Making a tense always on the run campaign work?

[Spacehamster]

So wanted to start building a campaign for when I am DM the next time and had an idea of the players at level 1 start at the ground zero of an undead scourge type outbreak/invasion that is lead by a archlich bent on god hood and cleansing all life from the planet. Now obviously lvl 1 pcs can't stand up to that so they have to run, strike at smaller forces and fight a guerrilla style war against the threat to gain power to be able to in the end be strong enough to foil the plans of the archlich.

Does this sound like it would be hard to do for a not so experienced DM?

[hymer]

As long as you make sure the players understand what's expected of them, and what they should expect from the campaign, I don't think this should be more difficult than so many other campaign types.

[Spacehamster]

As long as you make sure the players understand what's expected of them, and what they should expect from the campaign, I don't think this should be more difficult than so many other campaign types.

yeah probably have to tell them before that there will be situations that are not meant to be able to win against, cause they are a bit gung-ho putting it mildly. :P

[Hrugner]

Go with the sort of corny movie solution. Pad the party with throw away victims that you can kill to show things have gotten out of hand.

[Spacehamster]

Go with the sort of corny movie solution. Pad the party with throw away victims that you can kill to show things have gotten out of hand.

yeah were thinking the over the top approach of them seeing soldier´s and commoner´s getting ripped apart, the starting town getting burned down around them and seeing too much enemies to
take on in general to keep em on the move.

[Ninja_Prawn]

A thought: thematically, this would work best if the PCs are total nobodies. Completely below the notice of the archlich until they get to like level 10.

Metagame-wise, I don't know if that works. Players want to feel special. They want to be the ones solving the problems and changing the world.

So, even if they're running, they'll need agency to choose where they run to - which means they need positive goals they can achieve. If location A becomes too hot to stay in, for example, they should be aware of location B, a hiding place for survivors that is running low on food, and location C, which houses a magic item that must be destroyed before the lich finds out it's there.

[Spacehamster]

A thought: thematically, this would work best if the PCs are total nobodies. Completely below the notice of the archlich until they get to like level 10.

Metagame-wise, I don't know if that works. Players want to feel special. They want to be the ones solving the problems and changing the world.

So, even if they're running, they'll need agency to choose where they run to - which means they need positive goals they can achieve. If location A becomes too hot to stay in, for example, they should be aware of location B, a hiding place for survivors that is running low on food, and location C, which houses a magic item that must be destroyed before the lich finds out it's there.

yeah were thinking they would work as a deterrent for the lich, killing off important henchmen and foiling his plans while on the run, seeking allies among other countries that are threatened in the area and the like and when built enough support(and levels) they will turn it around and while the allies they have brought together fights the almost unstoppable undead forces the pc´s can slip through the front and take the battle to the Archlich and cut the head off the snake so to speak. :)

[Skylivedk]

yeah probably have to tell them before that there will be situations that are not meant to be able to win against, cause they are a bit gung-ho putting it mildly. :P

I'm running a campaign where this is also the case. They changed their ways pretty drastically during the first couple of sessions (and have fled a couple of times by now).

I find the key is good foreshadowing. Make them feel very, very afraid

[Pope Scarface]

You could start them at higher level, but use the slow rest rules (8 hours short rest, 7 days long rest).

That way it takes planning and effort to regain resources, and they will be resource starved which encourage "encounter avoidance strategies."

[Innocent_bystan]

You could take a look at the Out of the Abyss adventure to see how it handles the running-away-from-a-superior-force part.

I haven't played or run the adventure, but from what I've heard: [spoiler alert]

- The party first needs to escape from a Drow camp, together with a bunch of NPC's
- Builds up strength while doing so
- Lose a lot of NPC's
- Eventually reach civilisation and plea for help
- Return to the Drow and start kicking ass, while searching for something tangible to do.
- Find out there is a weakness to exploit
- Take out a high priority target that severely damages the Drow (think Luke destroys the Death Star in magnitude)

I'll repeat that I haven't played the adventure, but in the event that I'm completely off target: the above isn't an unreasonable structure for a campaign such as the one you are planning. Replacing Drow with undead and Underdark with warzone obviously.

[solidork]

This can definitely work. The best AP I have ever read was a werewolf game where the primary antagonists were cannibals who eat the hearts of their enemies to gain their knowledge and power. The pack was almost immediately run off their territory and the players spent the rest of the game living hand to mouth, constantly looking over their shoulders. Nowhere was safe for long. NoTHING was safe. It was brutal and amazing.

[Stan]

Try to keep the encounter rate reasonably high, at least part of the time. Interrupt a long rest once if they don't find good hiding spots.
Padding with NPCs is good too - a loss of resources if they die. They could pick up other refugees to add to their party.
Low level undead aren't going to have treasure but there should lots of low level treasure in the form of villages that have already been wiped out.

[Tanarii]

You'll probably want to use the Epic Heroism rest variant from the DMG.

[Stan]

You'll probably want to use the Epic Heroism rest variant from the DMG.

I think it would be better to make them sweat and worry about running out of spells/resources. What's the point of turning up the heat if you give them an easy out?

[smcmike]

You want some variation in terms of tension level and "always on the run."

The best fiction example I can think of is this sort of thing is Battle Star Galactica. In those terms, you want the opening to be a Big Bang, really setting the stakes, with high lethality and constant pressure until they reach some temporary safe checkpoint. Give them a chance to regroup, level, rest, but never let them think they are secure. Dribble out the info on what they are facing and let them win a victory or two. Have a siege episode where they face wave after wave, with barely a chance at a short rest (maybe taking turns, if they are smart), until they are totally depleted.

[Tanarii]

I think it would be better to make them sweat and worry about running out of spells/resources. What's the point of turning up the heat if you give them an easy out?I assumed from the way he described, he was going to greatly exceed the number of advised encounters per the DMG guidelines, between what would normally be long rest points.

That wouldn't be sweating, it'd be death. Same as an extended dungeon crawl. At that point, you have to turn up the rest mechanic, or it's more than the characters can feasibly handle mechanically.

[Pope Scarface]

The game assumes the PCs fight through encounters. The OP seems to want the PCs to run/evade most encounters, and for stand and fight to be a last resort. Epic Heroism rest is the opposite of what you should do to accomplish that.

[djreynolds]

Go online and find UNDERMOUNTAIN, a great adventure. Just refluff it. Minimal merchants, so they have to drop stuff or carry it all.

One of my favorite campaigns ever.

[Kane0]

Might be worth reading through some SilverClawShift and Kaveman campaign logs, when they want to do pressure they really stack it on.

[Moo, I'm Human]

I'm currently playing a LARP really similar to this sort of thing. Think France under German control in WW2. Really fun, but scary as hell.

[Tanarii]

The game assumes the PCs fight through encounters. The OP seems to want the PCs to run/evade most encounters, and for stand and fight to be a last resort. Epic Heroism rest is the opposite of what you should do to accomplish that.
Huh. I just went and read the OP, and I'm still not seeing where you're getting that. He talks about striking at smaller forces guerrilla style while staying on the run, and to me that means lots and lots and lots of hit and run / sneak attack encounters, while evading the really big forces, before there is any opportunity to sit still for an hour and rest. Whereas five minute breathers might be far more attainable every 2-3 encounters.

OP, care to clarify on how many encounters per opportunity to Short and Long rest you are thinking are likely to happen? (Or more accurately, per chance to hole for an hour or eight hours, respectively.)

[Giant2005]

You could start them at higher level, but use the slow rest rules (8 hours short rest, 7 days long rest).

That way it takes planning and effort to regain resources, and they will be resource starved which encourage "encounter avoidance strategies."

I'm a big fan of the gritty rest rules, but I think they would be a bad idea in this case.
With the usual, shorter rests, the DM can control their rests a bit better while still keeping the pressure on. Most nights they won't get a long rest because the zombie horde will interfere with it, but if you want to give them a break so they can get a long rest in, then all you need to do is leave them unmolested for a single night. Leaving them unmolested for 7 nights in order to achieve the same effect is much more difficult, and doing so would remove a lot of tension.

[Knaight]

The campaign style works just fine. I'd recommend implementing some systems to handle the effects of attrition on military forces here (as that's how guerilla campaigns work), working in random encounters thoroughly, and just generally having things that help deal with a world moving around the PCs where they have effects that are comparatively minor. It could also help to have some significant goals strewn throughout for varying levels, which the PCs may or may not engage with, but which have bigger effects if they do.

[FightStyles]

I'm going to kind of disagree with everyone here so far.

Since you will be a new DM, I would not recommend a campaign like this. Encounter building is hard to get right, and even harder to master. I'm afraid you might end up TPK'ing your party rather quickly, and from personal experience, the group may not want you to DM again.

Instead, I would recommend a little more loosely written campaign by giving them some things to do in the beginning. You'll eventually find a hook within the first couple sessions. Then after a few months or so of playing, you come back to the lichdom war.

[Toadkiller]

You can probably do both. Have the war break out. They get swept away in the chaos, perhaps literally they can catch a boat/raft or something that puts them out of the main struggle. They then have some more "conventional" encounters, bandits or something. This lets you run a few encounters and them level up. Then they get chances to become more involved in the fight. Putting the undead on one side of a major obstacle like a mile wide river also makes it so the heros can escape to relative safety. Some things can cross, or are already there, but the main focus is elsewhere.