- a 5% chance per hour of travel to have an encounter (same as travelling through a desert). The astral is the multiverse's crossroads, after all. So it's not completely safe either.

[Mr Adventurer]

The Astral is more dangerous, because there's nowhere to hide from Astral Krakens.

[Kelb_Panthera]

The Astral is more dangerous, because there's nowhere to hide from Astral Krakens.

There's virtually nowhere to hide from a sand-devil in most deserts either and visibility isn't limited to 600 feet like it is on the astral which -does- have randomly floating astral bodies.

There are places on the material where simply being in those places can get you killed, no encounter necessary, same as exceedingly large swathes of the inner planes and, unlike any of those places, you're not in any danger of starvation or dehydration on the astral. The environment itself is very "meh" while the denizens aren't dramatically more threatening than anything native to the material. The average is probably just a little bit higher but otherwise it's a wash in the foes department.

So in a nutshell:

Astral: only the creatures pose a threat and that threat is only slightly greater than the material.

Material: threats from creatures, exposure, deprivation, hazardous environs, and even time.

The astral is -slightly- less dangerous, overall.

[Conradine]

So basically we're talking about an illusionary sex toy? No, doing bad things to an illusion isn't evil. Even torturing an illusion wouldn't be evil, although I'd think that only an evil being would want to engage in recreational torture in the first place.


Well, mabye a character has some devious desires, or harsh grudges, but he wants to hurt no one ( due moral boundaries, fear of consequences or - probably - both ) so he pour up his desires / frustrations on a semi real shadow puppet.