Cheapest Spell

[bugsysservant]

I'm just putting this out their to see: What is everybody's opinion on the single most overbalanced spell in the game?

Bear in mind that cheesiness can be balanced by high caster level, expencive component and/or XP cost. Wish, for instance, is by definition cheap (it can bend reality) but it also costs 5,000 XP and can only be accessed at very high levels.

Personally I vote for greater mage hand from the Spell Compendium. Essentially it works like mage hand but with a forty pound limit. This allows a first level halfling wizard to fly herself and 13 lbs. indefinitely (duration: concentration with no upward limit). At higher levels you can cast reduce on the party, cast the spell on a carpet, and fly them on that for as long as they are small. Admittedly, there is only a 20 ft. speed, but that is more than made up for by the low level and ridiculous power of the spell.

[Dark_Wind]

Except that it's useless in combat, since once you break concentration you drop like a rock. Besides, I think the spell specifies that the target is one object, so you can't lift a creature in any case.

[MeklorIlavator]

Alter self. Full effects of fly, earlier, and lasts longer. Plus other bonuses, depending on the caster.

[bugsysservant]

Except that it's useless in combat, since once you break concentration you drop like a rock. Besides, I think the spell specifies that the target is one object, so you can't lift a creature in any case.

As I said it isn't perfect, but yes it can target creatures "Target: One object or creature weighing up to 40 lb." and even if it couldn't, you can always cast it on someone's armor (Thomas Edison envisioned anti-gravity underwear) Plus the fact that you can fly at *FIRST LEVEL* with a potentially greater duration than overland flight (fifth level), more than makes up for the preparation of a feather fall spell if you are hit by an errant arrow. Or why bother with a feather fall spell when you can merely cast shield? The only thing that a very low level caster has to worry about would be arrows and magic missiles anyway.

[PaladinBoy]

I'd vote for celerity or greater celerity. Since it's an immediate action, you can use it when it's not your turn, and you can use the action it gives you to cast any one of the save-or-suck spells that a wizard has available...... even some that don't require saves.

[bugsysservant]

Forgot to mention...

If the source of the spell is anything other than core rulebooks, please cite source.

[TheLogman]

Limited Wish in the hands of Anyone with an imagination. Fighting a huge level 50 Cleric Lich Whatever? No problem, I wish that at any time during the entirety of time that any of this guy's ancestors got kicked where the sun don't shine, that person was under the effect of a True Strike spell, and the recipient of said kick became sterile. Now, that Lich doesn't exist any more, and depending on how far back the spell went, you could kill hundreds of baddies. Another wish you say? Okay, I wish that the creator of Necromancy was hit with an Insanity spell, and lost all the knowledge. Now, that huge Undead Horde is all gone. However, if you have a Sane Dm, then Prismatic Wall and Sphere are extremely powerful, with the last effect instantly killing everything. Polymorph Any Object, but at lower levels, I'm gonna defiantly have to go with Alter Self, all the fun of Polymorph, but at an extremely lower level.

[Nebo_]

Limited Wish in the hands of Anyone with an imagination. Fighting a huge level 50 Cleric Lich Whatever? No problem, I wish that at any time during the entirety of time that any of this guy's ancestors got kicked where the sun don't shine, that person was under the effect of a True Strike spell, and the recipient of said kick became sterile. Now, that Lich doesn't exist any more, and depending on how far back the spell went, you could kill hundreds of baddies. Another wish you say? Okay, I wish that the creator of Necromancy was hit with an Insanity spell, and lost all the knowledge. Now, that huge Undead Horde is all gone.

Have you actually read the descriptions of these spells? Maybe you should.

My vote goes to PaO, Gate, Shapechange and Celerity.

[MeklorIlavator]

Aren't we going for the most broken at the lowest level? We know Gate/Shapechange/Celerity/ect are broken, but what is the lowest level spell that is broken.

[bugsysservant]

Aren't we going for the most broken at the lowest level? We know Gate/Shapechange/Celerity/ect are broken, but what is the lowest level spell that is broken.

Actually I was thinking of the most broken proportionate to level. If spell x grants massive power when it comes available against creatures of a comparable CR, than it is more broken than spell y which becomes available at a lower level but gives less proportionate advantage to appropriate adversaries.

And no, I doubt limited wish could do those things unless you are a very good munchkin, or your DM is very bad. I'm not actually looking it up, but I seem to recall that even wish has a temporal barrier of a round or two into the past, thus preventing any wish concerning ancient events. Also chaos theory almost guarantees that any wishes along the lines of the above will also undo your characters by the unforseen complexity of screwing with the most complex iterative model and letting it run for years.

[TheLogman]

I realize now that that usage of Limited Wish would be a little too off, even though it technically applies (It says duplicate and spell of 4th or less, True Strike is a spell of 4th or less), a reasonable DM would not allow it, or would allow it, and then make a bunch of worse stuff in its place. And I did read the descriptions, It does allow the spells Insanity and True strike to be cast, and it doesn't specify that the spell has to affect anyone in particular.

But I digress. I vote for Gate, since it allows for the cheesiest of all Epic Spells, and Alter Self.

[Emperor Tippy]

Programmed Amnesia is the single most broken spell in D&D. It's in the Spell Compendium and it allows you to reprogram anyone from birth on, and set the reprogramming to come into effect once a certain condition is met.

[Duskwither]

Programmed Amnesia is horrible, but I love it so, so much.

Can you put that puppy on Outsiders? Nothing like legions of fiends at your beck and call over time...

[nathkry]

I like Unseen Servant and Servant Horde (spell compendium, as Unseen Servant, but it creates 2d6+1/cl, max +15). Now, before you laugh, think of what you can do. The spell creates an invisible, mindless, shapeless force capable of simple commands. This means that with it you could have it move under a door, look around the room, and come back and draw the contents on a sheet of paper or other material. After all, copying an image onto paper is pretty simple. Also, you could have it go inside of a mechanical lock and align the tumblers so that the lock opens. These are only a few possibilities.

[Felius]

No one will coment the auto-dragon-killing-spell-that-I-forgot-the-name-and-is-level-2?

[Jack Mann]

Level three, actually. Shivering touch.

[Solo]

Shivering Touch, Frostburn

[TheOOB]

Celerity, if you mix it with an ability that makes you immune to suprise you are basically impossible to kill...ever.

[Karsh]

Grease.

No, really.

Nobody takes ranks in Balance. A first level spell can completely incapacitate a monster. The only limitation is that it's only a 10 foot square, but if you're fighting Huge and larger enemies whilst relying on first level spells, you've got bigger problems.

Dispel Magic + Shatter = Poor man's Disjunction. Sure, it allows a save, but usually you're dispelling the Fighter's shiny sword that he's trying to gut you with, and fighters aren't notorious for having great Will saves, and items' saves usually suck even worse than that.

On the other end of the spectrum, Shapechange and PaO come to mind.

[CockroachTeaParty]

Let's see... I suppose that would be any 0 level spell... It only costs 12.5 gp to make a scroll of 'light,' for instance. That's pretty cheap. Oh, wait...


...

Get it? Cheap? God, I'm full of it tonight. Batten down the hatches!

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Contingency. Well-worded contingencies can save a wizard when no one should be able to be saved. The whole world could come to an end, yet a wizard with Contingency Celerity could use that action to Plane Shift elsewhere and not perish.

Polymorph Any Object. I took the feat Dragon-Blooded. I jack up my Caster Level. Congratulations, I'm permanently a Mature Adult Silver Dragon (25 HD). This gives me a +24 natural armor bonus, DR 10/Magic (not as useful, granted), breath weapon, SR 24, and a Frightful Presence DC 27, not to mention some insane stat bonuses (+18 Str, +10 to Con, Wis, and Cha). Why permanent? Well, if we look in the SRD, we find that we need a 9+ duration factor to become permanent. Same Kingdom is +5. Since a Dragon is an Animal, that works. Same Class... depends on if you consider dragons to be mammals. Probably not going to work. Same Size... no. Related... if you are Dragon Blooded, then yes, +2. Same or Lower Intellect: If you have an Int of 20 or more... then yes, +2. So if you have an Int of 20+ and are Dragon Blooded, then you get to be an Adult Dragon permanently. This is only one of a dozen completely broken ways to do things. Turning someone into a bunny forever works just as easily.

Time Stop. 1d4+1 rounds to do anything you want in Need I say more?

Forcecage. Win button vs anything smaller than Gargantuan that is a melee based critter. Level 40 Psudonatural Troll Barbarian... stuck in place so the wizard can simply rain down death and destruction until it falls over dead.

Cloudkill. Even on a successful save, does con damage. No SR either. Very very nasty when combined with Forcecage, Slow, Solid Fog, or any other way of keeping them stuck in place.

True Strike. +20 on your next attack, and you gain the benefit of both Precise Shot and Improved Precise Shot in the bargain? I'll take that. It completely negates the difficulty in using Ray spells (like Disintigrate). Since it's only 1st level, you can Quicken it cheaply.

Magic Missile. No save, No SR, No ranged touch attack roll. Just suck up the damage. 1d4+1 has the same average damage as 1d6, but has a higher minimum damage. For a 1st level spell, this thing is crack.

Shivering Touch. 3d6 dex damage. Ouch. Empower or Maximize it for even more nastiness, then follow it up with a Quickened one. Go away. Now.

Enervation. 1d4 negative levels, no save. Doesn't sound too nasty, eh? If it has more negative levels than HD, it dies. Twin Ray Empowered Enervation... 2d4 * 1.5... now we're talking. Then follow it up with a Quickened and we're talking some serious smack down. This is best for smacking other casters around.

Feeblemind. Will save, but arcane casters get a -4 on their save. Sucks to be them, eh? This can shut down any arcane gish fast, since whatever they're multiclassing with probably doesn't have a good will save to begin with, and Wisdom is usually a sub-par stat for arcane builds anyways.

[CockroachTeaParty]

Yeah, in all seriousness I second Feeblemind. It works on a lot of nasty critters that cast spells, and if your DM allows it, have spell-like abilities. I feebleminded a Death Slaad the other week. So long BBEG, hello Bruce the Babbling Frogman.

[Delaney Gale]

I'd agree with feeblemind... why has it only been used on party members so far?

(lesson to be learned- don't wake up the archmage asking if he knows knock so you can get into the liquor cabinet)

[Shhalahr Windrider]

I realize now that that usage of Limited Wish would be a little too off, even though it technically applies (It says duplicate and spell of 4th or less, True Strike is a spell of 4th or less), a reasonable DM would not allow it, or would allow it, and then make a bunch of worse stuff in its place.
True Strike can be cast on a person you never met and force them to use their attack on someone else you've never met and do so in a way it crosses the time stream—i.e. affecting people in the past? I don't think that's in the spell description.


And I did read the descriptions, It does allow the spells Insanity and True strike to be cast, and it doesn't specify that the spell has to affect anyone in particular.
Uh, I'm not sure you quite understand the idea behind "duplicating" a spell. That means (limited) wish behaves just as normal for the spell it is duplicating. This includes valid targets.

[TheLogman]

Okay fine, I apologize for my misunderstanding of Limited Wish.

[martyboy74]

Glitterdust is also rather powerful, though not nearly as powerful as the goodbye-you-oversized-lizard-with-lots-of-loot spell.

[Morty]

Teleport. No, seriously. It allows you to travel hundreds of miles in 6 seconds with very little chance of failure. Greater Teleport is even worse.

[bugsysservant]

Polymorph Any Object. I took the feat Dragon-Blooded. I jack up my Caster Level. Congratulations, I'm permanently a Mature Adult Silver Dragon (25 HD).

I had thought that Polymorph any object worked like polymorph-that is there is a limit of 15 HD. While it is still impressive to be able to polymorph into a dragon permanently, the limit should be young dragons for silver.

[Nekoshodan]

This talk of polymorphing into different age dragons got me thinking: if you're getting to be an old human, could you just permanently polymorph yourself into a young human?

if not, then polymorphing into a dragon would leave you as a very, very, very young dragon.

[barawn]

Limited Wish in the hands of Anyone with an imagination. Fighting a huge level 50 Cleric Lich Whatever? No problem, I wish that at any time during the entirety of time that any of this guy's ancestors got kicked where the sun don't shine, that person was under the effect of a True Strike spell, and the recipient of said kick became sterile.

Granted!

Note that you didn't specify that said attack happened before the lich's ancestors had a chance to procreate.

Wait, this isn't "Twist this Wish?"

[NullAshton]

Grease.

No, really.

Nobody takes ranks in Balance. A first level spell can completely incapacitate a monster. The only limitation is that it's only a 10 foot square, but if you're fighting Huge and larger enemies whilst relying on first level spells, you've got bigger problems.

Dispel Magic + Shatter = Poor man's Disjunction. Sure, it allows a save, but usually you're dispelling the Fighter's shiny sword that he's trying to gut you with, and fighters aren't notorious for having great Will saves, and items' saves usually suck even worse than that.

On the other end of the spectrum, Shapechange and PaO come to mind.

Funnily enough, you don't need ranks in balance to escape.

Stand up, and then JUMP out of the grease. Yes, jump. Jumping isn't subject to a balance check, thus you can jump out of the grease just fine.

[Fixer]

Funnily enough, you don't need ranks in balance to escape.

Stand up, and then JUMP out of the grease. Yes, jump. Jumping isn't subject to a balance check, thus you can jump out of the grease just fine.

As a GM, I would still rule this as movement subjected to a Balance check. It might not be in the rules but this is a relatively common sense thing.

[Rad]

Funnily enough, you don't need ranks in balance to escape.

Stand up, and then JUMP out of the grease. Yes, jump. Jumping isn't subject to a balance check, thus you can jump out of the grease just fine.

actually, jumping IS part of a move action, then you need to make the check


Action None. A Jump check is included in your movement, so it is part of a move action. If you run out of movement mid-jump, your next action (either on this turn or, if necessary, on your next turn) must be a move action to complete the jump.


moreover the spell description says that "you can walk through the area at half speed". Since you can always do that if you want, this can only mean that walking through the area at half speed is the ONLY movement allowed. So one could rule that you cannot jump out of the area at all (although more lax interpretations are appropriate).

[Cruiser1]

Magic Missile. No save, No SR, No ranged touch attack roll. Just suck up the damage. 1d4+1 has the same average damage as 1d6, but has a higher minimum damage. For a 1st level spell, this thing is crack.Note this isn't fully correct, where the Magic Missile (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicMissile.htm) spell is subject to spell resistance. It's still a very nice spell since it indeed always hits and there's no saving throw.

[bugsysservant]

This talk of polymorphing into different age dragons got me thinking: if you're getting to be an old human, could you just permanently polymorph yourself into a young human?

if not, then polymorphing into a dragon would leave you as a very, very, very young dragon.

Actually polymorphing changes you into an average member of the species. Since the "average" dragon is probably adult (which the spell can't reach), it could arguably turn you into the next most common allowed by the spell, probably the next most inclusive age category, generally either Young or Juvenile.

Alternatively the DM could rule that with a creature with as wide a range of powers over such a long life, there is no such thing as "average", and allow the player to choose which type of dragon he would prefer.

The final option would be that the DM could rule that you turn into the proportional age category relative to the lifespan of the respective species closest to that allowed by the spell, in this case, unless your character is VERY young, Young or Juvenile.

Or, if your DM is too lazy to think about it, he could merely change you into a random human, since you can't pick exceptional qualities for yourself to acquire. Thus you're as likely to change into yourself then a younger human.

[lord_khaine]

talking about the highlv spells, what about astral projecton.

[Arbitrarity]

How is that broken/cheap?

[02youeng]

A broken combination I've had two of my players use together

Widened Extended Blast Fireball + Forcecage

Ok, a 40x40x40 foot blast contained in a 5x5x5 foot space [they were fighting a Halfling]

Now, science would tell us that with that much blast encased, more damage should be done.

40x40x40 = 64,000
5x5x5 = 125

64,000/125 = 512

20d6 damage....x by 512 for 10,240d6 damage

Reflex save for half anyone?

[SpiderBrigade]

It doesn't count as a broken combination if you use houserules to pull it off, IMO.

[SadisticFishing]

Ha, funny if the halfling made the save and had Evasion.

[Piccamo]

A broken combination I've had two of my players use together

Widened Extended Blast Fireball + Forcecage

Ok, a 40x40x40 foot blast contained in a 5x5x5 foot space [they were fighting a Halfling]

Now, science would tell us that with that much blast encased, more damage should be done.

40x40x40 = 64,000
5x5x5 = 125

64,000/125 = 512

20d6 damage....x by 512 for 10,240d6 damage

Reflex save for half anyone?

That's an interesting houserule, but unfortunately that's not how DnD fireballs work.

[Amphimir Míriel]

Broken 1st level spells:

Grease and True Strike: Already explained here

Sleep: Should probably be a second level spell... too many 1st and 2nd level encounters are ended by this spell

Color Spray: Its effects are too extreme for such a silly, low level spell!

Ray of Enfeeblement: Also way too powerful

[Piccamo]

True Strike really isn't broken. At the cost of doing anything else in one round you make sure you hit in the next round. If you're a caster type, there aren't many reasons to use True Strike and if you're a gish you're giving up an attack which you would have probably hit on anyway. It just isn't really worth it unless you can find a way to make it quickened, at which point there are better things to be using a 5th level spell-slot on or a charge from that rod.

[Catharsis]

Hold Person is the cheapest save-or-die available. It's absurdly easy to kill a PC with that. You just need an orc with a greataxe standing ready to coup-de-grace. A 3rd level cleric and a 1st level orc fighter have something like a 70% chance to kill an 8th level barbarian in 1 round.

It would help if coup-de-grace were interruptible.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

A broken combination I've had two of my players use together

Widened Extended Blast Fireball + Forcecage

Ok, a 40x40x40 foot blast contained in a 5x5x5 foot space [they were fighting a Halfling]

Now, science would tell us that with that much blast encased, more damage should be done.

40x40x40 = 64,000
5x5x5 = 125

64,000/125 = 512

20d6 damage....x by 512 for 10,240d6 damage

Reflex save for half anyone?

By your logic of reasoning, you wouldn't be able to make a reflex save simply because there's nowhere to dodge TO.

Those poor, poor, pitiful catgirls...

[nerulean]

If you're going to be fighting anything big and slow, Wraithstrike is pretty damn impressive. Swift action to hit touch for a round? Yes please.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

It would help if coup-de-grace were interruptible.
What? You mean like it provokes an AoO so your pals could disarm or knock out the orc with the axe when he tries? Well, Delivering a coup de grace does provoke an AoO.

Also, it's a full round action, so the orc has to be within a 5-ft. step to do this. Appropriate positioning on the battlefield can help prevent the orc from having a clear ability to do that.

This is one of the reasons adventurers form parties. So they always have a buddy to watch their back.

[bugsysservant]

If you're going to be fighting anything big and slow, Wraithstrike is pretty damn impressive. Swift action to hit touch for a round? Yes please.

This justs seems like a higher level variation on truestrike. Essentially you are giving up your own action to allow for a greater chance for someone else to hit. An overall better use of your turn IMO is to just use a damage spell. Also, find the gap tends to work better, as it is the same level, but has a much better duration at the cost of only slightly worse performance.

[martyboy74]

This justs seems like a higher level variation on truestrike. Essentially you are giving up your own action to allow for a greater chance for someone else to hit. An overall better use of your turn IMO is to just use a damage spell. Also, find the gap tends to work better, as it is the same level, but has a much better duration at the cost of only slightly worse performance.

Truestrike takes a standard action to cast, and only helps one attack. Wraithstrike only takes a swift action to cast, and helps all of the attacks for the rest of the round. The bonuses they give are both essentially auto-hits.

Also, Wraithstrike is persistable. :smallbiggrin:



I'd like to toss Anyspell and Greater Anyspell (SpC) in for consideration.

[bugsysservant]

I missed the immediate casting time, which does greatly improve Wraithstrike. Still, I would hardly call it the most broken spell in the game.