Hunter help

[Iceheart2112]

I've got a game coming up in a few weeks and I'm building a hunter for it. Stat generation is +7 pre-racial mods (but a +4 equals a +5; so the stat array could look like 14 14 16 10 10 10 or 18 12 12 10 10 10, etc...mix and match at your leisure) and we're starting at level one. I'm going for an archer hunter build and race is human. I'd like some help with spell selection and animal companion tricks, plus any ideas and help in general. What I've got so far is this:

Str 13
Dex 19 (17, +2 racial)
Con 11
Wis 17
Int 11
Cha 11

Feats: Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot
Traits: Reckless (+1 acrobatics, class skill), Blood of Dragons (low-light vision)
Spells: 0-Know Direction, Spark
1-Summon Nature's Ally, Gravity Bow, Magic Fang
Skills: Acrobatic +9, Handle Animal +4(+8), Knowledge (Geography) +4, Knowledge (Nature) +4, Perception +7, Survival +7, Stealth +8

Companion: Big Cat
Tricks: Attack (2), Defend, Heel, Track, and 2 of the following from skirmisher hunter tricks - Aiding Attack, Chameleon Step, Tangling Attack
Feats: Power Attack
Skills: Stealth +7, Survival +3

Thanks!

[Florian]

Archer Hunter is inferior to Melee Hunter in any ways because you simply can´t capitalize on sharing Teamwork Feats with your Animal Companion. Why do you want to go that route?

[Psyren]

^ However, you can (and I would say you should) dump the Teamwork stuff for a domain via the Divine Hunter (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/hunter/archetypes/paizo---hunter-archetypes/divine-hunter) archetype. This makes your companion stronger, and also adds the domain spells up to 6th-level to your spells known for free.

[Geddy2112]

Second that melee hunter>ranged hunter, and that if you do drop teamwork for domain spells. Teamwork feats are really strong if you ride your companion, and decent if you have an inquisitor or caviler in the party.

Since you have acrobatics as a class skill(and you probably will anyways) get 3 ranks ASAP so you get a poor mans combat expertise without the feat.

Drop know direction-since you are trained in survival you can do this automatically, and you have knowledge geography. Spark is alright but there are far better. Create water and detect magic are probably the two best cantrips. Your 1st level spells and tricks are fine.

[Psyren]

I think a ranged divine hunter can be a stronger choice than a melee normal hunter. Archery is very strong in PF, and being able to do it while flying around on a celestial griffon or something is even better. And when you factor in the utility gained from domains like Liberation, Tactics, Luck, Feather, or Ambush - they bring a lot to the table.

[Ssalarn]

There are some okay Teamwork feats for archer Hunters. I sketched out a few mid-op Hunter builds back when the class first came out, and this (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rh77?Hunter-Builds#18) was what I came up with for a basic archery build.

[Iceheart2112]

I really am liking the divine hunter archetype. The teamwork feats that worked for this kind of build weren't really catching my eye so thanks a lot for pointing it out! Are my stats good for this kind of build? Should I get more strength or just work with feats, items, and spells?

[Geddy2112]

Stats are perfect considering your stat buy system. More strength would net you an extra damage per shot, but dex and wis affect so much more there is no need to reduce them for some extra oomph. You will have magic to buff yourself into next week. You can always get a belt or put an advancement point into strength if you find it lacking, but with a +1 you should be fine.
You need to grab deadly aim as your 3rd level feat, and clustered shots at higher levels. Then feats are more or less open.

Entangle and longstrider are good first level spells, the latter less so if you have a mount. I am partial to liberating command since you can swift action a character out of a grapple.

[Psyren]

11 Con is kinda weak (shoot for at least 12). If you're going for an archer you don't need 13 Str - even numbers are better since your Animal Focus will be adding even numbers as well, so I'd go down to 12 or even 10 here. I think 17 Wis is also excessive, I'd stop at 16. 17/19 Dex is fine. I'd say you should actually aim for 13 Cha so you can pick up Evolved Companion. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/evolved-companion)

I couldn't really grok your point buy method (it's early here, no coffee yet) but you should be able to shuffle things around to hit those targets.

[Iceheart2112]

So how the stat buy works is that your total pre-racial modifiers add up to +7. A 16 and 17 are the same because the modifier is still a +3. But if I went to an 18 (or 19) it would count as a +5 instead of the +4.

I'm somewhat torn between swapping the strength for charisma. Handle Animal and wild empathy are in a hunter's milieu, plus just being able to 'talk better' even if is just a little bit helps.

[Florian]

(it's early here, no coffee yet)

*Hands over a freshly ground cup of sicilian mocca left over from my breakfast* Enjoy!
(I´m right back from my garden and could also offer a fresh Bellini - But I fear both would have grown stale and cold once they reach you)

You´re right. The overall attribute allocation makes next to no sensate all.

A Hunter is no spellcasting class. It also lacks any means to incorporate Spellcasting with other actions, unlike a, say, Ranger has with Instant Enemy. It doesn´t make sense to start with a WIS of 12 or higher i this department, because there is no actual gain. 13 if you count the Expanded Studies feat into it.

Archery is always a two attribute thing. Pushing to hit is always easier than pushing damage, so attribute allocation should favor STR over DEX here.

[Psyren]

*Hands over a freshly ground cup of sicilian mocca left over from my breakfast* Enjoy!
(I´m right back from my garden and could also offer a fresh Bellini - But I fear both would have grown stale and cold once they reach you)

I have pre-packaged coffee from the office percolator. Which... now sounds distinctly lacking compared to the delights you're displaying :smallfrown:


So how the stat buy works is that your total pre-racial modifiers add up to +7. A 16 and 17 are the same because the modifier is still a +3. But if I went to an 18 (or 19) it would count as a +5 instead of the +4.

I'm somewhat torn between swapping the strength for charisma. Handle Animal and wild empathy are in a hunter's milieu, plus just being able to 'talk better' even if is just a little bit helps.

I think I understand now - it seems designed to keep you from going for an 18 before racials by making that more expensive. So would this work?

Str 11: +0
Dex 17: +3 (racial - 19)
Con 13: +1
Int 11: +0
Wis 15: +2
Cha 13: +1

Total pre-racial mods: +7

All stat increases to Dex except for level 16 - that one goes to Wis, just in time for you to get 6th-level spells.

I personally hate odd numbers but if you have no purchase penalty for doing so, no reason to have a lower number. At the very least it will give poison or other penalties a bit of a buffer.

You would want either a Str item or an animal focus in Str for a composite bow and more damage.



You´re right. The overall attribute allocation makes next to no sensate all.

A Hunter is no spellcasting class. It also lacks any means to incorporate Spellcasting with other actions, unlike a, say, Ranger has with Instant Enemy. It doesn´t make sense to start with a WIS of 12 or higher i this department, because there is no actual gain. 13 if you count the Expanded Studies feat into it.

Archery is always a two attribute thing. Pushing to hit is always easier than pushing damage, so attribute allocation should favor STR over DEX here.

I would advise against starting lower than 14 Wis actually - putting aside the handy bonus 2nd-level spell slot he'd be giving up (which stays relevant for at least 5 levels if not longer), Hunters also have a weak will save. If the enemy dominates one, that's a two-character swing for the enemy forces - the Hunter and their companion - and could easily result in a wipe.

[Florian]

I have pre-packaged coffee from the office percolator. Which... now sounds distinctly lacking compared to the delights you're displaying

I´m the owner of a small experimental beer and whiskey production facility. We also deal with good fruit, cereal and coffee at certain points, so feel free and give me a PM when you´re in the general area and want to upgrade your experience as well as get wasted.


I would advise against starting lower than 14 Wis actually - putting aside the handy bonus 2nd-level spell slot he'd be giving up (which stays relevant for at least 5 levels if not longer), Hunters also have a weak will save. If the enemy dominates one, that's a two-character swing for the enemy forces - the Hunter and their companion - and could easily result in a wipe.

Ok, you got me confused on that issue. What spells?

[Psyren]

If I'm ever in Germany you'll be the first person I call :smallsmile:



Ok, you got me confused on that issue. What spells?

14+ Wis gets him a bonus 2nd-level spell per day from the moment he gains access. This is obviously most useful during the levels at which 2nd-level spells are the peak of his power (4-6), but even past that when he only has a handful of 3rd-level spells per day (7-9), an extra 2nd can go a long way.

As for what spells might be handy, lots - another casting of Barkskin for instance amounts to an extra hour of protection (which you can share with your companion, or slap onto the tank), and same with Protection From Energy. Both buffs stay useful for quite a long time. Protective Spirit allows you to keep firing safely even while in melee, or move about the battlefield with impunity - your Dex should be high enough to make the most of it. Arrow Eruption gives you a great no-save AoE attack that scales with gear.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Psyren
I couldn't really grok your point buy method (it's early here, no coffee yet)....

Even with coffee I couldn't make sense of it either, if that helps any.


Originally Posted by Psyren
I have pre-packaged coffee from the office percolator.

Yeah, but it's free. :smalltongue:


Originally Posted by Psyren
I think a ranged divine hunter can be a stronger choice than a melee normal hunter.

So, what feats would you recommend for this concept?

[Psyren]

So, what feats would you recommend for this concept?

Archery feats will take up most of your allotment - Point Blank Shot, Imp. Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Manyshot, Deadly Aim etc. There are also Hunter-specific ones like Evolved Companion and Extended Animal Focus.

Also, since you have the domain class feature now, you get access to War Blessing, which gives you both of the warpriest blessings tied to your domain. Some of these are pretty nice, like War to go with Tactics or Animal to go with Feather (SNA9!)

[Barstro]

.
Ok, you got me confused on that issue. What spells?

"A hunter casts divine spells drawn from the druid and ranger spell lists."

[Florian]

"A hunter casts divine spells drawn from the druid and ranger spell lists."

Not the thing that I was actually confused about in regard to that topic.

Either you go the buff and cureative route, needing no DC and profiting more by owning pearls of power for repeat castings than anything.

Or you engage whole hog, Divine Hunter and all that, by wielding a Dazzling Rod and spamming Fireball or Lightning Storm.

The class itself simply leaves no place for a middle ground here if PB is used.

I thought Psyren maybe had something specific in mind when I asked the question. (Like, you know, the Divine Hunter using a conductive weapon and needing WIS for a domain power)

[Barstro]

Not the thing that I was actually confused about in regard to that topic.

Either you go the buff and cureative route, needing no DC and profiting more by owning pearls of power for repeat castings than anything.

Or you engage whole hog, Divine Hunter and all that, by wielding a Dazzling Rod and spamming Fireball or Lightning Storm.

The class itself simply leaves no place for a middle ground here if PB is used.

I thought Psyren maybe had something specific in mind when I asked the question. (Like, you know, the Divine Hunter using a conductive weapon and needing WIS for a domain power)

Oh, the difference between "what" (if any) and "which" (specific) spells. Given your statement that Wis was not needed and "A Hunter is no spellcasting class", I hope you can understand my misunderstanding.

[Psyren]

I thought Psyren maybe had something specific in mind when I asked the question.

More spells are good. Decent Wis on a low-will class is good. I didn't think I needed more rationale for 14+ Wis than that. :smalltongue: