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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Barbarian Archetype - Path of the Titan [PEACH]



jinjitsu
2016-05-21, 07:47 PM
A barbarian Primal Path inspired by Pathfinder's Titan Mauler archetype, though I think I've come up with some interesting features to make this its own thing.


PATH OF THE TITAN
Barbarian tribes often roam the lands of giants, and many warriors seek to emulate these hulking brutes as they fight them. Those who pursue the Path of the Titan take this to its conclusion - whether through magic, a divine gift, or sharing the blood of giants, they gain the ability to grow in size as they rage, eventually growing powerful enough to wield the weapons of lesser giants for themselves.

Bulk Up
Starting when you choose this path at 3rd level, you can grow larger when you rage. If you do so, weapon attacks you make using Strength deal 1d4 extra damage. Your size remains the same, but you can't use this feature while wearing armor unless the armor is made to accommodate your increased mass, and clothing not made to accommodate it may be destroyed when you grow larger.

Giant Wrestler
Beginning at 6th level, you can grapple or shove creatures up to 2 sizes larger than you, and you can't be grappled or shoved by creatures whose size is smaller than yours.

Destructive
Beginning at 10th level, your melee weapon attacks deal double damage to objects and structures.

Giant's Grip
Starting at 14th level, while you're raging, you ignore the two-handed quality for melee weapons crafted for creatures of your size or smaller. In addition, while you're raging, you can wield melee weapons designed for Large creatures. A Large-sized weapon uses double the damage dice of a Small or Medium weapon of the same type.
Attacks with Large-sized weapons or Small/Medium two-handed weapons wielded in one hand don't gain the extra damage granted by the Bulk Up feature.

As far as balance, the Titan is still coming out just behind the Berserker in damage output (see the Damage Math spoiler), and the real damage spike doesn't come online until they get Giant's Grip. There's no real increase to defenses other than the grapple immunity from Giant Wrestler, but Small and Tiny creatures aren't going to be doing much grappling anyway. Still, though, I welcome critiques and advice!
Without going into too much detail, I averaged the damage against AC 1-26 from a Berserker against a Titan - assuming maximum Strength, a level 20 Berserker is averaging 42.41 with a greataxe and 47.91 with a greatsword, while a Titan is averaging 39.92 with a Large greataxe and 44.40 with a Large greatsword.

Foxhound438
2016-05-22, 01:11 AM
ithout going into too much detail, I averaged the damage against AC 1-26 from a Berserker against a Titan - assuming maximum Strength, a level 20 Berserker is averaging 42.41 with a greataxe and 47.91 with a greatsword, while a Titan is averaging 39.92 with a Large greataxe and 44.40 with a Large greatsword.

did you calculate looking at using a large polearm with PAM? it's probably not a ton better, but here's the comparison:

greatsword berserker: 6d6+21+12 (average 54 on all hits)

titan with large halberd: 4d10+2d4+3d4(size up rage)+21+12 (average 67.5 on all hits)

the hit chance is the same in all cases here, and both can add GWM, which again would hit at the same rate in both cases.

Granted, that's an extra feat to get there but a Vuman can start with GWM and have 4 ASI to max con and str, and still have one for PAM. You would end up losing out on reaction attacks with the PAM titan build here, as berserkers get a much more consistent feature for attacking with their reaction.

Overall I'd say it's strong but not broken. Maybe change the level 14 feature to say "when you use reckless attack you can forego advantage on attack rolls and instead have the weapon's damage dice become twice the damage dice they would normally be for a medium weapon of the same type." benefits here would be two-fold: first, you lose out on advantage, meaning GWM+PAM+titan would be slightly worse; second, a player trying to use this won't have to go out of their way to find a large weapon, or fight the DM who intentionally never gives them one.

jinjitsu
2016-05-22, 02:38 AM
titan with large halberd: 4d10+2d4+3d4(size up rage)+21+12 (average 67.5 on all hits)

As the Giant's Grip description says, you don't get the Bulk Up bonus if you're wielding a Large weapon, so that'd be 2 attacks at 2d10 + 5 Str + 4 Rage, and one attack at 2d4 + 5 Strength + 4 Rage.

Aside from that, a big part of the reason I didn't bother doing the math for that feat is that its effect isn't telling of the balance of the archetype itself - you tack PAM and GWM onto any frontline fighter that isn't a Berserker, and their damage is going to max out. Feats and multiclassing make things start to work together in weird ways that don't really reflect the power of the class itself.


Overall I'd say it's strong but not broken. Maybe change the level 14 feature to say "when you use reckless attack you can forego advantage on attack rolls and instead have the weapon's damage dice become twice the damage dice they would normally be for a medium weapon of the same type." benefits here would be two-fold: first, you lose out on advantage, meaning GWM+PAM+titan would be slightly worse; second, a player trying to use this won't have to go out of their way to find a large weapon, or fight the DM who intentionally never gives them one.

I don't really want to make an archetype mess with the core class's features if there isn't a precedent, so I don't like the idea of making this change Reckless Attack. Plus, tweaking the function of the feature that way would make it difficult to make wielding two-handers in one hand work smoothly, and that's one of the few defensive benefits of the archetype - getting to wield a greatsword/greataxe in one hand and a shield in the other.

As for not being able to get a Large weapon, it's pretty hard for a level 17+ adventurer to go more than a day without fighting at least one Large monster with a weapon.

Final Hyena
2016-05-22, 09:24 AM
A level 20 Titan with a greatsword

Attack 1
2d6 (weapon) + 7 (strength) + 4 (rage) +2.5 (bulk) Total 20.5
Attack 2
2d6 (weapon) + 7 (strength) + 4 (rage) +2.5 (bulk) Total 20.5
Two-Weapon Fighting
2d6 (weapon) + 4 (rage) +2.5 (bulk) Total 13.5

Total 54.5

A level 20 Titan with a large greatsword

Attack 1
4d6 (weapon) + 7 (strength) + 4 (rage) Total 25
Attack 2
4d6 (weapon) + 7 (strength) + 4 (rage) Total 25

Total 50

A level 20 Berserker with a greatsword
Attack 1
2d6 (weapon) + 7 (strength) + 4 (rage) Total 18
Attack 2
2d6 (weapon) + 7 (strength) + 4 (rage) Total 18
Frenzy
2d6 (weapon) + 7 (strength) + 4 (rage) Total 18
Retaliation
2d6 (weapon) + 7 (strength) + 4 (rage) Total 18

Total 54 to 72

Even when you take exhaustion into account I think the archetype is reasonably balanced, my issue is that the fun stuff (large weapons or TWF THWs) is all at level 14.