The Philosophy of Greyview the Warg

[napoleon_in_rag]

Only certainty in life: When icy jaws of death come, you will not have had enough treats. Nod. Get Treat.

I love it.

[Mad Humanist]

May be Greyview could publish his philosophy. Then he get many treats.

[BobTheDog]

Nihilist warg is the best warg in the comic so far.

[LunarDrop]

Wargism philosophy
Nod. Get treat.

[napoleon_in_rag]

Gems like this are why OotS is my favorite rpg based web comic.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Post in thread. Get treat.

[Alchemist_Fire]

:belkar: "Oh come on! If nodding isn't enough to pay my fare to Treattown, I officially have no idea what you people want from me!"

[BannedInSchool]

Although eventually one may find the concession not worth the reward. Growl. Five-foot step. Full Attack.

[Vinyadan]

Well, the tragedy is that he doesn't have thumbs, and therefore cannot produce his own treats, and will forever have to nod for them. Which is very much akin the human condition, when it comes to health, nice weather and a lot of other things.

[Professor Gnoll]

Nod head, get treat. Bite master? Get beat.

[Darth Paul]

Nihilist warg is the best warg in the comic so far.

I'm not 100% certain of this, but isn't he the ONLY warg in the comic so far? :smallbiggrin:

(Under those criteria, I'm the best Darth Paul in the forum...)

Post in thread. Get treat.

Here's your treat.

[KillingAScarab]

Until proven otherwise in Rich's comic, I believe it is actually, "worg." Tolkien's works use an "a" in the name (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warg). D&D uses an "o" in the name (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/worg.htm).


I'm not 100% certain of this, but isn't he the ONLY warg in the comic so far? :smallbiggrin:

(Under those criteria, I'm the best Darth Paul in the forum...)


Here's your treat.Unless there has been a worg in the bonus strips in the books.
How would you feel if there were a Darth Paul in the book bonus strips?

[Professor Gnoll]

Until proven otherwise in Rich's comic, I believe it is actually, "worg." Tolkien's works use an "a" in the name (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warg). D&D uses an "o" in the name (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/worg.htm).
It is indeed 'worg'. Look at panel 4.

[KillingAScarab]

It is indeed 'worg'. Look at panel 4.https://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Oona_zpstooqci2y.png "Yes! Good. Learning is happening."

[Darth Paul]

Until proven otherwise in Rich's comic, I believe it is actually, "worg." Tolkien's works use an "a" in the name (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warg). D&D uses an "o" in the name (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/worg.htm).

How would you feel if there were a Darth Paul in the book bonus strips?

Is futile to argue.

Nod. Get treat.

I think that would probably be evidence that we're in a bizarre alternate universe.

[Mordae]

I don't always nod my head, but when I do, I expect to get a treat.

[dtilque]

I'm not 100% certain of this, but isn't he the ONLY warg in the comic so far? :smallbiggrin:

Right Eye is riding what I assume is a worg.

[Vinyadan]

This Worg/Warg thing reminds me of Roy/Ray and Bozzok/Bozzak. :smallbiggrin:

[Ruslan]

I believe "warg" with an 'a' is a Game of Thrones thing. D&D, Tolkien and Rich all use worg with an 'o'.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I believe "warg" with an 'a' is a Game of Thrones thing. D&D, Tolkien and Rich all use worg with an 'o'.

No, warg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warg) is coser to the original norse spelling vargr. Make of that what you will, but it definitely predates GoT.

GW

[Kareasint]

Until proven otherwise in Rich's comic, I believe it is actually, "worg." Tolkien's works use an "a" in the name (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warg). D&D uses an "o" in the name (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/worg.htm).



Worgs have a WIS of 14. Above average common sense means that he keeps nodding to get more treats.

[Vinyadan]

Is worg actually ever used outside D&D? This feels like one of those tarasque > tarrasque things.

[Darth Paul]

Right Eye is riding what I assume is a worg.

Yes! Good. Learning is happening.

I hope I don't start talking like this all the time...

[veti]

This Worg/Warg thing reminds me of Roy/Ray and Bozzok/Bozzak. :smallbiggrin:

True. I was unsure whether it was "Roy" or "Ray" right up until I read one of the printed books. In the font used in the comic back then, it's very hard to tell the difference.

Nowadays, however... not so much.

[snowblizz]

No, warg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warg) is coser to the original norse spelling vargr. Make of that what you will, but it definitely predates GoT.

GW
Or contemporary Swedish, "varg" meaning wolf.

[Mordae]

Linguistics argument is futile. Nod. Get treat.

[aurilee]

Greyview could make a killing out of self-help and motivational seminars.

I know I'd go.

*nods* *waits for treat*

[Darth Paul]

*throws treats in all directions*
*runs away*

[KillingAScarab]

Does an abundance of treats mean we are more likely or less likely to encounter the icy jaws of death?

[KorvinStarmast]

*throws treats in all directions*
*runs away*forum now resembles an assembly of bobble head dolls.

[Elenna]

I believe "warg" with an 'a' is a Game of Thrones thing. D&D, Tolkien and Rich all use worg with an 'o'.

No, Tolkien definitely uses "warg" with an 'a'. (As does Game of Thrones, yes, although if I understand correctly (I'm not a huge GoT fan) Game of Thrones uses it to describe a person who can take over ("warg into") an animal's body. LoTR uses it the same way as D&D, as a name for a semi-intelligent wolflike creature.)

[Necrus Philius]

Does an abundance of treats mean we are more likely or less likely to encounter the icy jaws of death?

Question futile, never enough treats. Nod and get treats.

[aurilee]

Nod and get treats.

I find your use of a conjunction disturbing.

[Blue Ghost]

Does an abundance of treats mean we are more likely or less likely to encounter the icy jaws of death?

Icy jaws of death a certainty. Futile to resist. Nod. Get treat.

[littlebum2002]

What if the warg can warg into another warg?

[KorvinStarmast]

What if the warg can warg into another warg?
Why do you hate the space-time continuum in OoTS land? :smallbiggrin: It's bad enough that it's turtles all the way down in one fantasy reality, we don't need wargs all the way down the worm holes in this one. :smalleek:

I think those treats have catnip in them and some of you all overindulged.




*nods*

[martianmister]

What if the warg can warg into another warg?

Depends on the warg you're talking about. Only human wargs can warg into other wargs. But it's frowned upon to warg into humans, so they can only warg into non-human wargs.

[Darth Paul]

*nods*
*gets treat*

[napoleon_in_rag]

No, Tolkien definitely uses "warg" with an 'a'. (As does Game of Thrones, yes, although if I understand correctly (I'm not a huge GoT fan) Game of Thrones uses it to describe a person who can take over ("warg into") an animal's body. LoTR uses it the same way as D&D, as a name for a semi-intelligent wolflike creature.)

Is this part of the legal fight between the Tolkien estate and D&D that happened back in the seventies? When D&D was forced to change the names of certain creatures to not infringe on the Middle Earth copyrights?

When D&D had to change Hobbits into Halflings, Ents into Treants, and Balrogs into Balor?

[Emanick]

Is this part of the legal fight between the Tolkien estate and D&D that happened back in the seventies? When D&D was forced to change the names of certain creatures to not infringe on the Middle Earth copyrights?

When D&D had to change Hobbits into Halflings, Ents into Treants, and Balrogs into Balor?

That's a thing that happened? Wow. That explains so much.

[Vinyadan]

What if the warg can warg into another warg?

What if the smurf smurfs into another smurf?

BTW, OotS tends to use the same grid as the Smurfs and Asterix, also known as Belgian Grid: 3 x 4 panels.

[martianmister]

Is this part of the legal fight between the Tolkien estate and D&D that happened back in the seventies? When D&D was forced to change the names of certain creatures to not infringe on the Middle Earth copyrights?

When D&D had to change Hobbits into Halflings, Ents into Treants, and Balrogs into Balor?

Considering that Warg is not something Tolkien created and it's freely used in many different franchises, it's highly unlikely.

[Doug Lampert]

That's a thing that happened? Wow. That explains so much.

Early D&D was pretty free with other people's trademarks.

They used Cthulhu mythos creatures and Tolkien creatures and names.

They got Cease and Desists from both estates, and stripped the references and changed various names.

[Sir_Norbert]

Still, "warg" was never a trademarked name. It comes straight from the mythology. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warg)

[Darth Paul]

What if the smurf smurfs into another smurf?

BTW, OotS tends to use the same grid as the Smurfs and Asterix, also known as Belgian Grid: 3 x 4 panels.

Smurftacular!

[KorvinStarmast]

What if the smurf smurfs into another smurf?

BTW, OotS tends to use the same grid as the Smurfs and Asterix, also known as Belgian Grid: 3 x 4 panels. Would this render Rich as Drawgmatix?

(Fan of Asterix since youth ...)

[zimmerwald1915]

What if the smurf smurfs into another smurf?
The moral guardians would get all up in arms. For the children, supposedly.

[KorvinStarmast]

Grim specter of noogie hangs like shroud over us all.

Deadpan delivery, excellent lines. (Need to find a treat for this canine philosopher).

[Yakk]

Her philosophy is pretty dire.

[Darth Paul]

Wait... I feel like my pun detector just went off...

[AvatarVecna]

Grim specter of noogie hangs like shroud over us all.

This line, in-comic, absolutely killed me. I love this character so much...

[dehro]

Am I the only one who was immediately reminded of Marvin, the paranoid android, by this character?

[hroþila]

Considering that Warg is not something Tolkien created and it's freely used in many different franchises, it's highly unlikely.
Wouldn't be the first time someone did something legally unnecessary just to be safe.

Me, I'm both amused and horrified that they decided to simply change one letter at random and call it a day.

[littlebum2002]

Is this part of the legal fight between the Tolkien estate and D&D that happened back in the seventies? When D&D was forced to change the names of certain creatures to not infringe on the Middle Earth copyrights?

When D&D had to change Hobbits into Halflings, Ents into Treants, and Balrogs into Balor?


Wouldn't be the first time someone did something legally unnecessary just to be safe.

Me, I'm both amused and horrified that they decided to simply change one letter at random and call it a day.

I'm looking up the history of the "worg", and I don't believe it was in the original version of D&D (the one with the multiple copyright infringements), it looks like it was only introduced in AD&D. So it was probably created after Gygax and Arneson realized they couldn't just blatantly copy Tolkien's work.

But I too would love to meet the lawyer who figured out that "warg" was infringement but "worg" was A-OK.

[Roland Itiative]

Early D&D was pretty free with other people's trademarks.

They used Cthulhu mythos creatures and Tolkien creatures and names.

They got Cease and Desists from both estates, and stripped the references and changed various names.

Really, they got kicked out of the Cthulhu mythos? I thought absolutely anyone could contribute to that, being a shared universe (Pathfinder also uses a few elements straight out of it, if I recall correctly).

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Wouldn't be the first time someone did something legally unnecessary just to be safe.

Me, I'm both amused and horrified that they decided to simply change one letter at random and call it a day.

Eh. I'd put my money on a transcription (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nome,_Alaska#Etymology) error. Someone convinced they could spell it without looking it up on the previous edition's manual ("which was, like, two desks over. So not worth getting. Of course I can spell woarg.")

Grey Wolf

[hamishspence]

Really, they got kicked out of the Cthulhu mythos? I thought absolutely anyone could contribute to that, being a shared universe (Pathfinder also uses a few elements straight out of it, if I recall correctly).

Apparently they had to credit Chaosium - and they did:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deities_%26_Demigods

but eventually TSR decided "We don't want to reference our competitors" so the 1981 edition took Cthulhu stuff out.

[Darth Tom]

forum now resembles an assembly of bobble head dolls.

We need Greyview bobbleheads

[Professor Gnoll]

We need Greyview bobbleheads
With strings that, when pulled, cause the bobblehead to spout a line of bleak yet insightful worg-based wisdom.

[napoleon_in_rag]

Perhaps Greyview is pessimistic because the Dire Wolves keep getting killed in Game of Thrones.

[Roland Itiative]

Perhaps Greyview is pessimistic because the Dire Wolves keep getting killed in Game of Thrones.

That's because they don't nod.

[nerdnumber1]

I'm guessing that they might have changed the spelling of warg/worg out of an abundance of caution. They had to change a bunch of other names anyway, so why not sprinkle a few extra spelling changes in there, just in case? Apparently they changed enough that they got away with it, even though they pulled stuff like having a light-but-strong, silvery metal "mithral" not to be confused with the light-but-strong, silvery metal "mithril" from LotR.

I wonder what would happen if Greyview were transformed into humanoid form, granting him the ability to obtain treats without assistance...

[napoleon_in_rag]

That's because they don't nod.

Perhaps they should have been pessimistic from the start and realize that running with the Starks is not a way to live a long life.

[napoleon_in_rag]

I wonder what would happen if Greyview were transformed into humanoid form, granting him the ability to obtain treats without assistance...

I think he's assume that something bad would happen because "Nothing is easy. Life is hard, dying is worse."

[mouser9169]

I think he's assume that something bad would happen because "Nothing is easy. Life is hard, dying is worse."

I'm glad Oona finally replied to him. I was seriously starting to wonder how many people actually 'heard' what he was saying.

[Crusher]

I think he's assume that something bad would happen because "Nothing is easy. Life is hard, dying is worse."

You'd feel the same if the grim specter of noogies hung over you like a shroud, too.

[fabiocbinbutter]

Greyview (descriptive name anyone?) is now my favorite character, or perhaps second to Malack.

I would love to see some subtle reference to Nihilist Arby's thrown in :D

[napoleon_in_rag]

So Greyview's food choices are:

A) Treats

B) "Bitter fruit of eternal despair"



That's why he nods!

[KillingAScarab]

B) "Bitter fruit of eternal despair"Most people just say, "sour grapes," but most people aren't old talking wolves stuck in the arctic circle.

[sengmeng]

Gestures at signature. Gets treat.

[Gragnor]

Awww, shucks. Until I re-read the introduction of Greyview I thought for sure she was a quirky pun on the Dire Wolf... a "fearsome dog" (Canis dirus) for sure, but also a wolf with a very dire outlook on life.

[dancrilis]

Reading through his quotes he may be an example of a Neutral Evil character pushing the Nihilistic attitude that is sometimes associated with that alignment for comedic affect.

[AuthorGirl]

Depends on the warg you're talking about. Only human wargs can warg into other wargs. But it's frowned upon to warg into humans, so they can only warg into non-human wargs.

There is an excessive abundance of the word "warg" in this post.

Sorry I have no treats, but please nod anyway.

[Harrymcb]

I loved the first 2 appearances of greyveiw, but after that he started to get a little too nihilist for me. He seems to take any opportunity to spread miserable feelings

[kiros]

I believe "warg" with an 'a' is a Game of Thrones thing. D&D, Tolkien and Rich all use worg with an 'o'.
Unless I'm mistaken, Tolkien used wArg, d&d used wOrg to avoid authorial hell

right? get treat

[Hecuba]

Unless I'm mistaken, Tolkien used wArg, d&d used wOrg to avoid authorial hell

right? get treat

almost right. gives lesser-quality treat


"Worg" was not something that got changed at the same time as things like "hobbit" and "balrog." Its also very clearly not Tolkien's intellectual property.

Whether the spelling choice was chosen out of fear of litigation or out of some other desire is unclear: it could be branding, it could be an error in editing, it could be trying to call back to the fact that the original Norse word they are based on meant both "wolf" and "criminal." It could even be a lawyer or editor running scared from the Tolken lawsuit, but it could not be a situation where that lawyer or editor's concerns were actually merited.

[Qaanol]

Greyview’s philosophy is morally justified.

[AvatarVecna]

I loved the first 2 appearances of greyveiw, but after that he started to get a little too nihilist for me. He seems to take any opportunity to spread miserable feelings

Gosh, it's almost like he's a consistent character, instead of a punchline generator.

[hroþila]

[The spelling "worg"] could be trying to call back to the fact that the original Norse word they are based on meant both "wolf" and "criminal."
I'm unsure how that'd work. The word was Old Norse vargr, West Saxon Old English wearg, Anglian Old English warg. No need for worg on these grounds.

[Darth Paul]

It could even be a lawyer or editor running scared from the Tolken lawsuit, but it could not be a situation where that lawyer or editor's concerns were actually merited.

Running scared from lawsuit is always merited.

Run; get away. Not run; risk being tangled in tanglefoot bag of law.

[Hecuba]

I'm unsure how that'd work. The word was Old Norse vargr, West Saxon Old English wearg, Anglian Old English warg. No need for worg on these grounds.

If you go back to the proto-germanic *wargaz and examine where the wolf/criminal meanings split off reliably, a substantial number of the terms still in use that mean criminal end up deriving through *wurgijaną. Those terms often end up with into "u" and "o" spellings in German, Low German, Dutch, and English (with German tending to "U" and English tending to "O" and the others being a mix, but all of them moving back and forth liberally until spelling standardization). Examples include "worgen", "wurgen", "worry."

In contrast, where the "wolf" meaning persists in modern usage "a" is more common ("Varg" - Swedish, "Vargur" - icelandic, "warg" - Tokien-ish).

----------------------------------

All things considered I think it more likely they were running scared from a lawsuit, but it wasn't a change made at the same time as the infamous "hobbit" change and (considering "warg" is how a significant number of people would transliterate the Swedish word that literally means "wolf") that lawsuit would have been utterly without merit: it certainly wasn't a reasoned and precise legal decision on how close they could get without infringing, since the answer to such a question would have been that they could use the exact same spelling.