PDA

View Full Version : Revised Crafting



Umarth
2007-06-26, 04:08 PM
Posted an earlier version of this before but I've made quite a few changes and clean ups since the previous version. Goal as always is to make Craft skills something worth taking.

This is designed for a low magic campaign but the core rules can be used for any d20 system.

Crafting: “The life so short, the craft so long to learn.”

The ability to craft equipment, items, breed animals, or build buildings is a critical skill for characters in the Narrowlands. To craft an item the character must make a Craft (Skill) check using the appropriate craft skill and purchasing the required value of raw materials.

Craft Skills:
The following is a list some of the most common craft skills and what types of items they produce. There are certainly additional skills such as mining and forestry to harvest raw materials that are not listed.


Alchemy: This skill is used to make everything from potions and cement to makeup and glazes. Any time your mixing together multiple powders and reagents your probably doing alchemy.
Architecture: This skill is used to design buildings and supervise there construction. It can also be used for any other large man made structures such as aqueducts or roads.
Armor Smithing: This skill is used to craft metal armors and all types of shields.
Blacksmithing: While this skill covers all Black Smithing items besides Armor, Jewelry, and Weapons it is also used to create alloys, coins, and other miscellaneous metal objects.
Bow Making: Crafting bows, arrows, and crossbows is covered by this skill.
Cooking: This skill is used to cook meals, prepare food for long journeys, and create alcohols.
Jewelry: This covers all aspects of creating jewelry from cutting the stones to smithing the ring or necklace.
Leather Working: is used for crafting non metallic armors, skinning animals, curing skins, and crafting any other leather items.
Tailoring: This skill is used to craft items from cloth such as clothing and furniture upholstery.
Weapon Smithing: Swords, maces, javelins, and all other metal martial or thrown weapons are created using this skill.
Woodworking: Chairs, doors, staffs, staves, chests, barrels, and other wooden items are all created using the Woodworking skill.

Synergy Bonuses:

5 or more ranks in Blacksmithing provides a +2 bonus to Armor Smithing and Weapon Smithing.



Determining the Base DC:

The base DC to craft an item is determined by the items type and quality.

Types: Item types represent the basic complexity of the item to craft.

Simple: These items are easy to make, require very few materials and involve little or no interplay between the materials. Examples of simple items are simple weapons, shields, horse shoes, sleds, filtered water, or simple buildings with no foundation.
Normal: Normal items represent items that require a limited number of materials and some interplay between the materials or various components of the item. Examples of Normal items are martial weapons, light & medium armors, iron gates, wagons, mundane alchemical items, and common buildings with foundations.
Difficult: Difficult items typically have a multiple materials involved in the construction, multiple steps to the items creation, or a great deal of interplay between the materials or constituent parts of the items. Examples of difficult items are exotic weapons, heavy armors, simple geared devices, basic “magical” alchemical items, and multistory buildings.
Complex: Complex items are the most difficult items to craft and functional let alone masterwork complex items are the sign of a true master’s work. Examples of complex items are mechanical singing birds, the most potent of alchemical items, and huge stone buildings that sore into the air.
{table]Type|Quality|DC
Simple|Shoddy|8
Normal|Shoddy|10
Difficult|Shoddy|13
Complex|Shoddy|17
Simple|Shoddy|13
Normal|Shoddy|15
Difficult|Shoddy|18
Complex|Shoddy|22
Simple|Shoddy|23
Normal|Shoddy|25
Difficult|Shoddy|28
Complex|Shoddy|32
Any|Faux|+5 DC
[/table]


{table]Quality|Weapons|Armor|Shields|Items
Shoddy|-1 atk, -1dmg|-1 AC, -1 Max Dex, +1 Armor Check penalty|-1 AC, -1 Max Dex, +1 Armor Check penalty|-2 Skill Checks|
Normal|-|-|-|-
Masterwork|+1 Atk|-1 Armor Check penalty, +1 DR|-1 Armor Check penalty|+2 Skill Checks
Faux|Breaks on an attack roll of a 1.*|2/3 normal AC and no DR.|-1 AC|-1 Skill Checks, May Break**
[/table]

Quality:Items can be crafted in three different qualities. The quality of an item has a direct affect on its function.
Shoddy: Shoddy items are substandard and poorly made. This is obvious to almost anyone who’s had experience with that type of item before.
Normal: Normal items are well crafted and solid. They function as designed and while they don’t help make a task appreciably easier they don’t hinder either.
Masterwork: Masterwork items are so well crafted that they make any task they are used for noticeably easier.
Faux: Anywhere there is money to be made you’ll find people who are willing to cheat the system to get more for less. This is as true in the Narrowlands as it is anywhere else. It is not uncommon to find faux (fake) items for sale. As always the best advice is if the deal is too good to be true it probably is. Faux items always appear to really be of another quality unless closely inspected (appraise check).

Identification: Faux items can be identified by an appraise check (DC equal to craft DC). If you have ranks in the skill needed to craft the item you may add the to your appraise check.
Hardness: All Faux weapons, armor, and items have ½ the normal hardness and hit points the item they are reproducing normally has.
Creation Cost: All Faux weapons, armor, and items cost 20% the amount of the item they are duplicating would to create.
Special Properties: Any special properties a Faux item appears to have from special crafting or materials fails when used.
*Faux weapons: The weapon may make a DC 15 save to avoid breaking.
**Faux Items are commonly sold as paste jewelry in many markets. Faux tools impose a -1 skill check to any skill roles made using them. In addition they break on any natural 1 skill role.




Item Creation Cost:

Base Cost: When crafting an item you must spend 50% minus the Base DC on raw materials.
Special Materials: If the item is going to be crafted from a special material, such as Mithril, the cost for that material must be paid in addition to the base cost of crafting the item.
Faux Items: When crafting a faux item determine the price for the item you are trying to create a fake version of and then spend 20% of that price on raw materials.

Example: Turon wants to craft a Greatsword (Weapon Smithing DC 15) which normally sells for 50gp. Heading to the local metallurgist Turon purchases 17.5 gold pieces worth of raw materials and then heads back to his workshop. (50%-15%=35%, 50gp x 35% = 17.5)

Example: Turn wants to craft a Masterwork Greatsword (Weapon Smithing DC 25) which sells for 350gp on the open market. Heading back to his favorite metallurgist Turon purchases 87.5 gold pieces worth of the finest steel he can find. (50%-25%=25%, 350gp x 25%=87.5)

Example: While Turon is testing out his new Masterwork Greatsword a noble walks by and notices the fine craftsman ship on the blade. The noble is in need of a gift for his Shah and commissions a Valuable (see Weapon Modifiers) Masterwork Scimitar for 3500 gold pieces (Weapon Smithing DC 21, 15+6 for Valuable). Turon again heads to his metallurgist to buy the finest steel as well as some gold leaf. On the way back to his shop he also stops by the jeweler and purchases numerous small gemstones to set in the blade. All his purchasing done Turons purse is 1015gp lighter. (50%-21%=29%, 3500gp x 29%=1015gp) If Turon had decided to cheat the noble and make a faux version of the requested item he would have needed to spend only 203gp (1015 x 20%

If Turon had wished to make the weapon from Mithril in addition to the 1015gp for raw materials he would have had to purchase 12,000gp worth of Mithril for the weapon.


Item Creation Time:

Items take 1 day per 3 points of the DC and 1 day per 500 gp of the items final cost. This time is reduced by 1 day for every 5 points you roll above the DC. If you roll well enough to reduce the time below one day it is reduced to half a day and then ¼ a day. ¼ a day is the minimum amount of time it takes to make any item. As a special note some items, such as arrows, are made in batches. For these items the minimum time is for a batch rather than one item.

Base Item Creation Time = (Item DC/3) + (Final Cost/500)

Example: It normally takes 5 days to craft a Sword (DC 15). Turon though does very will on his Craft (Weapon Smithing) roll and manages to get a 27 (20 roll +7skill). Since this is 12 points above the needed DC to make a normal martial melee weapon he makes it in 3 days rather than 5 days (-2 days for a check at least 10 points above the base DC).


Failing an Item Creation Roll:

When crafting an item you must state what quality item you are trying to make. If you fail your roll but it's still high enough to make a lower quality item you make that item instead. If you roll high enough to make a higher quality item then you originally started out making you DO NOT make the higher quality. (High rolls will reduce the time needed to make the item though). If you fail an item creation roll when making a faux item all the materials are destroyed and need to be replaced.


I've also got a slew of Low magic weapon modifiers and materials I can post if anyone is intrested.

Matthew
2007-06-28, 08:52 PM
Looks interesting. I still think Weapon Smithing and Bow Making have a lot of overlap, though. Historically, as I understand it, making weapons was a composite business. Either one guy had a lot of Skills or he had the help of other craftsmen. What I mean is that forging an Arrow head is a totally different Skill from making a Bow, as is creating the shaft of a Spear from forging the Spear Head.

From what I hear, there was likely an element of foresting involved, where Trees were manipulated to grow in the best shapes suitable for making items.

All the same, this seems better to me on the whole than the current system.

Umarth
2007-06-28, 10:39 PM
Your compleatly right that in real life it was a team effort. My understanding is that even with something as simple as a sword you could have:
A smith to make the blade
A grinder to put an edge on the blade
A hilt maker for the hilt
An etcher for... etching
A jeweler for adding gems
ect.

As with everything though the rules should support fun over realism.



Here's another feat I've come up with as well to work with the new crafting rules.

Quick Crafting [General]
You are focused and economical when it comes to crafting items.
Prerequisites: +2 to a craft skill from the Skill Focus feat.
Benefit: Items take 1 day per 6 points of DC rather than 3. In addition rather than an additional day being required for every 500gp of the base value an extra day is required for every 1000gp.

Callix
2007-06-28, 10:43 PM
err... on Quick Crafting, is that Skill Focus (any Craft) as a prerequisite, or something else? And might a ranks requirement make sense?

Matthew
2007-06-28, 10:49 PM
Sure, I agree. I am just thinking about balanced Craft Skills. Under the regular rules, as I am sure you know, Craft (Weapon Smithing) lets you make anything except Bows and Craft (Bowyer) lets you only make Bows. As I understand it, you have moved Cross Bows into Craft (Bowyer) and Wooden weapons (such as Club and Staff?) into Craft (Wood Working).

The question for me is whether this is too much, too little or enough in terms of game balance. I might have been inclined to make Craft (Weapon Smithing) cover all types of weapons, just as Craft (Armour Smithing) covers all types of Armour (but where does Shield fall?).

Umarth
2007-06-29, 08:37 AM
err... on Quick Crafting, is that Skill Focus (any Craft) as a prerequisite, or something else? And might a ranks requirement make sense?

It should be Skill Focus (any craft). I decided to go for the feat requirement because that seems like more dedication to me than say 5 ranks in a craft skill. Honestly it could go either way though. Do you think it should use craft ranks instead?

I also use a modified Skill Focus feat in my homebrew:
Skill Focus [General]
Choose a skill such as Move Silently. You have a special knack with that skill.
Benefit: You may select one of the following:

Gain a +3 bonus on all skill checks with a single skill
Select 2 related skills and gain a +2 bonus to each of them.
Select 1 skill and gain a +2 bonus to that skill and a +2 initiative bonus.
Select one save and one skill. You gain +1 to the save and +2 to the skill.

Normal: This feat has changed from the PHB which only allows for a +3 skill bonus.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack.



The question for me is whether this is too much, too little or enough in terms of game balance. I might have been inclined to make Craft (Weapon Smithing) cover all types of weapons, just as Craft (Armour Smithing) covers all types of Armour (but where does Shield fall?).

Good points. I could see going with any of the following setups.

I'd be curious what most folks think is balanced.

Option 1
Craft Blacksmithing = All metal weapons, armor, shields, and other blacksmithied items.
Craft Woodworking = All wooden weapons, armor, shields, and other wooden items.
Craft Tailoring = All leather/cloth weapons, armor, shields, and other cloth/leather items.

Option 2
Craft blacksmithing = All non weapon/armor metal items.
Craft Weaponsmithing = All weapons
Craft Armorsmithing = All armor and shields

Option 3
Craft blacksmithing = All non weapon/armor metal items.
Craft Weaponsmithing = All metal weapons
Craft Armorsmithing = All armors and metal shields
Craft Woodworking = All wooden weapons, shields, armors, and other wooden items.

Option 4 (similar to the current setup I have)
Craft blacksmithing = All non weapon/armor metal items.
Craft Weaponsmithing = All metal weapons
Craft Weaponsmithing = All metal weapons
Craft Armorsmithing = All metal armors and metal shields
Craft Woodworking = All wooden weapons, shields, armors, and other wooden items.
Craft Tailoring = Cloth/Leather armors & shields, all other cloth items.

Thinking about it now I'd almost say option 1 is the best way to go. It keeps some diffrences with out having so many that it sinks low skill point classes.

Matthew
2007-07-01, 09:48 PM
I think I like Option 4, to tell the truth. I think if I were redesigning the system a bit more, I would go with a tiered system:

Craft (Metal Working/Smithing), (Wood Working/Carpenting), (Leather Working/Tanning), (Fabric Working/Tailoring),

supporting the Craft (Armour Making) and (Weapon Making) Skills.

So, making a Spear would be (Wood Working) + (Metal Working) + (Weapon Making)

Maybe too complicated, though. I am thinking of a work shop environment, though, where multiple individuals support the process. Just a thought.

Fax Celestis
2007-07-01, 10:16 PM
Craft DC 50 items are free?

Umarth
2007-07-02, 06:13 PM
Maybe too complicated, though. I am thinking of a work shop environment, though, where multiple individuals support the process. Just a thought.

While I think that would result in a much more realistic system I don't think it would add to the fun/ease of the game and that has to win out in the end.

I think you'd also wind up making crafting impossible for non rogue/bard/expert classes due to the number of skill points required.



Craft DC 50 items are free?

Very very good point. Perhaps stop it at 25% of the items final cost?

Fax Celestis
2007-07-02, 06:17 PM
Either that, or make it a coinage reduction instead of a percentage one. (say, 50% of the cost minus 2xDC in gp)

Umarth
2007-07-02, 07:36 PM
I like the coinage reduction idea but I think I might tie it in with the items final value. Don't want a sword and a castle having the same few coins off.

Perhaps 2xDC in coins per 1000gp of final item value.

Matthew
2007-07-06, 08:25 PM
While I think that would result in a much more realistic system I don't think it would add to the fun/ease of the game and that has to win out in the end.

I think you'd also wind up making crafting impossible for non rogue/bard/expert classes due to the number of skill points required.

Fair enough. I have to admit, I wouldn't ordinarily expect non Expert type Classes to be able to make the more complicated Weapons and Armour anyway. However, I see your point.