Can someone riding a mount make a pounce attack?

[gadren]

If a character is riding a mount, and the rider has the pounce ability, do they get to use that ability when performing a mounted charge? The rules seem a bit murky on whether you are charging when your mount is charging, or just gain the same bonuses and penalties but aren't actually charging.

Relevant rules text:
If your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge. When charging on horseback, you deal double damage with a lance (see Charge).

The above makes is seem like the rider isn't the one taking the charge action, but then the text for spirited charge says "When mounted and using the charge action, ..."

Thoughts?

[Necroticplague]

If a character is riding a mount, and the rider has the pounce ability, do they get to use that ability when performing a mounted charge? The rules seem a bit murky on whether you are charging when your mount is charging, or just gain the same bonuses and penalties but aren't actually charging.

Relevant rules text:
If your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge. When charging on horseback, you deal double damage with a lance (see Charge).

The above makes is seem like the rider isn't the one taking the charge action, but then the text for spirited charge says "When mounted and using the charge action, ..."

Thoughts?

You don't charge. Your mount charges. and you just attack. So the typical "charge and someone, run them through with a lance" is a full-round action from the mount to charge, and a standard action for the rider to attack.

Spirited Charge, and quite a few other mount-related benefits, were made by people who didn't appear to have actually read the mounted combat rules.

[Troacctid]

Not only does it not count as you doing the charge, you're also not allowed to make multiple melee attacks in a round where your mount moves more than 5 feet.

If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a single melee attack. Essentially, you have to wait until the mount gets to your enemy before attacking, so you can’t make a full attack.

[gadren]

You don't charge. Your mount charges. and you just attack. So the typical "charge and someone, run them through with a lance" is a full-round action from the mount to charge, and a standard action for the rider to attack.

Spirited Charge, and quite a few other mount-related benefits, were made by people who didn't appear to have actually read the mounted combat rules.

So are you saying that the Spirited Charge feat just doesn't work?

[Darrin]

When your mount charges, you still have a full complement of actions. So you could direct your mount to charge, make a fast dismount off the back of your mount (Ride check DC 20) as a free action, and then charge your opponent from there, with a full attack at the end of your charge.

[Necroticplague]

So are you saying that the Spirited Charge feat just doesn't work?

It technically could work, but would require incredibly specific scenarios. Under standard conditions, like the one the feat was meant for, it doesn't work. The mount charges, you merely attack.

Theoretically, with a really big mount, you could charge across the back of the mount, remaining mounted while charging. Like if you were on an elephant, and you ran from tail to head while on some kind of large howdah. 99% sure this isn't what that feat was intended for, though.

[Zombimode]

Theoretically, with a really big mount, you could charge across the back of the mount, remaining mounted while charging. Like if you were on an elephant, and you ran from tail to head while on some kind of large howdah. 99% sure this isn't what that feat was intended for, though.

This won't work since you just share your mount's space when mounted.

[Mr Adventurer]

Depends if a howdah specifically counts as being mounted or is more like a cart: a mobile platform. If so, you could make the Ride check to do a free dismount from your elephant - because you choose where to dismount to you choose the far end of the howdah. Then you charge forward along the howdah and make your Pounce attack, ending your turn on the front of the elephant and ready to free action mount it at the start of the next turn.