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Sky
2016-05-19, 04:01 PM
Hey, all. As many people are aware, the Pathfinder Fighter is not so great. With limited class features, little flavor, and little staying power, itís usually left behind fairly quickly by more versatile classes. Archetypes help somewhat with the flavor issue, but they replace the unique class features, not the pile of feats. They also don't tend to add much versatility.

The idea is to make an improvement to the fighter that is easy to implement for the DM, easy to use as the player, and easily compatible with archetypes and other things built off the original fighter. I hope Iíve succeeded. :smallbiggrin:

Improved Fighter:

Unchanged: Hit Dice, Class Skills, Weapon and Armor Proficiencies, Bonus feats

This part of the class seems fine to me.

Skill points per level: 4 + Intelligence bonus

This really should be the minimum for all classes, in my opinion.

Removed: Bravery, Weapon Training, Armor Training, Weapon Mastery, Armor Mastery

These are all replaced by Daring and Heroic Acts.

Added: Daring Acts, Heroic Acts

Daring Act: At first level, every odd level thereafter, and at level 20, a fighter may select a Daring Act from the list below. Some Daring Acts have prerequisites, and some may only be selected by fighters of a certain level. Most Daring Acts may only be taken once, unless otherwise noted. Daring Acts and Heroic Acts are based on your levels in fighter, not your total character level. (Unless otherwise noted.)
Heroic Act: At 13th level and beyond, a fighter may select a Heroic Act in place of a Daring Act. Heroic Acts are special Daring Acts which may only be selected by characters with at least 13 levels in fighter.

This is the core of the improvement. Like rogue talents, alchemist discoveries, and barbarian rage powers, now fighters have something that they can do that is unique to them. This also gives a modularity to the improvement that lets it be easily modified.

Sky
2016-05-19, 04:02 PM
Daring Acts


Armor Training
Might as well
Prerequisites: Fighter level 3rd
Benefit: Works like the original class feature gained at level 3; advances like the original class feature at the appropriate levels.

Backstab
Itís not just rogues who can find weak spots.
Prerequisites: none
Benefit: You can sneak attack just like a rogue of half your fighter level (minimum +1d6).

Counter Spell
Youíve been hit with enough spells to know how to counter them.
Prerequisites: Fighter level 7th
Benefit: A number of times per day equal to your dexterity modifier, you may make an attack roll as an immediate action as a reaction to another person casting a spell that targets you or includes you in the area of effect. If your attack roll would beat an AC equal to the casterís caster level plus twice the spell level, you have successfully countered the spell, and it is resolved as if you had counterspelled the spell.
Special: You may only counter a spell with a spell level equal to or less than one-half your fighter level.

Dirty Fighter
You fight like a rogue.
Prerequisites: Fighter level 5th
Benefit: When you select this Daring Act, you may select a rogue talent that a rogue equal to your fighter level Ė 4 could qualify for. You may now use that rogue talent. If the rogue talent is limited in use, you are subject to the same restrictions. You may not select a rogue talent that modifies Sneak Attack unless you already possess Sneak Attack.
Special: If you have rogue levels, this Daring Act lets your fighter levels add to your rogue levels for the purposes of determining what rogue talents you may qualify for. Your effective rogue level is equal to your rogue level plus your fighter level minus four.

Eagle Eyes
You can see things that others might miss.
Prerequisites: none
Benefit: You receive a competence bonus on Perception checks to notice invisible or ethereal creatures equal to your fighter level. This bonus also applies on Perception checks to notice illusions as illusions. In addition, if your chance to hit a creature is reduced by blur, partial cover, partial concealment, etc., that miss chance is reduced by 5% for every two fighter levels you have.

Extra Feat
In case you need thirty feats.
Prerequisites: none
Benefit: You may choose any one feat for which you qualify. You gain that feat.
Special: This Daring Act may be taken more than once.

Furious Fighter
You fight like a barbarian.
Prerequisites: Fighter level 5th
Benefit: When you select this Daring Act, you may select a barbarian rage power that a barbarian equal to your fighter level Ė 4 could qualify for. You may now use that rage power. If the rage power is limited to only being used while in rage, you may use it up to (3 + Con Modifier) rounds per day; if it is limited to once per rage, you may use it up to (Con modifier) rounds per day.
Special: If you have barbarian levels, this Daring Act lets your fighter levels add to your barbarian levels for the purposes of determining what rage powers you may qualify for and their level-dependent effects. Your effective barbarian level is equal to your barbarian level plus your fighter level minus four. If you have barbarian levels, rage powers you select through this Daring Act can be used as often as if you could use them if you selected through your barbarian class.

Hit the Deck
You know when to get out of the way.
Prerequisites: none
Benefit: As an immediate action, you may drop prone when targeted by a ranged attack, spell, spell-like ability, or any other effect which requires a ranged attack roll. If you choose to drop prone, you gain not only the +4 bonus to your AC against ranged attacks from being prone, but also gain an additional +4 circumstance bonus to all ranged attacks until the end of the round or you stand up from being prone, whichever comes first.
Special: Being prone imposes a -4 Penalty to your AC against melee attacks; this Daring Act does not add to this penalty, but it does not reduce it, either.

Gish
You mix magical and martial training.
Prerequisites: Ability to cast 1st-level spells
Benefit: Each time you select this Daring Act, you gain new spells per day as if you had also gained a level in a spellcasting class to which you belong. You do not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained, except for additional spells per day, spells known (if you are a spontaneous spellcaster), and an increased effective level of spellcasting. If you have more than one spellcasting class, you must decide to which class you add the new level for purposes of determining spells per day.
Special: You may take this Daring Act more than once; its effects stack.

Knock Down
You can hit flying foes from the sky.
Prerequisites: none
Benefit: If you deal damage to a flying foe with a ranged attack or thrown weapon, they must make a Fly check equal to twice the damage they took from the attack or begin falling.
Special: This only applies to flying foes that are at most one size category bigger than you.

Not My First Rodeo
Youíve done this before.
Prerequisites: Fighter level 3
Benefit: Add one-half your fighter level to your initiative. You may always act in a surprise round. However, if you would not normally act in a surprise round, you go last in the surprise round. (You go in the normal order for all other rounds.)

Running Dodge
You run so fast it is hard to hit you.
Prerequisites: None
Benefit: When you move more than your speed in a single round (whether by taking a double move action, the run, charge, or withdraw actions, etc), you receive a +4 Dodge bonus to your AC until the beginning of your next turn.
Special: This does not prevent you from provoking attacks of opportunity if you would otherwise do so, but the +4 Dodge bonus does apply on any attacks of opportunity you may provoke.

Skilled
Youíve picked up more tricks than most.
Prerequisites: none
Benefit: You gain extra skill points equal to four or your intelligence modifier, whichever is higher.
Special: This Daring Act may be taken more than once. Its effects stack.

Speedy
You are quite fast.
Prerequisites: none
Benefit: You gain a +10 foot untyped bonus to your land speed (and a +5 foot bonus to any other natural modes of movement you might possess). This does not apply to modes of movement gained from spells or spell-like abilities, but it does stack with other bonuses to land speed.
Special: You may take this Daring Act more than once. Its effects stack.

Swiss Army Weapon
You can do more than kill things with your weapons.
Prerequisites: none
Benefit: You may use a weapon as an appropriate tool when attempting a skill check which requires a tool or set of tools. You do not take the normal penalty for using improvised tools. If the weapon is masterwork, it counts as a masterwork tool or set of tools. Magical weapons generally do not provide a bonus on skill checks, although your GM may make exceptions.
Special: You still must provide any raw materials when attempting to create items using the Craft or Alchemy skills.

Tough as Nails
Your mind and reflexes are as tough, like your body.
Prerequisites: none
Benefit: You may add your Constitution modifier to your Will and Reflex saving throws.
Special: none

Warrior of Renown
You are a well-known fighter.
Prerequisites: none
Benefit: You may add your fighter level as a competence bonus to all Diplomacy and Intimidate skill checks.
Special: This bonus comes more from your own sense of self than otherís perception of you; therefore, this bonus applies regardless of whether the other party has heard of you or not.

Way of the Gun
You are an expert with firearms.
Prerequisites: Fighter level 5th, you must be proficient with firearms.
Benefit: When you select this Daring Act, you may select a gunslinger deed that a gunslinger equal to your fighter level Ė 4 could qualify for. You may now use that gunslinger deed. If the gunslinger deed is limited in use, you are subject to the same restrictions. You also gain a pool of grit equal to that which a gunslinger equal to your fighter level - 4 would possess.
Special: If you have gunslinger levels, this Daring Act lets your fighter levels add to your gunslinger levels for the purposes of determining what gunslinger talents you may qualify for, as well as the size of your grit pool. Your effective gunslinger level is equal to your gunslinger level plus your fighter level minus four.

Weapon Training
Because why not?
Prerequisites: Fighter level 5th
Benefit: Works exactly like the original class feature gained at level 5; advances like the original class feature at the appropriate levels.



Title
Description
Prerequisites: prerequisites
Benefit: benefit
Special: special

Sky
2016-05-19, 04:03 PM
Heroic Acts


Achillesí Wrath
You gain immunity to most attacks for an increased weakness to critical hits.
Prerequisites: Fighter level 17th
Benefit: You gain DR/- equal to twice your fighter level. However, all critical hits against you receive a +??? circumstance bonus on confirmation rolls, and deal damage as if the critical modifier were one multiplier higher. (for example, a shortsword would deal x3 damage on a critical hit) In addition, your DR from this Heroic act does not apply against critical hits.
Special: If you should ever become immune to critical hits, you lose all DR granted by this Heroic Act. If you gain a percentage chance of ignoring critical hits, (such as Fortification armor) this Heroic Act has an equal percentage chance of not functioning. (For example, a 20th-level fighter wearing +1 Heavy Fortification full plate with this Heroic Act would only have a 25% chance to benefit from their DR 40/-.)

Acts of Valor
You trade power for versatility.
Prerequisites: none
Benefit: Each day, you may train for one hour to learn two Daring Acts. You can use these Daring Acts until you retrain them, which you may do once a day in a process that takes one hour, or half an hour if only retraining one Daring Act.
Special: You must qualify for any Daring Acts you learn through this Heroic Act. You may use a Daring Act you learn through this Heroic Act to qualify for another Daring Act or Heroic Act, but if you retrain the Daring Act you are using as a prerequisite, you lose all benefits of anything with that Daring Act as a prerequisite.

Fast as Lightning
You are almost supernaturally fast.
Prerequisites: Speedy
Benefit: You complete actions almost automatically. You may make a full-round action as a standard action, a standard action as a move action, a move action as a swift action, and a swift action as a move action.
Special: You may not use Fast as Lightning to cast spells; spell casting time cannot be reduced in this way.

Guile of Odysseus
You are wily and shrewd.
Prerequisites: Dirty Fighter
Benefit: You may add your fighter level as a competence bonus to all Disguise and Bluff checks. You may make a feint in combat as a swift action.

See the Unseen
Your perception is uncanny.
Prerequisites: Eagle Eyes
Benefit: You can gain the benefits of a True Seeing spell for a number of minutes per day equal to your fighter level. These minutes need not be spent all at once, but must be spent in one-minute increments. In addition, you gain auditory blindsense with a range of 60 feet. (i.e. magically silenced creatures can evade the blindsense.)

Tough as Adamantine
Your mind and reflexes are as resilient as your body.
Prerequisites: Tough as nails
Benefit: Instead of making a Reflex or a Will save, you may make a Fortitude save instead and use that as the result of your Reflex or Will save.



Title
Description
Prerequisites: prerequisites
Benefit: benefit
Special: special

Sky
2016-05-19, 04:04 PM
Changelog:


5/19/2016 - Original post.
5/25/2016 - Clarified that Daring and Heroic Acts are based on fighter level; added compatibility section.
6/3/2016 - Added two Daring Acts (Thanks, Southern Cross!) and compressed Daring and Heroic Acts into spoiler tags


Compatibility:

Archetypes and other things which replace class features gained by the standard fighter instead replace the Daring Act or Heroic Act the fighter would have gained at that level. For example, the Archer archetype replaces Weapon Training 1 with Expert Archer. With these changes, the Archer archetype would replace the fifth-level Daring Act instead.
EXCEPTION: You don't give up anything for something that replaces bravery. Since the Bravery advances on even levels, and isn't worth sacrificing a Daring Act for, I'm comfortable with giving this away for free.

Feel free to comment now. Let me know what more you'd like to see added, as well as if I've misjudged any power levels. Aiming tier 2 or 3ish, but I'm more focused on flavor than a strict power level here. I think these changes make it easier for fighters to deal with traditionally problematic issues, like flight or invisibility, without stepping on any other classes' toes.

Let me know what you think!

Southern Cross
2016-05-25, 06:02 AM
I take it that when determining how many Daring & Heroic Acts a fighter may have, you use fighter level, not character level?

Sky
2016-05-25, 03:03 PM
I take it that when determining how many Daring & Heroic Acts a fighter may have, you use fighter level, not character level?

Yep. I'll make that clear.

I added in the compatibility section, too, since I apparently forgot that last time.

pi4t
2016-05-25, 07:16 PM
I think Gish is going to have effects I imagine were unintended if it's allowed at first level; namely allowing any caster to dip one level in fighter, and get a bonus combat feat, proficiencies, etc for very little cost. 1 level of fighter is already the traditional entry for Eldritch Knight (although admittedly I'm sure there are better options available).

Sky
2016-05-25, 08:21 PM
I think Gish is going to have effects I imagine were unintended if it's allowed at first level; namely allowing any caster to dip one level in fighter, and get a bonus combat feat, proficiencies, etc for very little cost. 1 level of fighter is already the traditional entry for Eldritch Knight (although admittedly I'm sure there are better options available).

Hmmm... I mostly was thinking of more full-gish builds when I was writing this one (Fighter 9/Wizard 11, for example, can still get 9th-level spells). My guess is that most arcane casters aren't going to want to dip a level in fighter even with this improvement, given the arcane-magic-not-mixing-with-armor thing. Same for druids because of the whole no-metal-armor deal. (Plus, giving up at-will wildshape is a big cost.)

Clerics, on the other hand, are going to jump all over this. Clerics don't get much (if anything) at level 20 anyway, so Cleric 19/Fighter 1 lets you use any martial weapon you want, heavy armor, and a bonus feat, all without giving up full, 20th-level cleric casting. The "divine gish" is something I had not considered. Going to have to think about whether I want to switch it to only arcane casting.

Southern Cross
2016-05-26, 04:36 AM
I'd recommend limiting Gish to arcane casters, otherwise paladins become redundant.

Sky
2016-05-26, 10:41 AM
I'd recommend limiting Gish to arcane casters, otherwise paladins become redundant.

Honestly, even with core fighter, a one-level dip is still pretty good for battle-focused clerics. You still get heavy armor which doesn't impede your casting, expanded access to weapons, and a bonus combat feat. That alone, I think, makes it hard for paladins to maintain their status as premier holy warriors.

That being said, paladins do have some things that a fighter/cleric can't do. Smiting, non-spell healing, some nice team-support auras, and mercies are all things that set a paladin apart.

I think I will keep gish as it is. Anyone who would like to limit it to arcane magic in their own games is certainly free to do so, but I don't think fighter/clerics with gish will overshadow paladins much more than they already do.

Amechra
2016-05-26, 01:10 PM
I mean, if you really don't want to super-encourage a Fighter dip (because there are ways around ASF anyway)...

Just make Gish require 3rd level. If you throw in "ignore ASF in light armor" or whatever as another Daring Act, it'd probably work out.

Southern Cross
2016-06-01, 08:51 PM
Here are a few more Daring Acts:

Running Dodge
You run so fast it is hard to hit you.
Prerequisites: None
Benefit: While running, a character with this Daring Act has a +4 Dodge bonus against ranged attacks. However, unless the character also has the Mobility feat, characters engaging him (or her) in melee combat receive a free attack of opportunity.
Special:

Way of the Gun
You are an expert with firearms.
Prerequisites: 5th level, character must be proficient with firearms.
Benefit: A character with this Daring Act is treated as a gunslinger four levels less than his fighter level. If the character later gains gunslinger levels, the characters effective gunslinger level is equal to the character's fighter levels plus gunslinger levels minus 4.

Rhedyn
2016-06-03, 07:12 AM
I have one critique. This was neither easy nor quick.

dude123nice
2016-06-03, 03:26 PM
Correct me if i'm wrong, but hasn't Weapon Master's Handbook made Weapon Training and Bravery pretty good through Advanced Weapon Training? And I think it also contains a loot of good feats that are mostly designed for the fighter, right? And, honestly, your ideas seem pretty boring to me. IDK if I would like these ideas, even if they did make the fighter a bit stronger.

Sky
2016-06-03, 05:03 PM
Here are a few more Daring Acts:

Running Dodge
You run so fast it is hard to hit you.
Prerequisites: None
Benefit: While running, a character with this Daring Act has a +4 Dodge bonus against ranged attacks. However, unless the character also has the Mobility feat, characters engaging him (or her) in melee combat receive a free attack of opportunity.
Special:

Way of the Gun
You are an expert with firearms.
Prerequisites: 5th level, character must be proficient with firearms.
Benefit: A character with this Daring Act is treated as a gunslinger four levels less than his fighter level. If the character later gains gunslinger levels, the characters effective gunslinger level is equal to the character's fighter levels plus gunslinger levels minus 4.

Thanks! I like the ideas here. If you don't mind, I'm going to reword them a bit to be more consistent with what I've already written.


Running Dodge
You run so fast it is hard to hit you.
Prerequisites: None
Benefit: When a character with this Daring Act moves more than their speed in a single round (whether by taking a double move action, the run, charge, or withdraw actions, etc), they receive a +4 Dodge bonus to their AC until the beginning of their next turn.
Special: This does not prevent the character from provoking attacks of opportunity if they would otherwise do so, but the +4 Dodge bonus does apply on any attacks of opportunity they may provoke.

Way of the Gun
You are an expert with firearms.
Prerequisites: Fighter level 5th, character must be proficient with firearms.
Benefit: When you select this Daring Act, you may select a gunslinger deed that a gunslinger equal to your fighter level Ė 4 could qualify for. You may now use that gunslinger deed. If the gunslinger deed is limited in use, you are subject to the same restrictions. You also gain a pool of grit equal to that which a gunslinger equal to your fighter level - 4 would possess.
Special: If you have gunslinger levels, this Daring Act lets your fighter levels add to your gunslinger levels for the purposes of determining what gunslinger talents you may qualify for, as well as the size of your grit pool. Your effective gunslinger level is equal to your gunslinger level plus your fighter level minus four.




I have one critique. This was neither easy nor quick.

Yeeeaaahh... This had gotten a bit larger than I anticipated. I think I'll wrap the Heroic Acts and Daring Acts in spoiler tags to make them less overwhelming. My main goal was to keep it modular and compatible with all the archetypes, though, which is something I think I have done successfully, albeit at the expense of simplicity.


Correct me if i'm wrong, but hasn't Weapon Master's Handbook made Weapon Training and Bravery pretty good through Advanced Weapon Training? And I think it also contains a loot of good feats that are mostly designed for the fighter, right? And, honestly, your ideas seem pretty boring to me. IDK if I would like these ideas, even if they did make the fighter a bit stronger.

I don't own Weapon Master's Handbook, so I don't know what it has/hasn't done with the fighter. If you can remember any specific things from that book that you'd like to see included, please feel free to let me know about them.

As for the ideas being boring, I'd love to get more exciting ideas. Most of the current crop is things that I could think of off of the top of my head at four in the morning. (Not the best time to write, truthfully.) I'd welcome any ideas you'd care to add to this little project.

Southern Cross
2016-06-05, 07:29 PM
Thank you for reworking my Daring Act suggestions!