Best Setup for a Heavy Armor Swashbuckler

[Naanomi]

The idea of a heavy armor fighter/rogue 'thug' has been appealing me since the game's release, but I haven't had the chance yet. A 'new party' in AL (where I don't have any low level characters ready) opens up the shot. While it is a big mess with the base flavor of the swashbuckler, but I think will make a good 'intimidating/mess with your head' black knight type.

There seem to be a couple ways to go with this... My first second run of this build is as follows:
Variant Human/Pirate
Fighter 1/Rogue 1/Fighter +4/Rogue +14

16/14/14/8/10/12

Skills: Perception, Stealth, Athletics, Intimidation, Deception, Level 2: Persuasion

Fighting Style: Level 1: Duelist; Level 4: Battlemaster: Repost, Precision Strike

Expertise: Level 2: Athletics, Persuasion; Level 11: Perception, Intimidation

ASI: Level 1: Shield Mastery; Level 5: +2 STR; Level 9: +2 STR; Level 13: Sentinel; Level 15: Alert; Level 17: Lucky

Equipment: Plate, Shield, variety of weapons (Rapier, Whip; Darts, Net)
Important things to me:
~Not a spellcaster (though if I happen to grab some very basic spells with ranger levels or something it is OK, just not going as a gish)
~Main strategy: knock over with shield mastery, sneak attack, repeat
~Secondary Goal: General battle-field control through Shove + Taunt; limited party face/skill monkey

Thoughts:
**Final great Rogue ability (besides Sneak Attack) is at 11; anything better to do with the last four levels than collect Rogue levels for 2d6 Sneak Attack?
**Champion (for crits/more initiative) instead of Maneuvers?
**Is the order the levels are taken the best way to play up from level 1?
**Is there a better use of feats; Athlete, Mobile, Martial Adept, Mage Slayer... many options look appealing

[bid]

I don't think you can do much better. Your Wis9 weakness won't be gone before level 20, you might want to fighter 6 for resilient (Wis) earlier.

Since your free shove is up from level 1, you don't need to hurry for extra attack. Getting SA at level 3 would open more options.

You may also prefer Wis12 Cha12, but it's not clear which is better.

Now that I think about it, 16 14 14 8 10 12 is tighter. With the same init+3, improved Dex/Wis but lower Cha.

[Naanomi]

Now that I think about it, 16 14 14 8 10 12 is tighter. With the same init+3, improved Dex/Wis but lower Cha.
It does slightly lower the other Swashbuckler Charisma-based abilities... but not by much; and I *do* hate an odd ability score. Good call.

Editing post #1 with current iteration

[djreynolds]

A rogue is going to get at 15th level proficiency to wisdom saves, but that is a long time to wait.

I know the extra attack is important, but it is for landing the sneak attack.

I recommend grabbing battlemaster 4, and taking precision and not worrying about the extra attack. 4 times a short rest you have precision to help land attacks.

I had a similar build, before there were swashbucklers, I had a champion/thief full plate mountain dwarf. The luxury was I could dump charisma.

I think you could try a dex based leather armor, shield and rapier version. Take defensive style and just leave strength at 14, coupled with expertise... shield master will be just as effective.

Also the see if you can use that scout UA fighter archetype, there parry maneuver is different you add your superiority die to you AC and then take half damage like uncanny dodge. And you get precision and skills maneuvers.

And because you are dex based, and being swashbuckler you can still snipe with a bow.

Also sentinel is nice, because I believe that reaction attack you can still sneak attack with because it is on the enemy's turn

But I like the build, go for it

[X3r4ph]

You could also consider the monster from the UA Gothic Heroes. It has precision and boost to mental saves as "maneuvers".

[djreynolds]

I have been toying around with a new character, it is a back up for CoS if my hill dwarf cleric dies. I was going to roll up a sister to him, she would come in as 5th level swashbuckler/1 paladin, sort of his avenger. And totally un-optimized.

She would where heavy armor as a dwarf can, but with only a 13 strength because of the paladin. She would have a high dex because of her rogue background and a decent charisma. She was focused on social skills and investigation, no stealth. And I'm tempted to have her wield his war hammer as well, because why not? No sneak attack, but flavorful. And her first feat might just be heavily armored, so she can wear her brothers chainmail... totally un-optimized.

Perhaps I could rework her story, that she started off a paladin in her brother's church, then turn to being a rogue and then retook up her paladin to avenge him. Thus not having to snag heavily armored. And perhaps we could say the war hammer was smashed and she uses the handle of the weapon as a melee dagger..........

Anyhow, a paladin/swashbuckler could be a good solid build. And optimized, actually and a very cool concept. You already have the stats, almost. And bump charisma up for saving throw purposes and grab devotion and sacred weapon. Sneak attack and smite and shield bashing. Your charisma will be you main stat along with strength and you'll fight rapier and shield. Dex will stay at 13. Con will take a big hit, perhaps leaving it at 13 for resilient con somewhere down the line. But 6 paladin/14 swashbuckler could work for you, and you'll get wisdom save proficiency from paladin at 1st level.

[Specter]

In my campaign there's an Ancients Paladin 3/Swash 3, kinda like the charming warrior kinda guy. Not optimized, but really cool.

As for your build, taking 6 Fighter and grabbing Resilient (WIS) is much better than waiting for Rogue 15. STR15 might also be good for full plate.

[Naanomi]

As for your build, taking 6 Fighter and grabbing Resilient (WIS) is much better than waiting for Rogue 15. STR15 might also be good for full plate.
While I understand the Wis weakness I'm not too worried about it; it's an AL character so while it will come up occassionally it isn't often a daily concern. AL also means all the UA suggestions are nice but I can't implement them for this character.

As for strength, I'm starting at 16 and only go up from there... Plus with 14 Dex I can rock the medium armor well if I come across a set first (or really need to stealth mission in a breastplate)

[djreynolds]

IMO, humbly, there are two cases where medium armor master works. My strength based version of a beast master, or a fighter/rogue.

The issue is the swashbuckler rogue. He wants charisma, and this is going to make you MAD.

The benefit is being able to basically sneak attack single opponents one on one. And the initiative bonus.

The question is, how much charisma do you need for this build and how much dex. You will need at least a 13 in dex just to multiclass.

So for me, because you are selecting the swashbuckler, I would put strength at a 10-12 and leave it. Expertise in athletics will carry you while using shield master. And studded leather armor, shield, and maxed dexterity is a good AC. But by leaving strength at a 10-12 range you can bump up charisma and take advantage of initiative bonus.

Otherwise a melee fighter/thief or assassin or AT will serve you better in a strength based heavy armor rogue build as you can leave dex at 13 and forget charisma entirely.

How high of an initiative score do you want? If you are taking alert and have a 14 in dex, that's a+7 for any character.