New products to be revealed on June 1st

[EvanescentHero]

Update: Two new books have been announced for release this year!

Storm King's Thunder: (http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/storm-kings-thunder) A new giant-themed adventure path that also seems to involve rune magic.

Volo's Guide to Monsters: (http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/volos-guide-to-monsters) A sourcebook full of monsters and lore. Playable monster races have also been confirmed!



Tweeted by Nathan Stewart, and retweeted by Mike Mearls:


9 days until we unveil the Fall story & products. @Wizards_DnD @ChrisPerkinsDnD @mikemearls #DnDMeltdown https://t.co/lJwIQV4tbi

https://twitter.com/NathanBStewart/status/734773949284921344?s=09

[pwykersotz]

Hooray!

(Desperately hopes that digital products will be one of those things, even as certainty sets in that it won't be)

[RulesJD]

Didn't they already confirm that Giants is the next storyline?

[Hrugner]

I'm hoping for Planescape. Planescape Faction based backgrounds and archetypes could be really cool and Planescape itself is necessary for high end game support. Or some sort of more structured cosmology.

Darksun would be bitchin too, but it can wait a bit.

[MrFahrenheit]

MM2 for higher CR mooks/non-bosses is my hope...

[Regitnui]

Since nobody's said it; Eberron Explorer's Handbook! They've been hinting at it since the PHB dropped.

[Mordrigar]

What I wish for:

PHB 2 (new classes including psionics, new backgrounds, feats and spells and psionic powers)
Planescape related content

[Clistenes]

You know what would be nice? If they released some content about how to convert the 2nd, 3rd and 3.5 and 4th sourcebooks to 5th edition. I don't think they are going to remake all the guides for all the countries and cultures and races and religions and stuff, and I still want to use some of those stuff, but as a player, I depend on the DM having time/wishing to do the conversions for his game, which isn't always quick, easy or intuitive.

Somebody mentioned Eberron and Planescape. Those two, for example, are a pain in the ass to convert to 5th edition.

[DanyBallon]

You know what would be nice? If they released some content about how to convert the 2nd, 3rd and 3.5 and 4th sourcebooks to 5th edition. I don't think they are going to remake all the guides for all the countries and cultures and races and religions and stuff, and I still want to use some of those stuff, but as a player, I depend on the DM having time/wishing to do the conversions for his game, which isn't always quick, easy or intuitive.


It's a bit short, but they already released such a document
D&D conversion guide (http://media.wizards.com/2016/downloads/DND/DnD_Conversions.pdf)

As far as I'm concercened I'm looking forward to that rumored Giant adventure. It'll also mean that except for Slavers, they'll have covered most of the major 1e adventures and will be able to move to other settings:smallwink:

[mgshamster]

I'm hoping for Planescape. Planescape Faction based backgrounds and archetypes could be really cool and Planescape itself is necessary for high end game support. Or some sort of more structured cosmology.

Darksun would be bitchin too, but it can wait a bit.

None of the play test material has been towards this, so as much as I'd like to see it, I doubt it.

My bets are on Eberon or Dark Sun.

There is a rather nice homebrew for a Planescape 5e (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0Z7ZsrO9VLBVUtITGRDeWw4a28/view?usp=sharing) that you may be interested in.

[Foxhound438]

i'm hoping for psions and a fixed version of the ambuscade ranger, as well as some more feats to support monks and other martial builds that can't really enjoy GWM and SS.

[DanyBallon]

i'm hoping for psions and a fixed version of the ambuscade ranger, as well as some more feats to support monks and other martial builds that can't really enjoy GWM and SS.

I don't think that there will be an upgrade version of the ambuscade as they already integrated part of it in the deep stalker archetype, and the new feature is much more balanced.

[Nicrosil]

I hate to be a cynic, but it's probably just the new adventure path and some accessory stuff for it, like a DM's screen or a board game.

[DanyBallon]

I hate to be a cynic, but it's probably just the new adventure path and some accessory stuff for it, like a DM's screen or a board game.

It's not being cynic, as it's the marketing plan of WotC for 5e :smallwink:

[comk59]

It's a real tossup.

Forgive my ignorance, but isn't Darksun where a lot of Psionic stuff comes from? Or is that the one with the dino-riding halflings?

[Hrugner]

It's a real tossup.

Forgive my ignorance, but isn't Darksun where a lot of Psionic stuff comes from? Or is that the one with the dino-riding halflings?

psionics and cannibal halflings. Also playable Thrikreen and half dwarves and casters who despoil the land to create their spells. Also dragon kings if I remember.

[Foxhound438]

I don't think that there will be an upgrade version of the ambuscade as they already integrated part of it in the deep stalker archetype, and the new feature is much more balanced.

that's not official print though. Moreover, ambuscade isn't the thing I liked about that ranger, the spirit companion is.

[Hrugner]

None of the play test material has been towards this, so as much as I'd like to see it, I doubt it.

My bets are on Eberon or Dark Sun.

There is a rather nice homebrew for a Planescape 5e (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0Z7ZsrO9VLBVUtITGRDeWw4a28/view?usp=sharing) that you may be interested in.

You need psionics for either Dark Sun or Planescape. Darksun cause it's everywhere and Planescape since mindflayers and gith are psychic and important to the planes in general. I agree thought that we've seen far more for Eberron.

[mgshamster]

You need psionics for either Dark Sun or Planescape. Darksun cause it's everywhere and Planescape since mindflayers and gith are psychic and important to the planes in general. I agree thought that we've seen far more for Eberron.

Mindflayers and gith (zeria and yanki) are both in the monster manual already. So psionics isn't needed for Planescape.

[BrianDavion]

It's not being cynic, as it's the marketing plan of WotC for 5e :smallwink:


Yeah I'm really REALLY dissapointed with the post core rule book offerings from WOTC thus far. the sword coast adventuerer's book is alright, but I'd kill for a proper FRCS. I'm more intreasted, as a DM in telling my own stories rather then paying outy for pre-made adventuers. especially as canned adventures are such a crap shoot as to weather or not they'll be any good

[Kite474]

It's not being cynic, as it's the marketing plan of WotC for 5e :smallwink:

Maybe this time it will be different? *sigh* Who am I kidding? We arent even gonna get Psionics until 6 years in huh?

[DanyBallon]

I don't mind a slow release schedule, as I was one of those who quit roleplaying (D&D and Pathfinder) because of the over abundance of weak options they released just to grab my money.

I prefer a slow and steady product release, focusing on adventures. This way I get plenty of gaming material that I can adapt to my game world.

[Quintessence]

With all of the Eberron UA stuff, I would be shocked if we don't finally get a book for it.

[Corran]

I do hope it is not another campaign book, but something that will give us new options to play with. New feats would be good to have.

[Clistenes]

It's a bit short, but they already released such a document
D&D conversion guide (http://media.wizards.com/2016/downloads/DND/DnD_Conversions.pdf)

Yes, but as I said, it is slow as hell, and some stuff you just have remake completly. How do you convert Duke Rowan Darkwood, Factol of the Takers, for example? Or the Mythal creation rules? Or the Red Wizards' Circle Magic? Or a Nar Demombinder? Or the vampire Manshoon? You have to make the stuff up from the scratch... I may not use 99 % of that stuff, but it makes me sad that it's out of canon 5th edition.

[mgshamster]

Yes, but as I said, it is slow as hell, and some stuff you just have remake completly. How do you convert Duke Rowan Darkwood, Factol of the Takers, for example? Or the Mythal creation rules? Or the Red Wizards' Circle Magic? Or a Nar Demombinder? Or the vampire Manshoon? You have to make the stuff up from the scratch... I may not use 99 % of that stuff, but it makes me sad that it's out of canon 5th edition.

I've already converted The Great Modron March (conversion guide available for free, see my sig). Working on Dead Gods now.

Converting over NPCs with dual class or multiclass isn't as hard as it seems. Since they're an NPC, you don't have to worry about class levels - just set a CR and give them appropriate HP, AC, and stats. CR determined proficiency bonus. Then give them whatever abilities you want that makes them feel as if they had the abilities of all their combined classes.

Want a thief/priest? Give him backstab, the ability to disengage (et al) as a bonus action, relevant skill proficiencies, and make him a spellcaster of some level using cleric spells and wisdom.

[DizzyWood]

I've already converted The Great Modron March (conversion guide available for free, see my sig). Working on Dead Gods now.

Converting over NPCs with dual class or multiclass isn't as hard as it seems. Since they're an NPC, you don't have to worry about class levels - just set a CR and give them appropriate HP, AC, and stats. CR determined proficiency bonus. Then give them whatever abilities you want that makes them feel as if they had the abilities of all their combined classes.

Want a thief/priest? Give him backstab, the ability to disengage (et al) as a bonus action, relevant skill proficiencies, and make him a spellcaster of some level using cleric spells and wisdom.

I do not "DO" conversions myself but it seems really simple (for NPCs) the few times I have looked at it. I really do not get all of the demand for a conversion guide. Your description of how to do it was my instinct from the beginning before I even hopped on a message board.

Monsters look WAY f*ing harder if we do not already have them in the MM though so I get that.

Maybe I do not get it.

[Belac93]

A couple of things. I don't know if they have relevance, but I would like to point them out.

1) Athas had giants, so what's to say an against the giants adventure wouldn't be set in Athas? I think that would be really neat.
2) They said Story and products. Not sure if that's relevant, but I sure hope it is!

[Joe the Rat]

Mindflayers and gith (zeria and yanki) are both in the monster manual already. So psionics isn't needed for Planescape.
No, but if you wanted to, say, add Githzerai as a player race, it would be nice to have a class that connects to their abilities. Not necessary, but nice.

If they have Psionics near ready, then Dark Sun, Planescape, or Spelljammer could be on the horizon. When someone is playing a Psion of some kind during Extra Life, then you know something is coming soon.

My plan would be to introduce a Gith Incursion storyline as a preamble to releasing new settings. Or a Planes / Wildspace supplement with Incursion as the accompanying storyline. Opening new worlds (literally!), as well as a story-provided means to move characters around. And the AL award certificate to let you create a new character with an off-world supplement.

[Regitnui]

If they have Psionics near ready, then Dark Sun, Planescape, or Spelljammer could be on the horizon. When someone is playing a Psion of some kind during Extra Life, then you know something is coming soon.

But Eberron will be the perfect trial run for the finalized mechanics; it involves psionics with Dal Quor and the associated monsters (quori) and races (Kalashtar and the Inspired). Most importantly, if the 5e psionics are unbalanced, they can be completely left our of Eberron without ruining the setting! So; Eberron first, then Dark Sun/Other psionics setting.

[DanyBallon]

But Eberron will be the perfect trial run for the finalized mechanics; it involves psionics with Dal Quor and the associated monsters (quori) and races (Kalashtar and the Inspired). Most importantly, if the 5e psionics are unbalanced, they can be completely left our of Eberron without ruining the setting! So; Eberron first, then Dark Sun/Other psionics setting.

While I prefer Dark Sun over Eberron, I believe that Eberron might see a 5e release way before Darksun as it is a pure product of WotC and have a larger fan base that are more likely to be playing 5e. Also, like you've said, the setting do not rely heavily on psionic, so it can be easier to implement.

[Oramac]

I may be the only one, but at this point, all I want is to get the **** out of the Underdark and Strahd.

Is it too much to ask for a damn beach? Or a forest? Or a mountain?

[DanyBallon]

I may be the only one, but at this point, all I want is to get the **** out of the Underdark and Strahd.

Is it too much to ask for a damn beach? Or a forest? Or a mountain?

Try HotDQ and RoT, you'll get plenty of travel through different area :smallwink:

[DracoKnight]

I may be the only one, but at this point, all I want is to get the **** out of the Underdark and Strahd.

Is it too much to ask for a damn beach? Or a forest? Or a mountain?

{sarcasm}But then you'd be in the sunlight, so Drow would be gimped. All of the Drizzt clones would suck, and it would go from the best character build to the worst. And obviously the Drow ranger with a panther WAS the best option, I mean, why else would a Gary Stu be that particular race/class combination? Obviously it's the ultimate combo for success!{sarcasm}


Sorry - I hate Drizzt, and one of my players recently threatened to make a Dirzzt clone if I kill of their character. :smalltongue:

In all seriousness, though, I would love to see Eberron! :smallsmile:

[Oramac]

Try HotDQ and RoT, you'll get plenty of travel through different area :smallwink:

Good call. I should specify that I was speaking in reference to Adventure League, which is currently in Strahd, and was in the Underdark before that.

[DanyBallon]

Good call. I should specify that I was speaking in reference to Adventure League, which is currently in Strahd, and was in the Underdark before that.

Ah ok :smallbiggrin:
I don't play in AL games so I didn't get that you were refering to it :smallsmile:

If the rumors are true, then the Giant theme story coming up next will get you to the sky :smallwink:

[TentacleSurpris]

Didn't they already confirm that Giants is the next storyline?

Giants were not "confirmed". It was tossed around as an idea a few years back in a panel at a convention. Everything changes in development. Players need to not interpret every statement at a convention as promises and confirmation.

MTG players know that Wizards changes their minds like they change underwear (every three months).

[DanyBallon]

Giants were not "confirmed". It was tossed around as an idea a few years back in a panel at a convention. Everything changes in development. Players need to not interpret every statement at a convention as promises and confirmation.

MTG players know that Wizards changes their minds like they change underwear (every three months).

Not comfirmed, but there's some info that tend to confirm it (it's as solid as iPhone 7 rumors :smalltongue:)


Here's a link to some of those rumors (http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?3414-Is-STORM-KING-S-THUNDER-The-Next-D-D-Storyline)

[DizzyWood]

MTG players know that Wizards changes their minds like they change underwear (every three months).

Ewwwwwwwwwww!!!!!! :smallfurious:

Funny doe

[Regitnui]

MTG players know that Wizards changes their minds like they change underwear (every three months).

Yep. They often regret designing cards about 3 months later; right about the time the competitive players find a new way to break the game...

[Oramac]

Yep. They often regret designing cards about 3 months later; right about the time the competitive players find a new way to break the game...

Easy solution: hire said competitive players to find ways to break it (and therefore balance it) before they release new material.

[Regitnui]

Easy solution: hire said competitive players to find ways to break it (and therefore balance it) before they release new material.

What, out of a community of millions? Can't explore every possible option before release.

[Oramac]

What, out of a community of millions? Can't explore every possible option before release.

True enough. But unlike an MMO, the table top has a finite number of combinations that can be feasibly put together. Presumably they can test most of them before they release content. (though of course the number goes up every time new content is released)

[Regitnui]

True enough. But unlike an MMO, the table top has a finite number of combinations that can be feasibly put together. Presumably they can test most of them before they release content. (though of course the number goes up every time new content is released)

That's the main problem. They can balance the set against itself and the most recent sets, but other formats allow the inconspicuous cards from other sets to react with the new ones; fssssss...

[Socratov]

That's the main problem. They can balance the set against itself and the most recent sets, but other formats allow the inconspicuous cards from other sets to react with the new ones; fssssss...

having said that, hiring 5 people for every format to balance the new cards out to their specific format makes for 'hiring' about 50 people worldwide to take a good look at it. And that format being their hobby for quite some time (and of course you will hire the better players in that format out there) they will know certain combinations that make that format more or less powerful.

Not that hard, doable over a couple of weekends (leaving the weeks free for people to work for their cardboard crack habit) and the best part is: make it a couple of events with special prices (like nice promocards or some nice doodad) and you don't even need to hire the peopleanyway. Call the events 'Previews' and you might make a bit more money out of it as well.

Edit:

or, if you are going to spoiler the cards for the set anyway, do a teaser publication of about 50% of the cards, and promise prices to those who find an exploit. First to report the exloit gets the prize (again, promocards ftw, or maybe some alternate art version of the card to really get hte MTG players drooling). 3 teasers with varying level of known cards in the coming set and you'll have a balanced set in no time.

[Joe the Rat]

I may be the only one, but at this point, all I want is to get the **** out of the Underdark and Strahd.

Is it too much to ask for a damn beach? Or a forest? Or a mountain?
Could go Undermountain... :smallbiggrin:

[Gwendol]

I'm betting on the giants.

[NewDM]

I'm hoping it will be the 5.5E announcement where they fix all of the problems people have found with the game and add a tactical supplement.

[EvanescentHero]

On a different note, Mike Mearls had this to say about progress on the UA variant ranger:


It's slowly percolating in the background. You'll see something before year's end. https://t.co/8i62hUh3M6

https://twitter.com/mikemearls/status/735514945391972352?s=09

[Regitnui]

I'm hoping it will be the 5.5E announcement where they fix all of the problems people have found with the game and add a tactical supplement.

What problems? You mean the reliance on DMing, modular rules and fun? :smalltongue:

Seriously, though. You're the only person I've spoken to who thinks 5e is bad enough to need rebuilding rather than fine tuning. Any new products are likely to be more content than a scrapping of everything.

[Clistenes]

I'm hoping it will be the 5.5E announcement where they fix all of the problems people have found with the game and add a tactical supplement.

What problems? You mean the reliance on DMing, modular rules and fun? :smalltongue:

Seriously, though. You're the only person I've spoken to who thinks 5e is bad enough to need rebuilding rather than fine tuning. Any new products are likely to be more content than a scrapping of everything.

5e basic chasis works very well. All they need is to fill some gaps and holes and add some shiny stuff to make it more appetizing.


I've already converted The Great Modron March (conversion guide available for free, see my sig). Working on Dead Gods now.

Converting over NPCs with dual class or multiclass isn't as hard as it seems. Since they're an NPC, you don't have to worry about class levels - just set a CR and give them appropriate HP, AC, and stats. CR determined proficiency bonus. Then give them whatever abilities you want that makes them feel as if they had the abilities of all their combined classes.

Want a thief/priest? Give him backstab, the ability to disengage (et al) as a bonus action, relevant skill proficiencies, and make him a spellcaster of some level using cleric spells and wisdom.

You still depend on the DM wishing to do all that work. And not everybody is going to be as good doing the conversions. I wish they could just give or sell supplements with the new stats for the stuff from previous editions...

Of course, that wouldn't give them any money. People would seek their old books and use them instead of buying new ones, so I don't expect them to do anything like that...

But it doesn't seem like they will release huge Greyhawk/Forgotten Realms/Dragonlance/Dark Sun/Eberron/Planescape/Spelljammer settings guides anymore, so our only option is to do our own homebrewed conversions, I'm afraid.

[JumboWheat01]

5e basic chasis works very well. All they need is to fill some gaps and holes and add some shiny stuff to make it more appetizing.

I make sure never to eat shiny stuff, no matter how appetizing. Always leads to stomach aches.


Still hoping for some nice Ebberon stuff myself. I've really gotten into the whole magi-steampunk thing it's got going on.

[DanyBallon]

5e basic chasis works very well. All they need is to fill some gaps and holes and add some shiny stuff to make it more appetizing.

Filling some holes, is not a complete overhaul like NewDM wants.

While some may complain that there releases are few and far in between, at least we are not seeing a proliferation of crappy unbalanced stuff coming out month after months like we've seen for the last 15 years.

[Clistenes]

Filling some holes, is not a complete overhaul like NewDM wants.

While some may complain that there releases are few and far in between, at least we are not seeing a proliferation of crappy unbalanced stuff coming out month after months like we've seen for the last 15 years.

I wasn't thinking about new rules, but mostly of fluff, of fleshing out the worlds under the 5th rules. A few new monsters and magical items sprinkled around would be nice, but that's not what I desire most.


I make sure never to eat shiny stuff, no matter how appetizing. Always leads to stomach aches.

That's because you are an stupid, weak human. I always devour my enemies with all their shiny stuff. It makes them crunchier.

[Regitnui]

The SCAG was a great example of a setting book for 5e. Though as far as I can see in my web searches, Keith Baker would not be involved in Eberron 5e. Or if he is, he's keeping mum about it. I'm also going to be unpopular here and say we don't need fifteen sourcebooks for a setting anymore; it's all been published and is available via a combination of the DMsG store and creative web searching. Don't reprint a timeline of the Last War when the 3.5 book "The Forge of War" still does that.

Of course, if they do announce an Eberron Explorer's Handbook, I'll have to scour the internet high and low for the first scans, because no way will I be patient enough for my physical copy to arrive.

[Gastronomie]

I'm also going to be unpopular here and say we don't need fifteen sourcebooks for a setting anymore; it's all been published and is available via a combination of the DMsG store and creative web searching. Don't reprint a timeline of the Last War when the 3.5 book "The Forge of War" still does that.This is probably what WotC is afraid of. If a new setting book is basically the same as that of an old edition, old players won't buy it, meaning they can't gain much profit from it.

[Steampunkette]

I am filled with excite.

Gimme more content to DEVOUR!

[Regitnui]

This is probably what WotC is afraid of. If a new setting book is basically the same as that of an old edition, old players won't buy it, meaning they can't gain much profit from it.

There's got to be a balance of setting information; enough that new players know what they're playing with, but not so much that the veterans feel it's repetitive. Eberron is especially vulnerable to this, because unlike FR, it has a fixed starting point. The books are always 998YK, two years after the Last War. Campaigns can run before or after this time, but the default time is always the same.

Aside: On the other hand, this also makes it so that Eberron players don't have a Spellplague twisting their setting's lore to fit 4e's different mechanics in like a square peg.

The SCAG did a good job with that balance, I feel. I never read Forgotten Realms material before, and I feel the SCAG gave me enough information that I can go tackle the more in-depth 3.5 stuff and start fitting it to a cohesive whole. Still prefer Eberron, though. It gives a lot more leeway for creative storytelling when you can ignore the alignment of monsters; a white dragon might always be dim (by dragon standards), but they aren't all especially cunning snow beasts with a breath weapon. The intelligent races get as much charm and personality as the playable races; druidic orcs, jungle tribe drow, philosopher-knight oni, etc.

[Senjou]

I truly wish for a new Dragonlance setting...

[Regitnui]

I truly wish for a new Dragonlance setting...

Will they take kender out of it in favour of halflings?

[Arkhios]

There's got to be a balance of setting information; enough that new players know what they're playing with, but not so much that the veterans feel it's repetitive. Eberron is especially vulnerable to this, because unlike FR, it has a fixed starting point. The books are always 998YK, two years after the Last War. Campaigns can run before or after this time, but the default time is always the same.

Aside: On the other hand, this also makes it so that Eberron players don't have a Spellplague twisting their setting's lore to fit 4e's different mechanics in like a square peg.

The SCAG did a good job with that balance, I feel. I never read Forgotten Realms material before, and I feel the SCAG gave me enough information that I can go tackle the more in-depth 3.5 stuff and start fitting it to a cohesive whole. Still prefer Eberron, though. It gives a lot more leeway for creative storytelling when you can ignore the alignment of monsters; a white dragon might always be dim (by dragon standards), but they aren't all especially cunning snow beasts with a breath weapon. The intelligent races get as much charm and personality as the playable races; druidic orcs, jungle tribe drow, philosopher-knight oni, etc.

I could see an Eberron Player Companion being along the lines of what we already have for Elemental Evil. Only the necessary rules-crunch would need an update (races, classes, and/or subclasses, plus a handful of possible new spells and items), nothing from the lore has to change. I don't see there's a reason to publish a hardcover book; a booklet would be enough.

[TentacleSurpris]

On a different note, Mike Mearls had this to say about progress on the UA variant ranger:



https://twitter.com/mikemearls/status/735514945391972352?s=09

Wow, 24 MONTHS to mock up a 20 level playtest version of one single class. Or maybe it's 24 months to get a finished product out for one single class. I interpret it as the former. That's slow...

Seriously, what do Mike Mearls and Jeremy E Crawford do for jobs? I'd like to be lead designer for DND. I get to write one UA article per month (or 3/4 months, as I sometimes just point to dmsguild), outsource all the products, license some t-shirts, and browse twitter the rest of the week.

Edit: there are people in the corporate world whose only job is justifying their job to a CEO.

[krugaan]

Wow, 24 MONTHS to mock up a 20 level playtest version of one single class. Or maybe it's 24 months to get a finished product out for one single class. I interpret it as the former. That's slow...

Seriously, what do Mike Mearls and Jeremy E Crawford do for jobs? I'd like to be lead designer for DND. I get to write one UA article per month (or 3/4 months, as I sometimes just point to dmsguild), outsource all the products, license some t-shirts, and browse twitter the rest of the week.

Edit: there are people in the corporate world whose only job is justifying their job to a CEO.

Dude ... playtesting.

[Regitnui]

Dude ... playtesting.

How long does it take to go from levels 1-20? Couple of months of play time, assuming they're only play testing for their entire 9 hour shift? I think it's entirely possible to take this long if they want to be sure.

[krugaan]

How long does it take to go from levels 1-20? Couple of months of play time, assuming they're only play testing for their entire 9 hour shift?

Hmmm ... lets say one "play session" lasts about 4 hours, about, what, 3 sessions per level, maybe?

20 levels x 3 sessions x 4 hours = 120 manhours / 9 = 13.33 days

Now, that's assuming they have full time playtesters, which I have no idea about, but kinda doubt. They probably have some interns or volunteers who do part time, so, probably, realistically, about a month to playtest a full level.

edit: I'm totally guessing how much staff they have, but I'm willing to bet the actual design team for DnD 5e is *pretty small*.

[TentacleSurpris]

Hmmm ... lets say one "play session" lasts about 4 hours, about, what, 3 sessions per level, maybe?

20 levels x 3 sessions x 4 hours = 120 manhours / 9 = 13.33 days

Now, that's assuming they have full time playtesters, which I have no idea about, but kinda doubt. They probably have some interns or volunteers who do part time, so, probably, realistically, about a month to playtest a full level.

Actually, Jeremy and Mike do not playtest. They have volunteers to do that. Source: the list of playtesters from the SCAG and other books. Mike and Jeremy are listed as designers in the SCAG, as two among ten. The book is only 130 pages, divided by 10 people, that's 13 pages of writing per person. And that's the only sourcebook they've done so far. So my curiousity is not satisfied. What do the lead designers of DND do all day? It isnt' writing books, that's for sure.

[Regitnui]

Hmmm ... lets say one "play session" lasts about 4 hours, about, what, 3 sessions per level, maybe?

20 levels x 3 sessions x 4 hours = 120 manhours / 9 = 13.33 days

Now, that's assuming they have full time playtesters, which I have no idea about, but kinda doubt. They probably have some interns or volunteers who do part time, so, probably, realistically, about a month to playtest a full level.

edit: I'm totally guessing how much staff they have, but I'm willing to bet the actual design team for DnD 5e is *pretty small*.

And there's also 10 other classes with 2-5 subclasses apiece that the "fixed" ranger has to be balanced against. So multiple 1-20 tests, ensuring no possible combination of classes and feats could break bounded accuracy and make the game unfun. I think giving someone a year is putting it on the tight side. Especially considering this isn't new content, but a rules patch on a perfectly fine, if unintuitive and suboptimal class.

Really, if WotC keeps up the new content dripfeed, I couldn't care less if the "fixed" ranger is the last thing they release before 6e in a decade's time.

[krugaan]

Actually, Jeremy and Mike do not playtest. They have volunteers to do that. Source: the list of playtesters from the SCAG and other books. Mike and Jeremy are listed as designers in the SCAG, as two among ten. The book is only 130 pages, divided by 10 people, that's 13 pages of writing per person. And that's the only sourcebook they've done so far. So my curiousity is not satisfied. What do the lead designers of DND do all day? It isnt' writing books, that's for sure.

I was assuming they didn't, actually. Playtesting probably shouldn't be done by the designers for fear of bias. However, there is a lag between testing and redesigning, no?

They probably do a lot of throwing ideas around, browsing forums for research and feedback. While they may not playtest themselves, they very likely sit in on sessions, that probably takes time. Reading twitter feeds, responding to questions, planning meetings, editing underling contributions, that sort of thing.

edit: I'm hoping that they take their time with these things, which it seems like they are. I'm pretty sure they don't just fool around for 29 days and then bang out 5000 words the last day and send it to print.

[Oramac]

browsing forums for research and feedback.

I would be shocked if they didn't lurk on this very forum.

[TentacleSurpris]

And there's also 10 other classes with 2-5 subclasses apiece that the "fixed" ranger has to be balanced against. So multiple 1-20 tests, ensuring no possible combination of classes and feats could break bounded accuracy and make the game unfun. I think giving someone a year is putting it on the tight side. Especially considering this isn't new content, but a rules patch on a perfectly fine, if unintuitive and suboptimal class.

Really, if WotC keeps up the new content dripfeed, I couldn't care less if the "fixed" ranger is the last thing they release before 6e in a decade's time.

All of the design is done by outsourcing now. That's their business model. They laid off most of the staff when the core books were finished, who then went to companies like Green Ronin, who were then contracted to write the books that have been published so far. Green Ronin did the SCAG. Kobold press did the Tiamat duo. Sasquatch did elemental evil. Bill Slaviscek and Chris Perkins did Out of the Abyss, and neither are WOTC employees. ETC for the other books. The playtesting and design minutiae are being done out of house. Source; check the credits page for any book.

You really don't know game design if you think it takes a year to write a class. If that were true, the PHB would have taken twelve years for the classes alone, and that was starting from scratch.

So what do the in-house people do?

[krugaan]

I would be shocked if they didn't lurk on this very forum.

Probably, given they shut down the official WOTC ones. Actually, probably a very smart move on their part... let someone else shoulder all the controversy, lol.

Let the speculation commence!

[krugaan]

All of the design is done by outsourcing now. That's their business model. They laid off most of the staff when the core books were finished, who then went to companies like Green Ronin, who were then contracted to write the books that have been published so far. Green Ronin did the SCAG. Kobold press did the Tiamat duo. Sasquatch did elemental evil. Bill Slaviscek and Chris Perkins did Out of the Abyss, and neither are WOTC employees. ETC for the other books. The playtesting and design minutiae are being done out of house. Source; check the credits page for any book.

You really don't know game design if you think it takes a year to write a class. If that were true, the PHB would have taken twelve years for the classes alone, and that was starting from scratch.

So what do the in-house people do?

They do absolutely nothing, apparently.

[Beleriphon]

All of the design is done by outsourcing now. That's their business model. They laid off most of the staff when the core books were finished, who then went to companies like Green Ronin, who were then contracted to write the books that have been published so far. Green Ronin did the SCAG. Kobold press did the Tiamat duo. Sasquatch did elemental evil. Bill Slaviscek and Chris Perkins did Out of the Abyss, and neither are WOTC employees. ETC for the other books. The playtesting and design minutiae are being done out of house. Source; check the credits page for any book.

You really don't know game design if you think it takes a year to write a class. If that were true, the PHB would have taken twelve years for the classes alone, and that was starting from scratch.

So what do the in-house people do?

Curse of Strahd is an in house design. So I mean who knows what they're doing, its not like it our job to care what Mike Mearls' and Jeremy Crawford's jobs actually are and if they're doing them. Do you not have enough material to play a game? Are you mad when CD RedProjeckt take like three years to realease a game, and they have a substantially larger staff than WotC does for D&D. I mean many video game projects can get churned out in a few months, so why can't those CD RedProjeckt guys churn out the Witcher 3 faster for me?! What are they doing with all that free time? I mean if some indie game company can splurg down some 8-bit pixel garbageware in a week why can't I get Cyberpunk 2077 right this second, no way a game like that can take years to design, build and play test!

[NewDM]

Filling some holes, is not a complete overhaul like NewDM wants.

While some may complain that there releases are few and far in between, at least we are not seeing a proliferation of crappy unbalanced stuff coming out month after months like we've seen for the last 15 years.

Who said anything about a "complete overhaul"? I just want the 30% of the game that 80% of people on this sub-forum expressed needed work in the thread about what percentage you liked and disliked of 5E.

Things like putting the revised Ranger through testing and then releasing it at core. Fixing things that are obviously broken. A little rebalancing here and there. Throw in a warlord and a 4e style archetype for each class. That would be about it.


And there's also 10 other classes with 2-5 subclasses apiece that the "fixed" ranger has to be balanced against. So multiple 1-20 tests, ensuring no possible combination of classes and feats could break bounded accuracy and make the game unfun. I think giving someone a year is putting it on the tight side. Especially considering this isn't new content, but a rules patch on a perfectly fine, if unintuitive and suboptimal class.

Really, if WotC keeps up the new content dripfeed, I couldn't care less if the "fixed" ranger is the last thing they release before 6e in a decade's time.

They can easily use a software prototyping app to simulate 5e and thousands of combats using every combination of moving parts at night when they are out of the office.

[MeeposFire]

There's got to be a balance of setting information; enough that new players know what they're playing with, but not so much that the veterans feel it's repetitive. Eberron is especially vulnerable to this, because unlike FR, it has a fixed starting point. The books are always 998YK, two years after the Last War. Campaigns can run before or after this time, but the default time is always the same.

Aside: On the other hand, this also makes it so that Eberron players don't have a Spellplague twisting their setting's lore to fit 4e's different mechanics in like a square peg.

The SCAG did a good job with that balance, I feel. I never read Forgotten Realms material before, and I feel the SCAG gave me enough information that I can go tackle the more in-depth 3.5 stuff and start fitting it to a cohesive whole. Still prefer Eberron, though. It gives a lot more leeway for creative storytelling when you can ignore the alignment of monsters; a white dragon might always be dim (by dragon standards), but they aren't all especially cunning snow beasts with a breath weapon. The intelligent races get as much charm and personality as the playable races; druidic orcs, jungle tribe drow, philosopher-knight oni, etc.

To be fair forcing things like the spell plague and the Time of Troubles are things that particuraly apply to FR more than any other setting. Other settings may change time periods or make minor changes but FR feels like it has to specify most every change in mechanics with a global change. When 2e got rid of the assassin class FR had every assassin killed off officially after the time of troubles (which is silly since not all assassins were actually of that class) namely because of that change in the rule set. MOst settings would not go that far they would just do things like using the thief class or others as the basis for most assassins and let Bhaal stick around and not have a world wide purge of assassins.

When Dark Sun was released for 4e the partly retconned it back from the 2nd set of setting books that originally pushed the timeline forward. So Dark Sun had changed mechanics but the setting did not have to do big drastic changes to make it fit (thankfully). Defiling was still bad even if the mechanics for it were not the same (and now you actually were tempted to use it as any arcane caster).

FR was also unusual due to its use of novels. Most D&D settings had novels (heck that used to be a huge part of TSR's business) but FR had a particular focus on them and that what happened in them was directly part of the overall cannon (though a DM could obviously choose to ignore any and all of them if they so choose). Eberron books on the other hand were pointedly NOT part of the cannon even when written by Kieth Baker. Neither is a bad thing depending on your style but it is interesting how each treats these works.

[Regitnui]

Who said anything about a "complete overhaul"? I just want the 30% of the game that 80% of people on this sub-forum expressed needed work in the thread about what percentage you liked and disliked of 5E.

That's what "5.5e" implies. A complete overhaul. What you actually seem to want is 4.5e, not 5e. Most of what you claim needs fixing, especially from the thread "what percentage of 5e do you like?", is instead things that aren't to people's personal taste, and a lot of people will admit that instead of claiming WotC's entire D&D department must be under the effects of a permanent feeblemind spell to not have built something that pleases everyone perfectly.

[Gastronomie]

You know, it's not like it's a video game where the mechanics are absolute. If you really don't like a particular rule, you can just ignore or alter it at your table.

And if you can't gather enough people who agree with you, that's pretty much evidence that everyone except you is fine with how stuff currently are...

[Regitnui]

You know, it's not like it's a video game where the mechanics are absolute. If you really don't like a particular rule, you can just ignore or alter it at your table.

That's a house rule, and he dislikes house rules almost as much as he dislikes magic items.

[Gastronomie]

That's a house rule, and he dislikes house rules almost as much as he dislikes magic items.

Okay, is there anything in the world that he actually likes?

[RickAllison]

Okay, is there anything in the world that he actually likes?

Parts of 4e that he can't deal without in this edition, but not enough to continue with that one?

[djreynolds]

I'm hoping for a beastmaster, who cannot attack nor can their beast. They just stand there or sit. Oh wait we have that.

[Arkhios]

I'm hoping for a beastmaster, who cannot attack nor can their beast. They just stand there or sit. Oh wait we have that.

Except that's not true. They can attack. Not simultaneously, at first, but soon enough they will (3rd level vs 5th level). Beast Master could perform better, I agree that much, but claiming it doesn't work at all is a huge understatement. And as of errata, the beast can act on its own, if or when the master is incapable of commanding it. (i.e. continues obliging the most recent command, or defends itself or master).

PS. I'm aware that was sarcasm.

[gameogre]

How long does it take to go from levels 1-20? Couple of months of play time, assuming they're only play testing for their entire 9 hour shift? I think it's entirely possible to take this long if they want to be sure.

Well unless they REALY fixed the class, it could take a long long long time to get to 20th.

[NewDM]

Okay, is there anything in the world that he actually likes?

Don't get caught up their posting. I'm doing what the higher power said to do and ignoring them.

I like about 70% of 5E. I've listed the things I'd want updated and if you read the thread a lot of people agree with me. I also do not want a return to 4E. I want a return to what 4e did, which was create a balanced tactical game.

[DanyBallon]

Don't get caught up their posting. I'm doing what the higher power said to do and ignoring them.

I like about 70% of 5E. I've listed the things I'd want updated and if you read the thread a lot of people agree with me. I also do not want a return to 4E. I want a return to what 4e did, which was create a balanced tactical game.

Unfortunately, D&D, except for 4e, is a fantasy roleplaying game, not a tactical game like you're looking for. 3.P made a large place to miniatures and tactical play, but you could play without as well.

And as far as saying that a lot of people agree with you in a thread you've made isn't a proof that the community is agreeing with you. It just prove that you've got some like minded people participating in your thread. The one that don't agree with you just stopped posting because as soon as there's an opinion contrary to yours, you either dismiss it as not being on topic, or try to discredit it as much as you can. It get tiresome on the long run, so in the end, people that disagree with you just ignore your threads.

Sorry if this sounds rude, it's not my intention, I just wanted to let you know that it's not because some agree with you, that means you know what is good for the future of this edition. I believe the developers have a better input on what's working and what isn't from the sales and survey.

[Gastronomie]

If you're going for a tactical game...

...That's not what I really want. I mean, aren't video games better for that matter?

[DracoKnight]

I mean, aren't video games better for that matter?

Fire Emblem is amazing :smallbiggrin:

[JumboWheat01]

Fire Emblem is amazing :smallbiggrin:

Until RNG decides to have its way with you. Blasted critical hits...

[krugaan]

Fire Emblem is amazing :smallbiggrin:

Pbbbt, final fantasy tactics, son!

Just don't use Cid.

[DracoKnight]

Until RNG decides to have its way with you. Blasted critical hits...

Eh, yes, but that'll happen in pretty much any game.

[Gnomes2169]

Fire Emblem is amazing :smallbiggrin:

All hail lords Eliwood, Hector and Ike, the greatest lords ever fielded, all able to solo their respective games with no fear of the crit gods! Okay, maybe a liiiitle bit of fear for the crit gods. But that's only healthy.


Until RNG decides to have its way with you. Blasted critical hits...

Speak not of the vile perfect-run killers, lest they haunt your next save file.


Pbbbt, final fantasy tactics, son!

Just don't use Cid.
... How dare you.

[DracoKnight]

All hail lords Eliwood, Hector and Ike, the greatest lords ever fielded, all able to solo their respective games with no fear of the crit gods! Okay, maybe a liiiitle bit of fear for the crit gods. But that's only healthy.

As a character writer, I actually like the NPCs/Recruits in Fire Emblem more :smallsmile: ESPECIALLY IN FATES :smallbiggrin: I love the characters in Fates! Corrin's great, and surrounded by an excellent supporting cast, no matter which path you play :smallsmile:

[Gnomes2169]

As a character writer, I actually like the NPCs/Recruits in Fire Emblem more :smallsmile: ESPECIALLY IN FATES :smallbiggrin: I love the characters in Fates! Corrin's great, and surrounded by an excellent supporting cast, no matter which path you play :smallsmile:

I've always had a soft spot for my sword masters... Edward, Guy and (most especially) Joshua for the win!

Though Fates is, admittedly, not my favorite from a story standpoint. The english translation just butchers the tone, intended dialogue and interactions.

Oh and to stay on topic... I'll throw in a vote for psionics, ebberon and darksun as well.

[Rallicus]

MM2, that's all this edition needs. No setting books (just convert 2e stuff), no goofy out of place classes, no more APs.

Just give me that MM2. One that doesn't devote a huge chunk to dragons, and one that actually has more than like... 5 templates (three of which are dragon related!).

[comk59]

I've always been partial to XCOM myself. I like a bit of fiddly resource management.

[DracoKnight]

I've always had a soft spot for my sword masters... Edward, Guy and (most especially) Joshua for the win!

Though Fates is, admittedly, not my favorite from a story standpoint. The english translation just butchers the tone, intended dialogue and interactions.

Entirely fair - the localization team did a **** job on Fates. But the characters themselves are great, I've been finding. They're much less the one-dimesnional characters of previous games - certainly deeper than those of Awakening.

And Lon'qu and Ryoma are obviously the best Swordmasters! :smallbiggrin:

[Regitnui]

Shoo! Off to the video game.forum with thee! Here we play D&D, not your JRPG nonsense. :smalltongue:

Looking back, it seems that the most common guesses for the June 1st reveal are;
Monster Manual 2
Player's handbook 2
Psionics
Eberron Explorer's Handbook

[DracoKnight]

Shoo! Off to the video game.forum with thee! Here we play D&D, not your JRPG nonsense. :smalltongue:

Aye, my apologies! Back to my western fantasy I come!

[Temperjoke]

A boat's a boat, but a mystery box could be anything! It could even be a boat!

[Beleriphon]

A boat's a boat, but a mystery box could be anything! It could even be a boat!

It could! Maybe its the Big Book of Ogres!

[Gnomes2169]

It could! Maybe its the Big Book of Ogres!

Probably just gonna be a mimic again. Those things are getting smarter, I swear.

[comk59]

Probably just gonna be a mimic again. Those things are getting smarter, I swear.

I had a session that involved smart mimics

I once had an entire city populated by mimics, led by a talking intelligent mimic who took the form of a statue.

My players got a little freaked out when the statue's head split in half to reveal teeth a lá the thing. My favorite part of that adventure was getting to say the words "The statue bites you with his sword".

Anyway, long story short, smart minics are awesome.

[RedMage125]

Probably just gonna be a mimic again. Those things are getting smarter, I swear.

I stopped disguising them as cliche things like boxes and chests. "That door you just opened? Your hand is stuck to the handle, and it's about to bite you in the face."

[Gnomes2169]

I stopped disguising them as cliche things like boxes and chests. "That door you just opened? Your hand is stuck to the handle, and it's about to bite you in the face."

Mine tend to be spell books, wands, sections of floor, the sun... You know. Things that only the most paranoid of PC's would suspect.

[hymer]

Shoo! Off to the video game.forum with thee! Here we play D&D, not your JRPG nonsense. :smalltongue:

Looking back, it seems that the most common guesses for the June 1st reveal are;
Monster Manual 2
Player's handbook 2
Psionics
Eberron Explorer's Handbook

For what it's worth, a local gaming store's website is expecting a 1st September D&D book called Storm King's Thunder, and it's under scenarios. So it's probably another adventure if they're right and I'm right about them being right.

[Regitnui]

For what it's worth, a local gaming store's website is expecting a 1st September D&D book called Storm King's Thunder, and it's under scenarios. So it's probably another adventure if they're right and I'm right about them being right.

I only hope that 'Storm King" refers to one of the leaders of Stormreach; the gateway to Eberron's continent of adventure Xen'drik. In past editions, they were Coin/Storm Lords, but it's worth hoping.

[Anonymouswizard]

Mine tend to be spell books, wands, sections of floor, the sun... You know. Things that only the most paranoid of PC's would suspect.

I'm now intrigue as to how a Mimic could be a sun...

Yeah, I'm hoping for a Players' Handbook II, ideally with psionics, more strictly-martial options, lots more feats, and a brief overview of some settings (I'd personally like to see Placescape, Dark Sun, and Eberron).

Failing that, I want a Multiverse Explorer's Guide, which includes planescape as the overarching setting, but uses it to present and support other settings (my ideal list? Birthright for standard fantasy, then Eberron, Dark Sun, and a handful of new ones). Essentially, a book of 'here's a rough overview and the mechanics for various settings (including psionics for Dark Sun), pick up 2e pdfs for more detail'.

[JackPhoenix]

I only hope that 'Storm King" refers to one of the leaders of Stormreach; the gateway to Eberron's continent of adventure Xen'drik. In past editions, they were Coin/Storm Lords, but it's worth hoping.

Weeeell, if you go in that direction, it may just as well be Stormreaver stolen from DDO...(he's also a giant, which fits better)

Keith Baker says he doesn't know anything about Eberron book being in the making, however. He also hopes to get Eberron available for DM's Guild, because he's got a ton of things he wants to write about and can't

And I'm reminded of Thunder King from WoW, for some reason...

[DanyBallon]

I don't think wéll get an Eberron adventure soon, or any othe setting as a matter of fact. The storyline they released twice a year is used for NWN online as well for AL, both being set in Fearûn. They were able to released Curse of Stradh because the way Ravenloft exist. The fog can appear in any setting and take you to Ravenloft without you noticing. ...Getting out is a whole other story though :smallbiggrin:

[JackPhoenix]

I don't think wéll get an Eberron adventure soon, or any othe setting as a matter of fact. The storyline they released twice a year is used for NWN online as well for AL, both being set in Fearûn. They were able to released Curse of Stradh because the way Ravenloft exist. The fog can appear in any setting and take you to Ravenloft without you noticing. ...Getting out is a whole other story though :smallbiggrin:

Well, they put intersetting portal to FR into Eberron-based DDO, so there's some precedent and it would be nice to make the trip the other way (which leads me back to Stormreaver :smallcool:)... but you're right.

[Gwendol]

For what it's worth, a local gaming store's website is expecting a 1st September D&D book called Storm King's Thunder, and it's under scenarios. So it's probably another adventure if they're right and I'm right about them being right.

Could be a reference to a (storm) giant king.

[Regitnui]

Keith Baker says he doesn't know anything about Eberron book being in the making, however. He also hopes to get Eberron available for DM's Guild, because he's got a ton of things he wants to write about and can't


Ooh! That sounds like a whole lot of awesome. One thing will almost certainly be a book of Eberron's seas; he's said before that he's never had room to put that lore in an official product before.



Could be a reference to a (storm) giant king.

And Eberron has the greatest civilization of giants in D&D. Or had.

The world serpent inn is the perfect way yo get faerun player characters into Stormreach just in time for an expedition to some cyclopean Xen'drik ruins.

[JackPhoenix]

Ooh! That sounds like a whole lot of awesome. One thing will almost certainly be a book of Eberron's seas; he's said before that he's never had room to put that lore in an official product before.

From what he said, seas, Demon Waste (and propably fiends in general), there's a lot interest for planes and Khyber (he says he'll propably do monthly releases focused on one plane each). Goblinoids (both races, Darguun and Dhakaan), historic events (War of the Mark, Xoriat Incursion, Lycanthropic Purge, Last War). "Themes of Eberron" (investigation, dreams, espionage, possibly crime, war and Prophecy), Droaam (and propably monsters in general) and Book of Beginings (ideas for getting the party together and giving it common story/background/reasons to stick together)

http://keith-baker.com/dragonmarks-52316-whatcomesnext

[EvanescentHero]

Tomorrow is the day! Any final predictions or rumors you might've heard? I'll be at work, unfortunately, so I won't be able to watch the stream.

[JackPhoenix]

Tomorrow is the day! Any final predictions or rumors you might've heard? I'll be at work, unfortunately, so I won't be able to watch the stream.

Well, last year had an adventure and SCAG in autumn, so my guess is giant-based adventure and one splatbook (either Eberron, MM2 or PHB2, in this order). I would be pleasantly surprised if it turns out to be more than one of the later.

[Gwendol]

Well, last year had an adventure and SCAG in autumn, so my guess is giant-based adventure and one splatbook (either Eberron, MM2 or PHB2, in this order). I would be pleasantly surprised if it turns out to be more than one of the later.

That's in line with my expectations as well.

[Regitnui]

Well, last year had an adventure and SCAG in autumn, so my guess is giant-based adventure and one splatbook (either Eberron, MM2 or PHB2, in this order). I would be pleasantly surprised if it turns out to be more than one of the later.

I'll third that. An Indiana Jones-esque adventure into the depths of Xen'drik for the Storm King's Crown will be a great way to reintroduce Eberron. Though there's the half-elves of House Lyrandar with their own mythology around Storm Kings...

[DizzyWood]

Filling some holes, is not a complete overhaul like NewDM wants.

While some may complain that there releases are few and far in between, at least we are not seeing a proliferation of crappy unbalanced stuff coming out month after months like we've seen for the last 15 years.

God yes. When I was playing 3.5 I fan boy-ed way to hard and bought EVERYTHING I could. then I got home and read it and I suddenly realized I was ashamed to own some of those books.

[EvanescentHero]

Well, last year had an adventure and SCAG in autumn, so my guess is giant-based adventure and one splatbook (either Eberron, MM2 or PHB2, in this order). I would be pleasantly surprised if it turns out to be more than one of the later.

I'd be satisfied with that. An adventure and a new splat would be enough for me. People rail on the SCAG, but I really liked most of the content it did add, especially since most of it was new and not stuff we'd seen before in UA. I would like to see more UA stuff become official, but I also enjoy surprises.

I just hope to see more subclasses for the classes that only have two.

[mgshamster]

I'd be satisfied with that. An adventure and a new splat would be enough for me. People rail on the SCAG, but I really liked most of the content it did add, especially since most of it was new and not stuff we'd seen before in UA. I would like to see more UA stuff become official, but I also enjoy surprises.

I just hope to see more subclasses for the classes that only have two.

The only thing I didn't like about SCAG was that the artwork for all the gnomes made them look like a joke instead of a serious character one would play.

[MeeposFire]

The only thing I didn't like about SCAG was that the artwork for all the gnomes made them look like a joke instead of a serious character one would play.

Huh that is how I felt about most of the artwork for halflings in the PHB.

[mgshamster]

Huh that is how I felt about most of the artwork for halflings in the PHB.

Oh, yeah. That bugged me, too.

[Nicrosil]

Gnomes just suck.

Anyway, with less than 24 hours to go I made a quick strawpoll to see what people think. I checked the forum guidelines and I'm *pretty* sure this is kosher, but if it's not I'll gladly remove it, just let me know. Also, I'm on my phone so please excuse the ugly link.

http://www.strawpoll.me/10362893

[JumboWheat01]

The only thing I didn't like about SCAG was that the artwork for all the gnomes made them look like a joke instead of a serious character one would play.

They were rather funny looking, weren't they? I swear, gnomes, out of all races, go through so many different designs...

[EvanescentHero]

The only thing I didn't like about SCAG was that the artwork for all the gnomes made them look like a joke instead of a serious character one would play.

I see your point--the proportions for gnomes and halflings in most of the artwork is a little odd this time. That being said, I've always found it difficult to take gnomes seriously anyway, so it doesn't bug me too much!

[Regitnui]

I see your point--the proportions for gnomes and halflings in most of the artwork is a little odd this time. That being said, I've always found it difficult to take gnomes seriously anyway, so it doesn't bug me too much!

Personally, I always find it tricky to imagine halflings and gnomes alongside the Medium races. The 3.5 PHB at least had that lineup which helped.

[Gwendol]

The background picture shows a longboat in the rain. It would be fun with a norse-inspired adventure. Against giants, maybe looking for thor's hammer and fishing after the midgard snake?

[Arkhios]

The background picture shows a longboat in the rain. It would be fun with a norse-inspired adventure. Against giants, maybe looking for thor's hammer and fishing after the midgard snake?

*Norse-fanboy in me just let out a squeal* Pics or it didn't happen! :smalltongue:

[Gwendol]

*Norse-fanboy in me just let out a squeal* Pics or it didn't happen! :smalltongue:

Follow this link: https://dnd.wizards.com/ :smallwink:

[hymer]

I just realized, since the reveal is 4PM Pacific Time, for most of the world's population, it will already be June 2nd by the time they get around to making their announcements.

[Arkhios]

Follow this link: https://dnd.wizards.com/ :smallwink:

*SQUEEEEEEEEE!*

If that's it, it surpasses my highest hopes. If they really are releasing something for seafaring adventurers, I can already see which Unearthed Arcana article most likely is going to see daylight as officially published material: Waterborne Adventures (https://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/UA_Waterborne_v3.pdf)
They have already released Swashbuckler and Storm Sorcerer out of it, makes quite a lot of sense to me to release the rest of it next.

[Regitnui]

The background picture shows a longboat in the rain. It would be fun with a norse-inspired adventure. Against giants, maybe looking for thor's hammer and fishing after the midgard snake?

House Lyrandar! Sea Voyages! Hunting Giant Ruins in the Wilds of Xen'drik!

[Arkhios]

House Lyrandar! Sea Voyages! Hunting Giant Ruins in the Wilds of Xen'drik!

Explore the post-cataclysm Krynn and beyond (Taladas).

Faerun with its remaining landscape changes opened up a lot of seafaring potential to the inland as well.

All in all, seafaring has lots of potential throughout every settings, so it would make for a fitting new publication.

[Malifice]

Row row row your boat
Kill it for XP
Merrily merrily merrily merrily
Its life is worth XP.

[Gwendol]

Moonshae, for the win!

[EvanescentHero]

*SQUEEEEEEEEE!*

If that's it, it surpasses my highest hopes. If they really are releasing something for seafaring adventurers, I can already see which Unearthed Arcana article most likely is going to see daylight as officially published material: Waterborne Adventures (https://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/UA_Waterborne_v3.pdf)
They have already released Swashbuckler and Storm Sorcerer out of it, makes quite a lot of sense to me to release the rest of it next.

Well, the only things left from that UA are the Mariner fighting style and minotaurs as a playable race. I'd be happy to see those both made official, but they'll need a lot more to make a full book out of. Plus if it is an Eberron book, the Eberron UA would probably be the most likely choice.

A seafaring adventure could be a lot of fun! I've been thinking about running an aquatic campaign once my current one closes up.

[Oramac]

*SQUEEEEEEEEE!*

If that's it, it surpasses my highest hopes. If they really are releasing something for seafaring adventurers, I can already see which Unearthed Arcana article most likely is going to see daylight as officially published material: Waterborne Adventures (https://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/UA_Waterborne_v3.pdf)
They have already released Swashbuckler and Storm Sorcerer out of it, makes quite a lot of sense to me to release the rest of it next.

I will second the hell out of that squee! I'm a huge fan of Norse mythology, and a waterborne adventure would be a perfect excuse to get my Tempest/Storm Sorcerer out of the godforsaken Underdark and back on a boat!

[KorvinStarmast]

Row row row your boat
Kill it for XP
Merrily merrily merrily merrily
Its life is worth XP. Climbing the charts as Belkarecords' number one hit, the full version will be available on iTunes ...

[pwykersotz]

I will second the hell out of that squee! I'm a huge fan of Norse mythology, and a waterborne adventure would be a perfect excuse to get my Tempest/Storm Sorcerer out of the godforsaken Underdark and back on a boat!

Thirded! It probably has nothing to do with my ancestry. :smalltongue:

Wait, can descendants of vikings squee? Oh well, doing it anyway.

[Regitnui]

I just checked. 4pm PT is 1 am where I live... Guess I'll find out in the morning.

[Temperjoke]

I told you guys that it might be a boat!!!!!

[Coyote81]

I'd love to see seafaring adventures in Kyrnn, I think the post cataclysm world of dragonlance needs some love.

[Steampunkette]

I was hoping for Dark Sun and Psionics.

*kicks a rock*

Well... Krynn would be fine. Vikings slightly less so.

[Kite474]

I expect more realm sludge... Anything else will be an improvement. As for the whole Vikings and Waterborne stuff I am not sure. If only because when I think aquatic adventurers pirates are the usual suspects.

[Dragolord]

So... we want an expansion based around Psionic Minotaur Vikings, which is set in a desert, on Eberron?

[Kite474]

So... we want an expansion based around Psionic Minotaur Vikings, which is set in a desert, on Eberron?

I am not going to lie to you. That sounds amazing and I would buy 3 copies!

[Temperjoke]

So... we want an expansion based around Psionic Minotaur Vikings, which is set in a desert, on Eberron?

They raid and pillage caravans traveling on a desert so vast, with sand so loose, they call it an ocean.

[RickAllison]

They raid and pillage caravans traveling on a desert so vast, with sand so loose, they call it an ocean.

So they live in Filgaia? Which is something I would be A-OK with, just so we know...

[Dragolord]

They raid and pillage caravans traveling on a desert so vast, with sand so loose, they call it an ocean.
The sand is partially made up of tiny psicystals. The ships' undersides are covered with a charged version of this psisand, allowing them to repel, and float above, the desert dunes.

[Anonymouswizard]

If someone is willing to write Psionic Viking Minotaur Pirates of the Dune Sea and put it on DMs' Guild I'd buy it right now.

[DracoKnight]

If someone is willing to write Psionic Viking Minotaur Pirates of the Dune Sea and put it on DMs' Guild I'd buy it right now.

I second this.

[EvanescentHero]

For what it's worth, a local gaming store's website is expecting a 1st September D&D book called Storm King's Thunder, and it's under scenarios. So it's probably another adventure if they're right and I'm right about them being right.

WotC's Twitch channel has a logo in the corner with the words "Storm King's Thunder," so that seems accurate at least. We'll see what else gets announced, if anything.

[mgshamster]

Storm King's Thunder looks to be yet another forgotten realms adventure.

[mgshamster]

New monsters and new monster playable races to come out in the fall.

[twas_Brillig]

Couple of details:

The king of the giants has vanished, leaving a power vacuum. Players get to deal with his three warring daughters.
Rune magic is supposed to give "the small folk" the means to deal with giants, force them to maintain a peace, etc.
Runes are powerful magic items with a lot of versatility, and can be used to enhance other items.
They're also releasing Volo's Guide to Monsters, with special guest commentary by Elminster. I might have misheard, but it sounds like they wanted to give player options (?) with Tritons and Firbolgs. There's a special limited edition with a fancy cover.

[mgshamster]

“Giants have emerged from their strongholds to threaten civilization as never before. Hill giants are stealing all the grain and livestock they can while stone giants have been scouring settlements that have been around forever. Fire giants are press-ganging the smallfolk into the desert, while frost giant longships have been pillaging along the Sword Coast. Even the elusive cloud giants have been witnessed, their wondrous floating cities appearing above Waterdeep and Baldur’s Gate. Where is the storm giant King Hekaton, who is tasked with keeping order among the giants?

The humans, dwarves, elves, and other small folk of the Sword Coast will be crushed underfoot from the onslaught of these giant foes. The only chance at survival is for the small folk to work together to investigate this invasion and harness the power of rune magic, the giants’ weapon against their ancient enemy the dragons. The only way the people of Faerun can restore order is to use the giants’ own power against them.”

Ok. That sounds effing awesome.

[JackPhoenix]

No big surprise on the adventure, but another FR focused splatbook? (MM2?) Meh

[twas_Brillig]

Matt Mercer is going to be doing a prequel adventure in...a while? that's going to be the start of a new D&D series in the vein of Critical Role and Acquisitions Incorporated.

Penny Arcade's Acquisitions Incorporated series is going to be a weekly youtube series to lead up to Storm King's Thunder.

The Twitch channel is salty about Patrick Rothfuss having a life outside of writing his book. (that's not a new product, that's just how the chat works)

EDIT: Storm King's Thunder expansion for the Neverwinter MMO, featuring the same (?) giant language from the other products. (EDIT: and Neverwinter is coming to PS4)

EDIT: Whoever is running this stream has no idea how volume works.

[Belac93]

Links:

Storm King's Thunder (http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/storm-kings-thunder)
Volo's guide to monsters (http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/volos-guide-to-monsters)

Storm king seems meh, but OH MY GOD!. Volo's guide to monsters has me going YES!!!


"Volo’s Guide to Monsters provides something exciting for players and Dungeon Masters everywhere.

Dive deep into the story behind D&D’s most popular and iconic monsters, including beholders, mind flayers, and the yuan-ti, as well as classics like orcs, gnolls, and kobolds.
Gain access to rules and story for dozens of monsters new to fifth edition Dungeons & Dragons, such as the froghemoth, the neogi, and the vargouille.
Open up new race options, including the goblin, the orc, and the firbolg.

The esteemed loremaster Volothamp Geddarm is back and he’s written a fantastical dissertation, covering some of the most iconic monsters in the Forgotten Realms. Unfortunately, the Sage of Shadowdale himself, Elminster, doesn’t believe Volo gets some of the important details quite right. Don’t miss out as Volo and Elminster square off (academically speaking of course) to illuminate the uninitiated on creatures both common and obscure. Uncover the machinations of the mysterious Kraken Society, what is the origin of the bizarre froghemoth, or how to avoid participating in the ghastly reproductive cycle of the grotesque vargouille. Dungeon Masters and players will get some much-needed guidance as you plan your next venture, traipsing about some dusty old ruin in search of treasure, lore, and let’s not forget ... dangerous creatures whose horns, claws, fangs, heads, or even hides might comfortably adorn the walls of your trophy room. If you survive."


We are getting monster player races. My dream has, once again, come true.

But now I'm going to be tapping my feet until September.

[twas_Brillig]

Dive deep into the story behind D&D’s most popular and iconic monsters, including beholders, mind flayers, and the yuan-ti, as well as classics like orcs, gnolls, and kobolds.
Gain access to rules and story for dozens of monsters new to fifth edition Dungeons & Dragons, such as the froghemoth, the neogi, and the vargouille.
Open up new race options, including the goblin, the orc, and the firbolg.

Ooo, froghemoths.

[EvanescentHero]

I ****ing love monsters as playable races, so I'm really glad this is happening. Kobolds seem like an obvious choice, so I'm sure they'll make the cut, but I wonder about weirder ones like the gith or maybe even a toned-down mind flayer.

Additionally, with the giant adventure involving rune magic, I wonder if we'll see the prestige class become official.

[Kane0]

Look wallet, I don't care what you think about our financial situation right now. We are talking about giant adventure(r)s and Volo's works here!

[JackPhoenix]

Well, at least this adventure looks like it would be easy to port to a better setting (namely, Eberron), unlike, say, OotA. MM2 (that's what it is) focused on FR, though? Thanks the Sovereigns for scanned PDFs, no way I'm gonna buy that. I hope WotC will do a survey about that, I have few choice thoughts for them...

[Envyus]

Well, at least this adventure looks like it would be easy to port to a better setting (namely, Eberron), unlike, say, OotA. MM2 (that's what it is) focused on FR, though? Thanks the Sovereigns for scanned PDFs, no way I'm gonna buy that. I hope WotC will do a survey about that, I have few choice thoughts for them...

So you are not going to get the new monster book, just because it's features FR stuff.

[Nicrosil]

Oh boy, more Realms stuff.

The new monster book looks interesting, as does the new adventure path. Also, rune magic! I found a text block about it I don't think anyone posted yet.

"RUNE MAGIC
Ancient and Powerful Rune magic is an ancient practice that allows giants, and anyone else who masters the runes of power, to grant magical properties to an object by scribing a rune on to it. People who use runes are called runecasters

Runes are at their strongest when scribed into objects that difficult or dangerous to acquire. Exotic, rare, and expensive objects can channel greater magic from a rune, but to truly empower a rune, a runecaster must seek the bones of powerful monsters, rare and valuable treasures, and materials found only in deadly dungeons or the outer planes to produce the rune’s most powerful effects.

But there is danger in working with runes. The giants have cataloged some of the interactions between runes and various objects, but many more remain undiscovered, and unexpected results have been known to produce catastrophic effects."

So, my best guess right now is that runes are like the transmuter's stone and give passive benefits to the person holding them. I'm guessing that a few basic runes would be available to anyone, but more powerful ones are like magic items: not something PCs can make, more like magic items that you go questing for or find in a monster's hoard.

It also sounds like having multiple runes equipped can interfere with each other, like the optional mixing potions rules or wild magic surges.

[JackPhoenix]

So you are not going to get the new monster book, just because it's features FR stuff.

I'll get it, sooner or later, scanned PDFs are gonna show up somewhere on 'net. I just don't consider it worth my money. If it was setting neutral? Sure. Dark Sun, Greyhawk, Spelljammer, whatever? Yeah, I don't play either of those, but I would still buy it. But I don't support release of more FR material when there are other settings that deserve their own books. Adventures are bad enough as it is, at least CoS exists.

[JumboWheat01]

So you are not going to get the new monster book, just because it's features FR stuff.

It would be nice if we got a little LESS stuff for the Realms. Don't take me wrong, I got into D&D pretty much through the Realms (considering how many video games there are for it,) but I've started to become quite curious about the other worlds, and most of the info on them is out-dated now.

[EvanescentHero]

I updated the original post with links to the official pages for these books!

[Plaguescarred]

News monsters book is great. I always liked Volo's guide in 2E as well.

I have a feeling WoTC is moving away from a PHB 1,2,3... DMG 1,2... MM 1,2,3 business model. They find a different way of distributing additional monsters in significant enought numbers and that suffice me i must say!

[Gastronomie]

The idea of the monster guide is awesome. As a setting-nerd, I must lay my hands upon it.

[Belac93]

Well, here is how I suspect the player options will go:

Confirmed: Goblin, Fireblog, Orc. Not much to say about the last 2, but I am wondering if goblins will be goblinoids, or just goblins.

Suspected: Hobgoblins, kobolds, gnolls. This seems like its centered more on the classic, mundane stuff, so I'm not expecting githzeri or anything like that.

Hoping: That actually seems like it would be pretty sweet to me. A spriggan gnome subrace would be nice, or maybe bullywugs.

[Arkhios]

There goes down the drain my hopes for something cool ....oh, wait. RUNE MAGIC?!

[Temperjoke]

There goes down the drain my hopes for something cool ....oh, wait. RUNE MAGIC?!

So it would seem.

I hope they've cleaned it up since the UA, that was kinda confusing for me to sort out everything going on with it mechanically.

[Arkhios]

So it would seem.

I hope they've cleaned it up since the UA, that was kinda confusing for me to sort out everything going on with it mechanically.

It was a bit fiddly to say the least.
If we're getting access to Rune Magic, the odds are we'll also finally see the first official prestige class! I do hope that it doesn't require dexterity 13 anymore, because my character would cry with his 9 (no way I'm going to spend two ASI to bump it) :P

Even so, just getting said runes (as the items) might sate my hopes for learning at least something about rune magic.

I really would've loved to see waterborne adventures, but I suppose Runes are a second best option for me.

Oh, and ofcourse I'll use the playable monsters in my homebrew campaign. At least the orcs, and let's see what else we'll get.

[Regitnui]

I'm intrigued and disappointed. I want to hold down Mike Mearls and scream at him "WE WANT OFFICAL EBERRON, GODSDAMMIT!", but the player options for goblins will work well in my Eberron campaign and new monsters are always welcome. I might pick up these books, if only to grab the new content, but by the Five Nations, Wizards, will it kill you to make Eberron, Dark Sun and Dragonlance official again? Please. Adventurer's League can keep trying to save the Sword Coast from the Monster of the Week, but can we just have a Settings Book? Use the World Serpent Inn as a framing device and let us wander through the other settings. Please!

[Arkhios]

I'm intrigued and disappointed. I want to hold down Mike Mearls and scream at him "WE WANT OFFICAL EBERRON, GODSDAMMIT!", but the player options for goblins will work well in my Eberron campaign and new monsters are always welcome. I might pick up these books, if only to grab the new content, but by the Five Nations, Wizards, will it kill you to make Eberron, Dark Sun and Dragonlance official again? Please. Adventurer's League can keep trying to save the Sword Coast from the Monster of the Week, but can we just have a Settings Book? Use the World Serpent Inn as a framing device and let us wander through the other settings. Please!

Amen on that.

[Steampunkette]

So... when is the next UA?

[Regitnui]

So... when is the next UA?

Someone was going to bring that up. Monday, I think. Maybe it'll.be more fulfilling than another FR adventure announcement. Bleh.

[Gastronomie]

Amen on that.Can't you re-use the info from older editions? I don't think there will be a major problem with that.

And I think that's what WotC is thinking anyways.

[Arkhios]

Can't you re-use the info from older editions? I don't think there will be a major problem with that.

And I think that's what WotC is thinking anyways.

The lore, sure, but as for now Artificer, warforged and shifters are in the limbo of UA, and thus not very solid for use, and they are kinda important for the Setting.

[Dragolord]

The lore, sure, but as for now Artificer, warforged and shifters are in the limbo of UA, and thus not very solid for use, and they are kinda important for the Setting.

Well, it isn't Psionic Viking Minotaur Pirates of the Dune Sea, or even normal Eberron, but the books look pretty good, even so.

[Regitnui]

Can't you re-use the info from older editions? I don't think there will be a major problem with that.

And I think that's what WotC is thinking anyways.

*hiss* Can't you use the older FR info?

Unlike Forgotten Realms, Eberron, Dark Sun and Krynn use different races and new mechanics. They need some updating to be truly playable, You can play a Realms game with the PHB alone, but Eberron needs full rules for changelings, shifters and warforged, along with an artificer. Dark Sun deserves full psionics rules, not just a half-class UA, and Krynn can play with dragons.

They've hinted at all of these settings multiple times, Eberron most of all; it was the first UA for Olladra's sake; but we keep getting setting-neutral or Forgotten Realms. I would gladly use the old Eberron lore from 3.5 if I could get some official race rules and an official artificer and some official sanction for DMs Guild Eberron material.

*takes a deep breath* Sorry, I was hoping i could avoid the all the bile built up from weeks of anticipation being disappointed.slipping out here. Gomenasai, sorry, and I really don't mean to offend anyone. I'm just disappointed. Don't build up excitement for what everyone already knows you're going to do. It just hurts the rest of us.

[Gastronomie]

The lore, sure, but as for now Artificer, warforged and shifters are in the limbo of UA, and thus not very solid for use, and they are kinda important for the Setting.Oh, true. I now understand.

[Arkhios]

There's also the arguable fact that dozens of Realms-literature figures have somewhat left their waterproof ink-stained mark upon the Realms. A mark not all of us are fans of. (Looking at several R.A.Salvatore characters, mainly the notorious Drizzt Do'Urden whose copies dot the genre wherever we look at. Dark elf renegades all over the place.) Official Eberron and the others would be welcome news(or oldies) from that.

[Gwendol]

I must say, this looks great! An adventure set on the sword coast fits nicely with the SCAG, and the guide to monsters will also be a much welcome addition!

[Regitnui]

There's also the arguable fact that dozens of Realms-literature figures have somewhat left their waterproof ink-stained mark upon the Realms. A mark not all of us are fans of. (Looking at several R.A.Salvatore characters, mainly the notorious Drizzt Do'Urden whose copies dot the genre wherever we look at. Dark elf renegades all over the place.) Official Eberron and the others would be welcome news(or oldies) from that.

Eberron is a world looking for heroes, Forgotten Realms is a world full of heroes already. I don't feel free enough to write a story in Forgotten Realms without stepping on Official Canon left and right. If drow show up in Eberron, you're going to have to deal with a tribe of scorpion-scarred Amazonian tribesmen. If drow show up in Forgotten Realms, you get asked if Drizz't is going to show up.

[Gwendol]

This is what has been confirmed about the adventure:
Chris Perkins Says:
•Giants!
•Set in the Forgotten Realms.
•Giant God breaks the “Ordening” breaking the social-racial structure of giantkind – unleashing the Giants upon the world.
•Characters play “small folk” (non-giants).
•Each faction of Giants sets out with their own agenda for power.
•There is a Giants vs Dragons sub-theme.
•Players can fight with, against, and even become giants themselves.

Book full of awesome I say!

[Arkhios]

This is what has been confirmed about the adventure:
Chris Perkins Says:
•Giants!
•Set in the Forgotten Realms.
•Giant God breaks the “Ordning” breaking the social-racial structure of giantkind – unleashing the Giants upon the world.
•Characters play “small folk” (non-giants).
•Each faction of Giants sets out with their own agenda for power.
•There is a Giants vs Dragons sub-theme.
•Players can fight with, against, and even become giants themselves.

Book full of awesome I say!

Just clarifying, The Ordning is not a typo. It's swedish word for order. It seems that giants are swedish. :D
Then again, I believe Jotunheim (where the Giants dwell in Norse mythology) is supposed to be somewhere in the Northern part of sweden and beyond.

[hymer]

a tribe of [...] Amazonian tribesmen.

wat

Anyway, I rarely use the official settings. But there's much more stuff from FR that I can use than from, say, Eberron, so for my personal uses I'm glad they're not doing any Eberron stuff. I wish they'd let us have those runes a little earlier. I'm planning a campaign to start this summer, and Rune Magic sounds like something I'd like to have in it from the beginning.


Just clarifying, The Ordning is not a typo. It's swedish word for order. It seems that giants are swedish. :D
Then again, I believe Jotunheim (where the Giants dwell in Norse mythology) is supposed to be somewhere in the Northern part of sweden and beyond.

Hey, hey, 'ordning' is like that in Danish and Norwegian, too. The names of the runes seem to point to Scandinavia in general, not Sweden (or Finalnd) in particular, I'd say. :smallwink:

[Anonymouswizard]

Actually really annoyed, I was like halfway to trying to run 5e again, guess it's time to get my old books and print off the Dark Sun stuff.


No big surprise on the adventure, but another FR focused splatbook? (MM2?) Meh

Can I join in on that meh? I really could not care about the Forgotten Realms, I've played Baldur's Gate and that was nice, but it's just a boring setting to me. Heck, my preferred 'medieval fantasy' setting is Birthright, and it's not like I'm going to see any official material for that.


Can't you re-use the info from older editions? I don't think there will be a major problem with that.

And I think that's what WotC is thinking anyways.

Okay, I want to play Dark Sun with 5e. For that I need a few things:
-Athasian subraces for elves, dwarves, halflings, as well as new races for Mulls and Thri-Kreen (however Half-Elves and Variant Humans are good enough as-is for me).
-Proper Psionics rules for players, even if it's just a bunch of feats that give wild talents.
-Rules for defiling. Preserving is just casting normally.
-An Arthasian Bard subclass for the rogue.
-A Templar class (until then I'll just use Warlock)

[hymer]

Okay, I want to play Dark Sun with 5e. For that I need a few things:
-Athasian subraces for elves, dwarves, halflings, as well as new races for Mulls and Thri-Kreen (however Half-Elves and Variant Humans are good enough as-is for me).
-Proper Psionics rules for players, even if it's just a bunch of feats that give wild talents.
-Rules for defiling. Preserving is just casting normally.
-An Arthasian Bard subclass for the rogue.
-A Templar class (until then I'll just use Warlock)

Sounds to me like about an afternoon's worth of homebrewing, followed by a few months of tweaking, as long as you are willing to snatch spells for psionic effects.

Edit: What I mean is, in the grand scheme of preparing a campaign, it sounds like a small fraction of the time you'll need to spend on it anyway.

[Waazraath]

If they continue to publish Forgotten Realms stuff, I´d really appreciate it if they´d publish a book on something like Zakhara (the old Al Qadim campaign of 2e). It's part of the Realms, but different enough to be a setting of its own. Other then 'more swordcoast'.

[Regitnui]

Sounds to me like about an afternoon's worth of homebrewing, followed by a few months of tweaking, as long as you are willing to snatch spells for psionic effects.

Edit: What I mean is, in the grand scheme of preparing a campaign, it sounds like a small fraction of the time you'll need to spend on it anyway.

How would you feel if you had to homebrew most of your campaign? I don't normally want to use homebrew and patchwork to hold together a campaign from an official source just because the people who own said source are more interested in pleasing the fanbase who's already had what they want.

Eberron was the first UA, which you think would encourage the notion that it was going to get some prominence in this edition. Nope, that's all you get. What do you mean you're unhappy? Look at all the happy faces of the Forgotten Realms fans. They're not complaining.

[Arkhios]

Hey, hey, 'ordning' is like that in Danish and Norwegian, too. The names of the runes seem to point to Scandinavia in general, not Sweden (or Finalnd) in particular, I'd say. :smallwink:

aaaaactually (excuse me for my pedantry): "Ordning" in danish is "Orden", "Ordning" in norwegian is either "Ordning" or "Orden" (both are used). Finnish language is not even of scandinavian origin, and not at all similar to any of them.
I wasn't claiming the runes would be finnish by any means, now was I? :)

So, technically, Giants are either swedish or norwegian in this regard, most likely a mix of scandinavian folk (excluding finns)

[hymer]

aaaaactually (excuse me for my pedantry): "Ordning" in danish is "Orden", "Ordning" in norwegian is either "Ordning" or "Orden" (both are used). Finnish language is not even of scandinavian origin, and not at all similar to any of them.
I wasn't claiming the runes would be finnish by any means, now was I? :)

So, technically, Giants are either swedish or norwegian in this regard, most likely a mix of scandinavian folk (excluding finns)

I'm a Dane, so there. :smalltongue: 'ordning' is a way to order things, an arrangement or tradition.

[Arkhios]

I'm a Dane, so there. :smalltongue: 'ordning' is a way to order things, an arrangement or tradition.

Well, in that case, my apologies. I was referring to dictionaries over the internet, and they seem to think that Ordning isn't danish. Weird?

[hymer]

How would you feel if you had to homebrew most of your campaign?

That's the way I usually do things, and I feel fine about it.

Anyway, pleasing the fanbase isn't exactly a company vice, now is it? As for UA: You seem to have misunderstood their intention. They threw you a bone, now you're baying for the roast. That'll teach them not to throw bones in the future! :smallwink:

I get that you're frustrated and/or angry. But no matter what they did, somebody would be annoyed that they didn't get what they were hoping for.


Well, in that case, my apologies. I was referring to dictionaries over the internet, and they seem to think that Ordning isn't danish. Weird?

No worries. :smallsmile: It's not exactly a big deal; the designers are probably not that linguistically consistent, anyway.

[Anonymouswizard]

Sounds to me like about an afternoon's worth of homebrewing, followed by a few months of tweaking, as long as you are willing to snatch spells for psionic effects.

Edit: What I mean is, in the grand scheme of preparing a campaign, it sounds like a small fraction of the time you'll need to spend on it anyway.

Yep, but why would I bother to do that when *shock* *horror* I can run it in 2e without homebrewing? If I want to run a D&D setting other than Forgotten Realms in 5e I run into 'well 2e/3.X/4e actually has the mechanics I need'.

Which is a real shame as 5e would be a great way to bring people into tabletop gaming for me, but I just can never find a reason to get over my initial feeling when running it and try again because I don't have support for anything I'd want to run with it. I'd run Dark Sun, but in 2e I don't have to homebrew all the character options. I'd run Birthright, but in 2e I don't have to homebrew realm management. I'd run one of my home settings, but I'd have to throw out at least 3 classes, change the magic system (probably to essentially just casters getting a load of cantrips), and add in more support for early firearms (of which I've only done to the point of two fighter subclasses, but not added feats or spells). Might as well just use what already supports it well.

EDIT: and to clarify, even though what I want is Dark Sun, I'd be happier to see Dragonlance than more Forgotten Realms stuff. I'd love to see some Eberron stuff, because I never got into it during the lifetime of 3.X and 5e and it sounds awesome. But support is literally 'FR, FR, now for something different a bit of FR, hey guys, you know psionics? Well FR, you want something different? Here's Ravenloft, now for some FR, FR, FR, FR, FR...' It's BORING.

[Gtdead]

This is me before the reveal: :smile:
This is me after: :frown:

[Regitnui]

I get that you're frustrated and/or angry. But no matter what they did, somebody would be annoyed that they didn't get what they were hoping for.

I could homebrew my setting and it could turn out great. But I would rather have a setting put together by professional designers and artists to play in. It would be great to hear what's taking them so long to build a setting that they already have most of the pieces for anyway. Eberron race UA, Psionics UA and all the lore from previous editions. Does the Artificer really take years to playtest when all they really need to do is refocus what they gave us in the UA?

It feels a lot like your favourite restaurant has promised something new and fantastic, and has been building up anticipation for this new and fantastic thing, and it turns out to be an offer for a free side of chips with every hamburger. It's not unwelcome, but I know you've put together a jumbo-sized rib burger special before, and you've got both burgers and deboned ribs on your menu. Why can't you just put them back together again?

:smallannoyed: I should stop thinking up analogies before lunch break.

[hymer]

@ Anonymouswizard & Regitnui: Well, you have my sympathy, little worth no doubt it is.

[JackPhoenix]

wat

This is the most commonly encountered Eberron drow culture: https://sites.google.com/site/dimitrizanella/drow_xendrik.jpg
Beside that, there's a bunch of secretive pyromaniacs with believes stolen from fire giants: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/46/72/78/467278b0ccdfff46e14b2cfb1226486a.jpg
And a culture most similar to FR drow, who fled underground, got stuck in a losing battle against aberrations and made a deal with an entity of living darkness called Umbra that changed them somewhat and gave them the power they need to fight (featured in D&D Dragonshard video game): https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/28/81/65/2881658bb401ab17268c53f1852c1971.jpg
Also, being turned into a drider looking like their goddess is a punishment? For Vulkoori, being turned into this: http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/eberron/images/4/44/Vulkoor.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20131105031842 is the highest possible reward.

Hey, hey, 'ordning' is like that in Danish and Norwegian, too. The names of the runes seem to point to Scandinavia in general, not Sweden (or Finalnd) in particular, I'd say. :smallwink:

Ordning is mentioned in giant's entry in MM

[Knaight]

So you are not going to get the new monster book, just because it's features FR stuff.

How is this unreasonable? It's an expensive book, if you're not big on the monsters it will have (the FR set), then it's a waste of money.

[Arkhios]

IIRC, there were mindflayers and beholders and varguilles and froghemots and whatever in Greyhawk as well. Chances are that those creatures could just as well be presented in other settings as well. Of course it's every DM's own prerogative to decide whether they'll use them or not, but IMHO, the more the merrier. 50 euros (give or take) for a "Monster Manual 2" isn't that bad.

And Storm King's Thunder... well, I'm pretty sure that as long as a setting has giant culture with their own gods, the adventure should be easily converted to any of those settings.

Frankly, the only reasons not to do either of the above I can honestly think of is being lazy and/or miserly.

(PS. Apologies if my forthrightness is offending.)

[hymer]

Ordning is mentioned in giant's entry in MM

Thanks for all the pics. :smallsmile: That wasn't what I was wat'ing about, though. Let me try to illustrate:


a tribe of [...] Amazonian tribesmen.


a tribe of [...] tribesmen.

As for the part I quoted you on: I knew that. I expect Arkhios did, too. What about it?

[Dragolord]

Does the Artificer really take years to playtest when all they really need to do is completely destroy and rebuild from scratch what they gave us in the UA?

Fixed that for you.

[Regitnui]

Amazonian in analogy; it's the closest thing I could think of to explain how the tribal drow live. Like the tribes in the Amazon Jungle.

[Gwendol]

The adventure will give us giants and rune magic, at least, and frost giants in longboats (?). That's enough for me to want to set up a Norse campaign.
Odin has gone missing, the Asa are in disarray, and giants roam Midgard. In the port town of Birka a motley crew is assembling...

[MrFahrenheit]

Excited for what's basically the MM2, but seconding the tiredness with FR this edition.

The only thing Krynn has that would need major mechanical tweaking in order to remain true to the setting is a much stronger yet more stringent magic system for wizards - rp aspects aside (i.e., robe colors, the Test and renegade casters), spells would have to be powered waaaaaay up, but quickly result in exhaustion.

For a minor mechanical tweak, you can always take the stout halfling, swap out the poison resist stuff for acrobatics and sleight of hand proficiencies, and boom, you have kender. For afflicted kender, replace those proficiencies with survival and insight.

[Gastronomie]

As far as I can see, the only thing people want for the other settings is the "5e conversions for the character races and classes", and not extra information about the setting itself.

If I were WotC I'd prolly go create something like "The Rules Guide to Pretty Much All the Official Settings Except the Forgotten Realms", which features just a brief explanation of each setting, plus the 5e conversions of the respective races and classes (and other quirks, such as how to edit monsters' abilities, or stuff like that) native to that setting.

At the same time I would go on to sell the previous editions' setting guides for really low prices as PDF files.

But I'm not WotC so it's prolly not happening.

[Steampunkette]

IIRC, there were mindflayers and beholders and varguilles and froghemots and whatever in Greyhawk as well. Chances are that those creatures could just as well be presented in other settings as well. Of course it's every DM's own prerogative to decide whether they'll use them or not, but IMHO, the more the merrier. 50 euros (give or take) for a "Monster Manual 2" isn't that bad.

And Storm King's Thunder... well, I'm pretty sure that as long as a setting has giant culture with their own gods, the adventure should be easily converted to any of those settings.

Frankly, the only reasons not to do either of the above I can honestly think of is being lazy and/or miserly.

(PS. Apologies if my forthrightness is offending.)

Worth Noting: The Giants work -great- for Eberron.

Just trade out Baldur's Gate and Waterdeep for Sharn and Wroat.

Hell, the Dragons playing into it also works well with Giants trying to reclaim their empires.

[Stan]

Even though I don't really play FR, I'm ok with FR focused books as that's the most popular setting. However, the description for Volo's Guide reads like it's mostly fluff for existing monsters with a handful of new monsters, and a couple of monsters turned into playable races, at $50 for 224 pages. For me, it would be probably 10 pages of useful material.

I remember many of the 2e products were marred by production teams who really wanted to be novelists. I hope this is going in that direction.

[DanyBallon]

Even though I don't really play FR, I'm ok with FR focused books as that's the most popular setting. However, the description for Volo's Guide reads like it's mostly fluff for existing monsters with a handful of new monsters, and a couple of monsters turned into playable races, at $50 for 224 pages. For me, it would be probably 10 pages of useful material.

I remember many of the 2e products were marred by production teams who really wanted to be novelists. I hope this is going in that direction.

I don't know how exact is that information, but there was some talk about dozens (even seen 100+) of new monsters. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[Steampunkette]

wI wasnt more than FR because what we got in 3e and 4e was FR and Eberron out the Yin Yang, a hint of Dark Sun, and a sprinkling of other settings. At least out of WotC.

Give us more flavors. I'm loving the Gothic Horror of Curse of Strahd, how about handing out some more of the Dread Realms? Flesh out Mordent and Dementlieu, or Darkon and Arak. It'll be great!

I'm just kind of saddened by how much the company relies on Standard Fantasy, which itself is an oxymoron that just feels oddly appropriate for the topic at hand.

[Mjolnirbear]

I wanted Psionics, Dark Sun, or Eberron. I figured I had good chances to get Psionics at least.

Giants can be cool but I'm tired of Forgotten Realms. Which is funny because I know more lorefor FR than any other setting... I guess familiarity breeds contempt.

[Stan]

At the same time I would go on to sell the previous editions' setting guides for really low prices as PDF files.

But I'm not WotC so it's prolly not happening.

They do that, though only moderately cheap. After a period of paranoia of online products, WOTC set up dndclassics with pdfs of all the old stuff. That's now bee rolled into dmsguild. Prices tend to be half of the book's retail, which is about the same as you can find them in used book stores.

[Dragolord]

Worth Noting: The Giants work -great- for Eberron.

Just trade out Baldur's Gate and Waterdeep for Sharn and Wroat.

Hell, the Dragons playing into it also works well with Giants trying to reclaim their empires.

If you insist on fitting the giants into Eberron, Stormreach would work far better, seeing as how it actually is canonically attacked by giants every now and then. Sharn is essentially impregnable, and Wroat is just too well-defended. I'm not sure exactly what you meant about the dragons, but Eberron's would just commit near-genocide if the Giants ever got too powerful, just like they did before the Age of Monsters.

[Anonymouswizard]

If I were WotC I'd prolly go create something like "The Rules Guide to Pretty Much All the Official Settings Except the Forgotten Realms", which features just a brief explanation of each setting, plus the 5e conversions of the respective races and classes (and other quirks, such as how to edit monsters' abilities, or stuff like that) native to that setting.

I did suggest this earlier in the thread. It won't be great for all the new players WotC hopes to attract, but it would get a lot of us to stop whining and begin playing in our favourite settings.


They do that, though only moderately cheap. After a period of paranoia of online products, WOTC set up dndclassics with pdfs of all the old stuff. That's now bee rolled into dmsguild. Prices tend to be half of the book's retail, which is about the same as you can find them in used book stores.

Depends on the store, I managed to pick up the 2e PhB and DMG for about £5 for the pair. I do like that WotC decided to make it feasible to buy the Dark Sun boxed set though.

[Belac93]

I did suggest this earlier in the thread. It won't be great for all the new players WotC hopes to attract, but it would get a lot of us to stop whining and begin playing in our favourite settings.

Exactly. If they could make a 243 page long book, with Dark Sun, Eberron, and Planescape, 81 pages for each, 10-15 pages of mechanics, I'd be happy.

I must say, while I probably will not get the adventure, I'm going to get Volo's guide. I'm getting tired of the same old monsters all the time, and besides UA, we've only had the Aasimar, Goliath, Aarakocra, and Genasi as our non-core races. So, a decent race, a 'good twin' to an already existing race, an overpowered race, and an under powered race.

And this sounds like its going to add at least 4 more. Note the wording where it says: 'includes,' and then lists 3. Seems like it'll be about 5 races.

[DireSickFish]

I'm very excited for Volo's guide and not very excited for another pre-made adventure. Not that pre-made adventures are bad for the game, I just prefer to run my own stuff. I'm betting Kobolds aren't in Volo's guide as a playable race. They're popular enough that if they were they'd be in the note. Most likely saving them for a Dragon themed splatbook. The splatbooks this edition seem to be more combo lorebook and splatbook than in 3.5, which is a boon.

I play mostly FR anyway so I'm not feeling the hatred for another FR book coming out. Volo was hilarious back in the day and I hope they bring a good sense of humor to it. I would get a book for another setting if it had good rule info I could use like more monsters/classes/races.


, we've only had the Aasimar, Goliath, Aarakocra, and Genasi as our non-core races. So, a decent race, a 'good twin' to an already existing race, an overpowered race, and an under powered race.


Which race is underpowerd? I'm assuming Aasimar as the "good twin" and Aarakocra as overpowerd. Kinda surprised anyone would find Goliaths or Genasi underpowerd.

[JumboWheat01]

If they continue to publish Forgotten Realms stuff, I´d really appreciate it if they´d publish a book on something like Zakhara (the old Al Qadim campaign of 2e). It's part of the Realms, but different enough to be a setting of its own. Other then 'more swordcoast'.

This is true. I might be a little less meh on the whole deal if there was more than the Sword Coast. Which it is, and I've played enough video games set in it. I saw a map, either here or on Beamdog's Baldur's Gate EE forums, of Faerun, and it's flippin' huge. There's just so much of it that could be used as a setting for something, but they almost always seem to default to the Sword Coast. Familiarity is starting to breed contempt.

[Anonymouswizard]

I play mostly FR anyway so I'm not feeling the hatred for another FR book coming out. Volo was hilarious back in the day and I hope they bring a good sense of humor to it. I would get a book for another setting if it had good rule info I could use like more monsters/classes/races.

Okay, now imagine that every splatbook was about 80% lore and only 20% rules. Now imagine that every single splatbook was for Eberron. Now, in this alternative world Forgotten Realms got the first Unearthed Arcana detailing some of it's rarer or more unique races and the bladesinger wizard tradition, and then has nothing released for it since.

That's sort of how some of us feel about the current splatbooks. I don't want to buy the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide because I just do not need the fluff. If WotC released a 'discount' pdf with all the rules parts and none of the fluff for £10 (about $15) would I buy it? Probably, I want to support 5e, it's just not giving me anything I want to spend my money on.


This is true. I might be a little less meh on the whole deal if there was more than the Sword Coast. Which it is, and I've played enough video games set in it. I saw a map, either here or on Beamdog's Baldur's Gate EE forums, of Faerun, and it's flippin' huge. There's just so much of it that could be used as a setting for something, but they almost always seem to default to the Sword Coast. Familiarity is starting to breed contempt.

Here's what I'd like to see released: a Persian or Mongols setting for 5e. Heck, I wouldn't mind learning a new system if anybody can point me towards one designed for such a setting (including thematic magic, of course), but a professionally designed setting for 5e with Jassinaries and Djinn would make me start giving WotC more money again. But if I wanted a European Fantasy setting I'm able to pick up several just by browsing through DM's Guild, I don't see the reason for all this Sword Coast support (which is really what has got me annoyed, I don't care about the Realms but do want a nonstandard setting).

[INDYSTAR188]

I'm moderately excited at the announcement. I already own Rise of Tiamet and Rage of Demons so I wouldn't be able to run the Giants adventure for a long time. I like the Forgotten Realms a lot and it's primarily where my love of D&D started. Having said that, I was really hoping to get official products of other settings (especially Eberron). I remember reading somewhere that FR was the "default" setting for 5E as opposed to a generic one like in 4E, so maybe this is how they're going to release all modules this edition (I hope not)? Volo's guide is exciting because I love the monster lore and the narrative notes listed in the MM are fantastic so hopefully it will be like that. Also, it seems to me most of the monsters probably will not be FR exclusive so its not like the product won't be useful for other settings.

[Belac93]

Which race is underpowerd? I'm assuming Aasimar as the "good twin" and Aarakocra as overpowerd. Kinda surprised anyone would find Goliaths or Genasi underpowerd.

I find most Genasi a little lackluster. Fire is alright, and water can be good in the right game, but I find air boring and earth even more boring.

[Oramac]

While I admit I'm a little disappointed that there's no major class options, and I don't much care for playable monsters, I am excited for the Storm King adventure.

Being a relatively new D&D player (I started with 5e), I've never really set foot anywhere other than FR. So not having other settings doesn't really bother me. I guess because FR is still new enough to be exciting and interesting.

[DireSickFish]

I find most Genasi a little lackluster. Fire is alright, and water can be good in the right game, but I find air boring and earth even more boring.

Cool, was curious.


I understand the hate for all the FR stuff coming out. It would be very frustrating if a bunch of stuff for a setting I didn't like was coming out and I had to cut the rules out of it like a backwoods heart surgeon. But I don't have to to heart surgery so I'm alright.

That said I do want to learn about the other realms and did find the Eberon UA stuff to be the most interesting they've released thus far. Had plans to turn all my players into Warforged but they circumvented those plans.

[INDYSTAR188]

While I admit I'm a little disappointed that there's no major class options, and I don't much care for playable monsters, I am excited for the Storm King adventure.

Being a relatively new D&D player (I started with 5e), I've never really set foot anywhere other than FR. So not having other settings doesn't really bother me. I guess because FR is still new enough to be exciting and interesting.

I think FR is big enough with enough variation in fluff from various regions to accommodate most game themes and story preferences. For folks who don't like the pervasive amount of FR npc's everywhere, I wonder what the 'in-setting' timeline is and if most of those characters aren't gone?

*edit* You can of course just not use those npc's in your version of the realms but that creates its own awkwardness. I played in a SAGAs game once where we met Luke Skywalker and fled from Vader. Having them in the story was cool for me but I can see how using them takes some of the awesomeness from the PC's too.

[Regitnui]

I don't want to buy the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide because I just do not need the fluff.

I don't want to say that the SCAG and EEPC are useless. There's good stuff in both of those for Eberron with refluffing. Just as an example of what I'm using from both of those books, excepting spells;

Goliaths: They're a great stand-in for Eneko; half-giant half-ogres from Sarlona. In fact, I've already retconned them; eneko are what they call themselves and are called back in Syrkarn, Sarlona, and the Khorvairans call them Goliaths. It's a great fit for the race, better than 3.5's "oh, they live in mountains somewhere" explanation.

Genasi: The continent of Sarlona is periodically hit by aukaraks or "reality storms", great moving planar disturbances that can summon extraplanar creatures. Humans affected by these could, over generations, become genasi without ever needing to get the genies involved. Wild Zones are stable 'holes' between Sarlona and the various planes, and another potential origin point for these changed humans.

Battlerager Barbarian: Remember the Warforged Titan prestige class from 3.5? It too had spikes growing out of your warforged's armour as they became less 'living' and more 'construct'.

Arcana Domain Cleric; Aureon and the Shadow are both Gods of Magic; one of magic used for good, the other for evil. This is their domain.

Purple Dragon KnightBanneret: Rekkenmark Academy turns out the best generals and now, you have a subclass for your advanced training at the best military academy on the continent. Pity both the names are kinda dumb.

Long Death and Sun Soul monks: The Mockery is the Sovereign of Treachery and winning at all costs. He's got an order of monks dedicated to him named the Order of Flayed Skin. Hello, Long Death Monk. His sister; Dol Arrah; champions the light. Both her worshippers and the Silver Flame can count Sun Soul monks among their ranks.

Oath of the Crown Paladin; the Karrnathi leaders are called Warlords, and each rules their little patch of soil like a king in their own right. What holds them together? The Oath they made to Kaius III, of course.

Mastermind Rogue: Say hello to Houses Phiarlan and Thuranni's favourite class, other than the Assassin Rogue. Actors, artists, sculptors, and the premier espionage agencies in Khorvaire. This is entirely within their field.of expertise, never mind the King's Dark Lanterns of Breland and the other spy agencies in the Five Nations...

Swashbuckler Rogue: Lhazaar pirates ahoy! Or any number of foppish noble duelists on the mainland, i guess.

Storm Sorcerer: House Lyrandar possesses the Mark of... Wait for it...

Undying Patron Warlock: Again with the elves! Aereni elves practice 'positive energy necromancy' resurrecting their best and brightest to the Undying Court. Never mind that Erandis Vol is likely amongst the oldest liches on the planet, and it's quite possible she can share how to tap into a dark side of the elven necromantic traditions...

Bladesinger Wizards: Who's gonna fight for Aundair's freedom? Nuktuk! And the bladesingers. Of all the Five Nations specialities; Thrane's faith, Karrnath's military, Breland's industry, Cyre's non-existing; it's Aundair which produces the best and greatest wizards. Bladesingers are their frontline fighters, alongside less mobile Knights Arcane and stealthy Arcane Tricksters...

So none of the splats we've gotten so far are useless for Eberron devotees. We're just wanting our changelings, shifters and warforged finalized. We don't even need the artificer compared to the races, since there are great examples of that class up on the DMs Guild. I use one made by a "Johnny Tek", which besides the Magic Gunslinger *twitch* subclass, is fantastic for Eberron. Battleforge Smiths for House Cannith and Renegade Mastermakers, Eldritch Alchemists are (again) House Cannith's Alchemist Savants, and the Runic Golemancers practice the ancient art of elemental binding, even if they can't quite pull it off to the level of the Zilargo gnomes and their Power of Purity binders

[Waazraath]

Here's what I'd like to see released: a Persian or Mongols setting for 5e. Heck, I wouldn't mind learning a new system if anybody can point me towards one designed for such a setting (including thematic magic, of course), but a professionally designed setting for 5e with Jassinaries and Djinn would make me start giving WotC more money again. But if I wanted a European Fantasy setting I'm able to pick up several just by browsing through DM's Guild, I don't see the reason for all this Sword Coast support (which is really what has got me annoyed, I don't care about the Realms but do want a nonstandard setting).

Isn't Al Qadim what you are looking for then? At least for the persian part of the setting. On enworld, somebody made a conversion: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?358985-Al-Qadim-Land-of-Fate-%285e-conversion%29

[Dragolord]

WALL OF TEXT.

Very few of those points make any sense, even in terms of fluff. You'd replace the Mark of Storm by making every other half-elf a high-level sorcerer? You'd just add a whole race of planar-descended beings into a setting with incredibly little cross-planar activity? You'd make every Aerenal elf a Warlock? Really?

[JackPhoenix]

Very few of those points make any sense, even in terms of fluff. You'd replace the Mark of Storm by making every other half-elf a high-level sorcerer? You'd just add a whole race of planar-descended beings into a setting with incredibly little cross-planar activity? You'd make every Aerenal elf a Warlock? Really?

What gave you that idea? He just wrote way where SCAG and EEPC options fit with Eberron. Mark of Storm is still Mark of Storm...but Storm Sorcerers would most likely be half-elves bearing one in Eberron.

Eberron already has a ton of plane-influenced beings... Kalashtar with Quori, Tieflings from Demon Wastes and Ohr Kaluum, even elves originaly came from Thelanis, if you consider Keith Baker's Fading Dream novel (and 4e) canon. It's even easier in Eberron, where you can be end up as air genasi simply from being born in a manifest zone (say, Sharn) or as tiefling by having your mother walk above Overlord's prison during pregnancy. If anything, planes have higher influence on Eberron than in most other settings.

And not every Aerenal elf is an Undying Warlock, but most Undying Warlocks would be from Aerenal. Hell, it's even suggested in SCAG itself:
The elves of Aerenal are an ideal match for the Undying. Some of these elves enter pacts with their deathless ancestors, pledging service and obedience in return for ancient secrets of the elves that unlock magical powers, as well as mastery over the undead.

[Regitnui]

...Storm.


Very few of those points make any sense, even in terms of fluff. You'd replace the Mark of Storm by making every other half-elf a high-level sorcerer? You'd just add a whole race of planar-descended beings into a setting with incredibly little cross-planar activity? You'd make every Aerenal elf a Warlock? Really?

Wait, what?

House Lyrandar would include storm sorcerers. I have added a planar-descended race to a setting with a lot of cross-planar "bleeding". I'd make the Undying Patron Warlock originate in Aerenal. Where's all of this "every" and "replace" coming from? I was only making the point that a lot of the stuff we've been given so far can be used in Eberron.

Re: Genasi: Risia, and Fernia are planes of Ice and Fire respectively. This is fact.

Sarlona contains Wild Zones; regions where the planes and Material bleed into each other; a salamander (for example) can appear in a Fernia wild zone without interplanar magic. Fact #2.

Sarlona is positively riddled with wild zones. Fact #3

So how is it violently unplausible to you that humans could be altered by the presence of these wild zones to become genasi?

Edit: Ninja'd. Thanks, JackPhoenix!

[Dragolord]

...Storm.



Wait, what?

House Lyrandar would include storm sorcerers. I have added a planar-descended race to a setting with a lot of cross-planar "bleeding". I'd make the Undying Patron Warlock originate in Aerenal. Where's all of this "every" and "replace" coming from? I was only making the point that a lot of the stuff we've been given so far can be used in Eberron.

Re: Genasi: Risia, and Fernia are planes of Ice and Fire respectively. This is fact.

Sarlona contains Wild Zones; regions where the planes and Material bleed into each other; a salamander (for example) can appear in a Fernia wild zone without interplanar magic. Fact #2.

Sarlona is positively riddled with wild zones. Fact #3

So how is it violently unplausible to you that humans could be altered by the presence of these wild zones to become genasi?

Edit: Ninja'd. Thanks, JackPhoenix!

I certainly didn't mean to come off as violent, or more than slightly rude, even. I apologise if I did. You just made it sound an awful lot like fiddling with the rarity of PC classes, which is an integral part of the setting, and making everything too generic. I have a feeling that the Inspired wouldn't take too kindly to what they would no doubt see as other planes intruding on their territory, anyway, so there would hardly be large numbers of Genasi running around. And besides, adding Genasi, plausibility notwithstanding, wouldn't be fitting 5e to Eberron. You'd be fitting Eberron to 5e, which is not the point. Just because everything can have a place in Eberron doesn't mean that it necessary should.

[INDYSTAR188]

I certainly didn't mean to come off as violent, or more than slightly rude, even. I apologise if I did. You just made it sound an awful lot like fiddling with the rarity of PC classes, which is an integral part of the setting, and making everything too generic. I have a feeling that the Inspired wouldn't take too kindly to what they would no doubt see as other planes intruding on their territory, anyway, so there would hardly be large numbers of Genasi running around. And besides, adding Genasi, plausibility notwithstanding, wouldn't be fitting 5e to Eberron. You'd be fitting Eberron to 5e, which is not the point. Just because everything can have a place in Eberron doesn't mean that it necessary should.

For what it's worth, I didn't think you came off as rude. The one major skill I learned DMing 4E is that you can take mechanics you like/think are appropriate and just re-flavor them however you want. For me that's usually taking X monster's stat block and saying its Y monster instead. I think he was essentially doing the same thing with published material.

[Regitnui]

I certainly didn't mean to come off as violent, or more than slightly rude, even. I apologise if I did. You just made it sound an awful lot like fiddling with the rarity of PC classes, which is an integral part of the setting, and making everything too generic. I have a feeling that the Inspired wouldn't take too kindly to what they would no doubt see as other planes intruding on their territory, anyway, so there would hardly be large numbers of Genasi running around. And besides, adding Genasi, plausibility notwithstanding, wouldn't be fitting 5e to Eberron. You'd be fitting Eberron to 5e, which is not the point. Just because everything can have a place in Eberron doesn't mean that it necessary should.

Oh, no. Most NPCs in Eberron would be just stat blocks. An adept, magewright and all the boxes in the MM would suffice for pretty much everyone. And even those who do have a PC class wouldn't be over level 10. I've started out most of the Lhazaar princes at about 7th-9th level. The PCs are exceptional, and they should feel it.

The Inspired don't take kindly to the Wild Zones and aukaraks. They've got a special branch of the military called Edgewalkers specifically trained to deal with those sorts of things. Edgewalkers are practically Navy Seals or SAS in that country. Aukaraks are one of the main reasons why the Tashana Tundra stays independent. Sovereigns know that the Inspired can barely handle immobile wild zones, let alone the highly mobile and unpredictable reality storms.

Any genasi alive now would be descendants of the poor blokes who got changed before the Unification. I think most of them would be living in Syrkarn and Adar, to the south of Riedra, so they're doubly Somebody Else's Problem as far as the Riedrans are concerned. Whether the Inspired put them above or below humans in the Path of Inspiration is the more difficult question. Shifters and ogre mages are below, changelings and Inspired are above...

[DireSickFish]

It would be nice to see more NPC stat blocks. Thugs and such are great but I'm recycling so many of the same ones to get the right CR opponents. I hope they have some new ones in Volo's guide.

[T.G. Oskar]

Goliaths: They're a great stand-in for Eneko; half-giant half-ogres from Sarlona. In fact, I've already retconned them; eneko are what they call themselves and are called back in Syrkarn, Sarlona, and the Khorvairans call them Goliaths. It's a great fit for the race, better than 3.5's "oh, they live in mountains somewhere" explanation.

I'd prefer to have a proper Half-Giant race and have the Eneko work somewhat like the variant Tieflings or the Revenants. It makes a better fit, and since Half-Giants are naturally psionic (something Eberron has as part of its system but that 5e has only started to address with the Mystic), refluffing them to be alternate Goliaths just flies in the face of the race (particularly since they're immigrants from Dark Sun, another heavy-psionics setting). I don't intend to see a return of "4e Half-Giant is Goliaths!".


Purple Dragon Knight Banneret: Rekkenmark Academy turns out the best generals and now, you have a subclass for your advanced training at the best military academy on the continent. Pity both the names are kinda dumb.

If that's the only thing you're protesting at (again, it's not refluffing two distinct races just because they're somewhat mechanically similar)...

I'd say that Banneret can go a bit further. I find Banneret to be closer to a Warlord/Marshal than something with a forced Rekkenmark fluff.


Oath of the Crown Paladin; the Karrnathi leaders are called Warlords, and each rules their little patch of soil like a king in their own right. What holds them together? The Oath they made to Kaius III, of course.

I recall one of the NPCs from Thrane being split between its devotion to the Silver Flame and his loyalty (and love) towards the deposed Queen Diane (sp?). He's Oath of the Crown, no questions about it. Karrnathi Warlords don't necessarily have to be Paladins; they can be Bannerets, after all.

Oath of the Crown doesn't have to be bound to a specific area, much like Banneret doesn't have to be bound either. Every nation can have its own variant. I mean, you could have Bannerets and Oath of the Crown Paladins even in Darguun, where they'd be elite generals and knights sworn to the Llesh Haruuc, respectively.


Storm Sorcerer: House Lyrandar possesses the Mark of... Wait for it...

Mark of Air? :P

It's not just limited to Lyrandar children; the Lhazaar Principalities might also have Storm Sorcerers by the bucketload. It'd be fun to see a Storm Sorcerer with the Mark of Storm, tho. Lyrandar might also have Tempest Clerics around.


Bladesinger Wizards: Who's gonna fight for Aundair's freedom? Nuktuk! And the bladesingers. Of all the Five Nations specialities; Thrane's faith, Karrnath's military, Breland's industry, Cyre's non-existing; it's Aundair which produces the best and greatest wizards. Bladesingers are their frontline fighters, alongside less mobile Knights Arcane and stealthy Arcane Tricksters...

Traditionally, Bladesingers have usually been of Elvish origin, so I'd peg them down to an Aereni discipline, which eventually bled/was rediscovered by Aundairians (they do love their duels, so an arcane duelist fluffed like a Bladesinger could work nicely). As for being Frontliners...Eldritch Knight better fits their proud main frontline unit, particularly if they choose Phantom Steed, Blur and Blink as part of their spell lists in one way or another (Knight Phantom, ahoy!)


So none of the splats we've gotten so far are useless for Eberron devotees. We're just wanting our changelings, shifters and warforged finalized. We don't even need the artificer compared to the races, since there are great examples of that class up on the DMs Guild. I use one made by a "Johnny Tek", which besides the Magic Gunslinger *twitch* subclass, is fantastic for Eberron. Battleforge Smiths for House Cannith and Renegade Mastermakers, Eldritch Alchemists are (again) House Cannith's Alchemist Savants, and the Runic Golemancers practice the ancient art of elemental binding, even if they can't quite pull it off to the level of the Zilargo gnomes and their Power of Purity binders

So far, I agree that refluffing could be useful in most occasions (barring the Eneko being tied to Goliaths for the lack of Half-Giants), but here, I must wholeheartedly dissent.

Artificers MUST be done officially, at least as an Eberron-specific class. Their attempt to do that via School of Wizardry just flies in the face of what they could do, and what they were meant to be. I know that 5e is trying to distance itself a bit from magic item crafting by making it intentionally vague, but the stunt they pulled with the Warlock (adding both Invocations and regular spells via Pact Magic) does mean they can tweak the system a bit to introduce a proper Artificer class. The way Infusions work is far beyond what spells can do, as they're both limited and flexible at the same time. The school basically added a few things to Wizards to make some temporary items, which, once again, doesn't really fit the class - it was the Infusions that made them, and their Infusions were more "magical temporary mods to items" than actual spells. No manner of refluffing will help that, not even dragging out the Player's Option: Skills & Powers book for magic school specializations.

...Which reminds me, they should pull off that book for more Old-School reworks for Wizards. Geometers and Song Wizards...

[Regitnui]

T.G. Oskar, none of those were meant to be definitive. It was half remembering the SCAG and half making stuff up. There's plenty of room for all of that in multiple places.

Eneko aren't half-giants. They're a crossbreed between giants and ogres/ogre mages. Half-giants are a completely different creature. Eneko were originally unique to the setting, introduced in Secrets of Sarlona as an option for campaigns taking place on the other side of the Sea of Rage. Since my campaign takes place in the Lhazaar Principalities in a town with a large immigrant population (Syrk and Adaran mostly) I figured I'd offer two non-core races to highlight the exotic nature of Sarlona. The goliaths fit the role of eneko, so I equated them. I have a different solution for half-giants, when they come up.

[Gwendol]

From the box of miniatures it looks like the Thri-Kreen will be playing a part.

[Knaight]

Amazonian in analogy; it's the closest thing I could think of to explain how the tribal drow live. Like the tribes in the Amazon Jungle.

I'm pretty sure the confusion here was that people were thinking of the greek Amazon myth, for which the term "tribesman" is a bit unusual.

[EvanescentHero]

I'm pretty sure the confusion here was that people were thinking of the greek Amazon myth, for which the term "tribesman" is a bit unusual.

No, I think the confusing was the use of the suffix "man" in particular, since the Amazons were ladies.

My apologies if that's what you meant.

[Knaight]

No, I think the confusing was the use of the suffix "man" in particular, since the Amazons were ladies.

My apologies if that's what you meant.

"The Amazons were ladies" is a thing that applies to the mythical Greek Amazons. In the context of the cultures in the Amazon Rainforest, approximately 50% of them are women, and that's what was being talked about.

[SharkForce]

based on the later explanation, i think it was that they were described as being tribes of tribesman. which is redundant. could be wrong, of course.

[T.G. Oskar]

Eneko aren't half-giants. They're a crossbreed between giants and ogres/ogre mages. Half-giants are a completely different creature. Eneko were originally unique to the setting, introduced in Secrets of Sarlona as an option for campaigns taking place on the other side of the Sea of Rage. Since my campaign takes place in the Lhazaar Principalities in a town with a large immigrant population (Syrk and Adaran mostly) I figured I'd offer two non-core races to highlight the exotic nature of Sarlona. The goliaths fit the role of eneko, so I equated them. I have a different solution for half-giants, when they come up.

I dunno, but that sounded as if I didn't knew about Eneko, about Sarlona, about the setting itself.

First and foremost, in Eberron, both Half-Giants and Eneko hail from Sarlona; this is a sort of plot-hole, since Giants are native to Xen'drik, but are more numerous on the place where humans actually hail from. Secrets of Sarlona does mention a tie between Half-Giants and the giants from Xen'drik. Eneko, on the other hand? Offspring between half-giants and ogres. That's one point where Eneko as Half-Giant offspring works well.

The second is mechanical. Both are (or were) of the Giant type, boosting Strength and Constitution, and have Powerful Build as a racial feature. Their main differences involve their racial resistance (poison vs. fire) and their focus on magic (Eneko) vs. psionics (Half-Giant). Mechanically, making an Eneko the equivalent of a variant Tiefling or what they did to the Revenant, and it'd fit.

So, mechanically and lore-wise, Eneko are closer to Half-Giants than to Goliath. I can understand using Goliath for purposes of not having Half-Giants, but IMO a direct translation of Half-Giants and having Eneko as a subrace fits in better.

[Regitnui]

So, mechanically and lore-wise, Eneko are closer to Half-Giants than to Goliath. I can understand using Goliath for purposes of not having Half-Giants, but IMO a direct translation of Half-Giants and having Eneko as a subrace fits in better.

It sounded like you were objecting to goliaths replacing eneko because half-giants. Half-giants themselves are a bit of a question (the mechanics make my brain hurt), and seem only to be included because they are in the EPH as opposed to having any natural reason to be there; you yourself said that half-giants' existence on Sarlona instead of Xen'drik is odd.

The kalashtar and Inspired are integral to the modern story of the continent, but before them, Sarlona wasn't full of psionics, so it makes more sense that the races there aren't naturally psionic; it's been forced onto them by the Inspired machinations. Eneko as Goliaths makes an interesting and plausible substitute for a Dark Sun race being forced into a setting. If you're going to crossbreed giants with another race, have it be a race near their size.

The civilized ogres of Borunan (the kingdom) would be the perfect origin for the goliaths via 'giant explorers' instead of half-giants. Half-giants are bit like a elf and a gnome having children; there's a bit of a size disparity. Eneko, being the slightly smaller (goliath) crossbreeding of two Large races makes more sense. Goliaths are a great playable version of that concept.

Tl;dr. Eneko are a better fit for the setting than half-giants. Goliaths are good approximations of eneko. Half-giants don't exist in my Eberron. Play a goliath mystic instead.

[Arkhios]

Chiming back on the Eneko thing. While I'm not that familiar with deep Eberron lore, judging from the description of being a crossbreed between giants and ogres/ogre mages (also known as Oni), both of which are at minimum of Large size, it would seem that Firbolg would be a lot more accurate base for Eneko than Goliaths. Goliaths might be tall, but they're still considered medium. Once Volo's Guide to Monsters comes out, we'll have access to a playable large race (most likely, unless they're going to shrink Firbolg to being medium sized, which would be lame).

[Regitnui]

Chiming back on the Eneko thing. While I'm not that familiar with deep Eberron lore, judging from the description of being a crossbreed between giants and ogres/ogre mages (also known as Oni), both of which are at minimum of Large size, it would seem that Firbolg would be a lot more accurate base for Eneko than Goliaths. Goliaths might be tall, but they're still considered medium. Once Volo's Guide to Monsters comes out, we'll have access to a playable large race (most likely, unless they're going to shrink Firbolg to being medium sized, which would be lame).

Well, until then, goliaths will do. I am looking forward to the monster book.

[T.G. Oskar]

It sounded like you were objecting to goliaths replacing eneko because half-giants. Half-giants themselves are a bit of a question (the mechanics make my brain hurt), and seem only to be included because they are in the EPH as opposed to having any natural reason to be there; you yourself said that half-giants' existence on Sarlona instead of Xen'drik is odd.

The kalashtar and Inspired are integral to the modern story of the continent, but before them, Sarlona wasn't full of psionics, so it makes more sense that the races there aren't naturally psionic; it's been forced onto them by the Inspired machinations. Eneko as Goliaths makes an interesting and plausible substitute for a Dark Sun race being forced into a setting. If you're going to crossbreed giants with another race, have it be a race near their size.

The civilized ogres of Borunan (the kingdom) would be the perfect origin for the goliaths via 'giant explorers' instead of half-giants. Half-giants are bit like a elf and a gnome having children; there's a bit of a size disparity. Eneko, being the slightly smaller (goliath) crossbreeding of two Large races makes more sense. Goliaths are a great playable version of that concept.

Tl;dr. Eneko are a better fit for the setting than half-giants. Goliaths are good approximations of eneko. Half-giants don't exist in my Eberron. Play a goliath mystic instead.

Actually, I object. Do note that Half-Giants are immigrants from Dark Sun, as I mentioned, and already had their psionic potential ingrained - in fact, their resistance to fire comes from Athas being essentially a desert Material Plane, so resistance to heat would be a welcome advantage. They happen to appear in the XPH because pretty much all of Dark Sun's races are part of the XPH (see: Thri-Kreen).

I did mention that their existence is odd, but it seems to have some grounding on the lore. First, half-giants are known to be the descendants of Xen'drik giant explorers; that is the given explanation in Secrets of Sarlona. Second, giants in Eberron were known for using magic, yes, but they also fought with the Quori, which come from Dal Quor, the main source of psionic power on Eberron (a minor source is Xoriat, since the Daelkyr created most of the creatures that are often associated with psionics, such as the Illithid and the Aboleth), so it's understandable that there may be some psionic corruption. Psionics in Eberron isn't a recent development; you do mention that psionics in Sarlona are, but it's less "psionics began here now" and more "psionics are far more developed here now than in other places", if you consider Xen'drik has a wealth of treasures from the Age of Giants that are related to the Quori (the Warforged, in principle, have ties to the Quori after all). Psionics in Sarlona aren't exactly specifically "Inspired machinations" - Adar is a great example, as it was there where the Kalashtar first appeared (as the first rebel Quori bound with the monks of Adar and distilled themselves to ensure their survival and halt the plans of the Dreaming Dark to stop the incoming turn of Dal Quor's "zeitgeist", so to say). It's reasonable to say that humans were the ones with psionic potential (after all, while the Chosen have elvish and fiendish traits, they're primarily human), so it doesn't have to be that strange that half-giants have psionic potential.

It shouldn't be rare that half-giants actually descend from giants, either. Some of the Giant magic actually involved reducing their size to be more manageable, and these are the primordial Giants of the age of Giants, or their descendants at the beginning of Giantish decadence after the Age of Giants ended. Secrets of Sarlona can be as vague as this edition in some things, but it's pretty clear in others.

The problem I find is twofold: one is how it clashes with the established lore and the other how it resembles what the developers did to Half-Giants in 4e, where they were refluffed Goliaths (something I consider a foul move). The reason I say "I understand why..." is because I figured it'd be easier for you to do the change in your setting (the last sentence of your post illustrates that - in your setting, since Half-Giants aren't there, they don't exist, and since Eneko are native to Eberron, you're using Goliaths as a mechanical alternative, or at least a way to replace the giant side of the crossbreed), but that doesn't mean I'll agree. Quite the contrary; as I mentioned when I began writing, I strongly oppose this on mechanical and lore grounds, the latter being more important than the former. Eneko, straight from the edition that spawned them, were always the crossbreed of Half-Giants and Ogres/Ogre Magi; Goliath apparently hail from Xen'drik as well, but migrated to Khorvaire, rather than Sarlona. So, going by established lore, Eneko being the crossbreed of a Goliath and an Ogre/Ogre Magi/Oni is implausible, compared to a Half-Giant which is a) established to exist in Eberron; b) established to be one of the parent races of the Eneko; c) established to be native to Sarlona, unlike the Goliath. As for the second leg - I have to agree with a friend of mine, a sworn fan of Half-Giants, that refluffing Goliaths as them was a foul move, but that's a question of taste.

On your campaign, I can't debate that - it's your world, and Eberron is designed to be altered to suit the needs of the DM. However, it's something unsupported by lore, at least judging by established lore from 3.5, which was the spawning point of the Eberron campaign setting. Lore-wise, Half-Giants are a better fit for Eneko; mechanically, there is no Half-Giant, which is where the problem lies, but it shouldn't be so difficult to work. In your case, following 4e, you chose the Goliath as the mechanical representative, and ignored the Half-Giant as a whole, setting Eneko to be descendants of Half-Giants; in my case, I'd rather wait for Half-Giants to appear officially, or do a "middle-ground" approach - use the Powerful Build stats of the Goliath, but otherwise translate Half-Giant stats straight from 3.5 (+2 Strength, +1 Constitution, advantage on saves vs. fire; the 1/day Stomp effect is harder to translate but not impossible), and then work Eneko as a variant Half-Giant that has Eneko Magic and the Dwarf's racial resistance to poison/advantage on poison saves instead of the Stomp and the advantage on saves, respectively. Less simple, probably less elegant, but fits lore as it should be.

[Regitnui]

Sorry, what was the goliath race's place in 3.5? I don't recall them having one, hence the eneko replacement. And I did find racial stats for half-giants, but I'm not giving them player status.

[Belac93]

Once Volo's Guide to Monsters comes out, we'll have access to a playable large race (most likely, unless they're going to shrink Firbolg to being medium sized, which would be lame).

Well, on the FR wiki it says 9 to 11 feet, so I agree with this. If they do, I wonder how they are going to handle large weapons for them? They could easily be the best melee race if wizards is not careful. At the very least, they'll be amazing grapplers.