A new way to handle level adjustment?

[Eladrinblade]

A long time ago, someone on here told me that it's somewhat commonly accepted that gestalt is worth about two LA. My biggest problem with LA is that you're stuck at first level for a long time, meaning you usually have a pittance of HP and it's just an all-around sucky arrangement.

So, looking at 2nd edition, I had an idea.

Instead of needing the exp of a few levels higher to level up, what if you got an exp penalty?

For instance, with LA +2 you'll be 18th level at 20th level, right? What if instead you just got a 10% experience penalty? So, when everybody else reaches 1000 exp and hits second level, you'll have 900 and be a bit behind, and it just gets worse from there. By 20th level, you're right where you would be anyway, but you don't have to lag quite as far behind the whole time.

I think this would make races like drow playable without being too powerful, although they would be right at the beginning.

LA +1 = 5%
LA +2 = 10%
LA +3 = 15%
and so on

Thoughts?

[OldTrees1]

Thoughts?

Remember that LA was used for 2 purposes:
1) As a cost to offset a benefit (your idea deals in this area)
2) As a gate to delay a higher level ability until near the appropriate level


Also how are you normally stuck at 1st level for a long time? You remain at Nth level for roughly the same 13.33 encounters everyone else does. (Someone with LA +2 only needs 3000xp to move from ECL 3 to ECL 4, not 6000xp)

[Gildedragon]

well there's a couple of things:

a) making xp% losses is horrible bookkeeping nonsense making it hard to give xp on the fly. (this is part of the reason why nobody uses multiclassing penalties)
b) there is already a simpler fix: LA buyoff. Yeah only LA+3 will be fully bought out pre-epic but it is simple and straightforward
c) LA already sorta functions like % penalty to XP; a lvl 1 character with 0 LA effectively is getting 100% more XP than one with LA +1 (needing only 1000 xp to get to level 2 rather than 2000).

[Eladrinblade]

If you have LA +2, that means you're effectively 3rd level at 1st level, right? So a drow fighter 1 should need 6000 to hit level 2 (which is really level 4), right?

[Flickerdart]

Level-adjusted races tend to be powerful at the beginning of the game, and weak by the end of the game. At level 1, a +1 here and there is often the best you can do, and unique racial abilities like flight are treasured. At level 20, everyone is so decked out in spells and gear that +1 doesn't matter and magic can provide any ability you might want.

This system makes this worse - taking a level-adjusted race at level 1 is now good because you start out at the same level as everyone else. At level 20, you are thousands of experience points behind, but your racial bonuses have long since become irrelevant.

[OldTrees1]

If you have LA +2, that means you're effectively 3rd level at 1st level, right? So a drow fighter 1 should need 6000 to hit level 2 (which is really level 4), right?

You are effectively 3rd level and thus already effectively have 3000xp if you are thinking that way. In reality you have 0xp and only need 3000xp to level from level 3 to level 4 (you are effectively ignoring those 1st 2 levels).

[Divide by Zero]

If you have LA +2, that means you're effectively 3rd level at 1st level, right? So a drow fighter 1 should need 6000 to hit level 2 (which is really level 4), right?

A drow fighter 1 can't be played at level 1 by RAW, any more than a human fighter 3 could be played at level 1. But if your game starts at level 3, then you can play it, and it will hit class level 2 at the same time the other characters hit level 4 (assuming equal XP gains).

[Komatik]

The best way to handle LA is selective blindness on the part of everyone involved. The other solution involves fire.

[RedMage125]

Level-adjusted races tend to be powerful at the beginning of the game, and weak by the end of the game. At level 1, a +1 here and there is often the best you can do, and unique racial abilities like flight are treasured. At level 20, everyone is so decked out in spells and gear that +1 doesn't matter and magic can provide any ability you might want.

This system makes this worse - taking a level-adjusted race at level 1 is now good because you start out at the same level as everyone else. At level 20, you are thousands of experience points behind, but your racial bonuses have long since become irrelevant.

So much this.

I liked Pathfinder's answer (although instead of level adjustment, you basically have the number of "race points" spent to make a given race). Races slightly more powerful than the core ones (usually comparable to LA +1 races) were treated as one level higher from levels 1-5, after that, they are equal. Races in the next tier up might be treated as 2 levels higher from 1-5, 1 level higher from 6-10, and normally after that. It goes on, but it basically amounts to "LA" being reduced every 5 levels for any given race.

It's what I would suggest, because it answers the problem so eloquently pointed out by Flickerdart. It makes the LA a cost when there is a benefit, and removes said cost when the benefit is no longer significant.

So a drow Rog 1 would be treated as 3rd level, at Rog 7 he would be treated as 8th, and by 11, he would be treated as 11.

This also means that LA of 4 or higher would still have some kind of LA at 20, but those races usually have SIGNIFICANT abilities anyway (Half-Fiends, for example, get new SLAs as they gain Hit Dice).

[Sword-Geass]

A long time ago, someone on here told me that it's somewhat commonly accepted that gestalt is worth about two LA. My biggest problem with LA is that you're stuck at first level for a long time, meaning you usually have a pittance of HP and it's just an all-around sucky arrangement.



Beside what everyone said, Gestalt is worth a +2 bump in CR not LA.

And yes, LA buyoff is the way to go.

[Hurnn]

I have been doing a 10% per LA exp "penalty". They track their actual and effective exp which gives their actual level and effective level for awarding exp respectively. It works out that you end up about 1 level behind per LA by level 20.

[Inevitability]

What you are suggesting is more-or-less the opposite of LA buyoff. Here you can play a character with LA at low levels in exchange for paying XP later on, LA buyoff allows you to ignore most of the negative sides of LA at high levels, but first you have to pay some XP.

Personally, I prefer LA buyoff.