DM needing help to interpret rules.

[charlzheimer]

i am currently running a 3.5 campaign and i have a bit of a problem with rules and 1 specific player.

one of my players has this weird RULES as interpreted build with the Kusari-gama in wich he dual wields 2 of these and has 4 attacks.

now both the dm master guide and the oriental adventures book from 3.0 Do not allow this; the 3.0 version specifically states so and DMG is a single Die weapon so it doesnt work like that.


now player claims he showed the pdf stating this, claiming an errate, it looks official but i cannot tell the version and the website it is from is semi dead/reference to paizo.

www . traykon.com/pdf/dmg_errata.pdf -> this is the pdf (i think) but even now i fail to see if its legit. (aka official) or what version it is.

for those not trusting of the link, here is a copy pasted version of the link below.

p. 161, col. 2: (INSERT As a Large, Exotic weapon)
Kusari-gama*† 10 gp 1d6/1d4 x2 — 3 lb. Slashing/Bludgeoning
Kusari-gama: A kusari-gama can be used either as a double weapon or as a reach weapon. You can fight
with it as if fighting with two weapons, incurring all the normal attack penalties as if using a one-handed
weapon and a light weapon. In this case, you can only strike at an adjacent opponent.
If you use the kusari-gama as a reach weapon, you can strike opponents 10 feet away with it. In addition,
unlike other weapons with reach, you can use it against an adjacent foe. In this case, you can only use one end
of the kusari-gama effectively; you cannot use it as a double weapon. You can choose which end of the kusarigama
to use. The kama end deals 1d6 points of damage and is a slashing weapon; the chain end deals 1d4 points
of damage and is a bludgeoning weapon.
You can make trip attacks with a kusari-gama. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop
the kusari-gama to avoid being tripped.
When using a kusari-gama, you get a +2 bonus on your opposed attack roll when attempting to disarm an
opponent (including the roll to avoid being disarmed if you fail to disarm your opponent).
You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to
attack rolls with a kusari-gama.


the character wielding 2 of these (resized) is SMALL.



EDIT: I just saw this weapon also doesn't ALLOW it be used as a double weapon. IS there any version of this weapon that allows the kurasagami to be used as a double weapon???





ps: sorry for the messed up link....not a very active member on the forums so far.

[nedz]

That's not the 3.5 DMG Errata

Official Errata are here (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/errata).

[charlzheimer]

thank you for the swift reply.


does anybody know of a spiked chain or a kurasagami that ALLOWS use as a double weapon

speaking 1d4/1d3 for small creatures?

[Nibbens]

I might be crazy, but is he confusing the terms "Double weapon" And "Two weapon fighting?" Because those are two very different things.

Double weapons are usually (if not - all of them) 2 handed weapons (requiring both hands to use) but allowing a PC to make attacks with them as though they were 2 independent weapons.

Imagine Donatello from the ninja turtles (or Darth Maul, if you're so inclined). The staff is a traditional Double weapon - requiring both hands to use effectively, but allowing for striking with both ends of the stick.

Two weapon fighting are single hand weapons that a PC can choose to hold one in each hand he has. He gets 1 attack with each weapon until he gets his additional attacks (Which then only apply with one weapon - until he starts taking the 2 weapon fighting feats)

Clear as mud, right? :D

[Darrin]

There are two versions of the kusari-gama. The DMG version is a light one-handed weapon with reach that can attack adjacent. The Oriental Adventures version is a double weapon, but I don't recall if you can use it as a reach weapon... I'm away from books. Both sources are 3.5, but if you want to get technical about it, the OA version supercedes the DMG version because the 3.5 update for OA was printed after the DMG. However, it was printed in Dragon Magazine #314, so it was never released for free, and a lot of groups ignore or disallow the OA 3.5 update because it's so hard to find in print.

There's also a "chain" weapon that appears in both OA and Savage Species, and this works as either a reach weapon or a double weapon, but not at the same time. When you say he gets four attacks, it's not clear to me if those are iterative or due to TWF.

It is possible to wield multiple spiked chains at the same time: Totemist 2 or Diopsid/Thri-Kreen with Cavestalker 4 and Oversized TWF can wield a spiked chain in each hand. While it's fun to roll all those attacks, it's not nearly as effective as a duom + two-handed Power Attack.

[Twurps]

....
Kusari-gama: A kusari-gama can be used either as a double weapon or as a reach weapon. You can fight
with it as if fighting with two weapons, incurring all the normal attack penalties as if using a one-handed
weapon and a light weapon. In this case, you can only strike at an adjacent opponent.
If you use the kusari-gama as a reach weapon, you can strike opponents 10 feet away with it. In addition,
unlike other weapons with reach, you can use it against an adjacent foe. In this case, you can only use one end
of the kusari-gama effectively; you cannot use it as a double weapon. ....

The mechanic seems pretty clear, and I can actually see it working like that IRL too,so its not too much of a stretch. you have 2 options:
1) use it as a double weapon, you get: 2 attacks on a full attack + iteratives on your main-hand+ anything granted by (TWF) feats. you do not have reach. (you hold the chain in both hands, with your hands at about 1/3 the length of the chain from either end. (leaving a third of the chain between your hands to allow both hands to move somewhat freely)
2) use it as a reach weapon. holding it in just 1 hand (as it is light). You get reach, but only 1 attack + iteratives + anything from feats. (you hold the chain a one end, leaving a lot of chain to swing with, thus giving reach)

Because it is a light weapon, you can RAW use 2 different ones for TWFighting. (I have yet to see someone pull this off IRL without hopelessly entangling the chains, but far more silly/broken stuff occurs in just about any d&d sessions so it doesn't bother me)
Doing this would mean you get the number of attack of option 1: so 2 attacks on a full attack + iteratives on your main-hand+ anything granted by (TWF) feats.

Depending on level and feats, 4 attacks is certainly possible, this in no way is a problem with the kusari-gama though. The number of attacks should be the same if he/she was fighting with 2 daggers.

[frost890]

i am currently running a 3.5 campaign and i have a bit of a problem with rules and 1 specific player.

one of my players has this weird RULES as interpreted build with the Kusari-gama in wich he dual wields 2 of these and has 4 attacks.



check out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPdEgw_WBZs
It shows how the weapon works. At the end it shows how it is used for TWF. He is either confused or trying to put one over on you. the only way someone can use two at the same time is if they have multiple sets of arms.