To supplant the afterlife.

[Xuldarinar]

I've been bouncing around the notion of a group that fundamentally fulfills the same role as that normally filled by an outer plane. Those that die have continued existence (though through undeath), there are those revered for their power and authority, there is a physical place for followers to exist, so on.

What do you think of the notion?
How would you approach it?
What obstacles would such a thing face, both in being set up (a razmir type rising to power for instance) and handling the wrath of various deities and their servants?

[Gildedragon]

So a group that turns their members into either undead or deathless...
Challenges: anti undead bias from good churches, pissing off Mechanus and getting Inevitables sent after you, a god/fiend-prince of undeath opting to use your group as a recruitment tool, undeath isn't forever unless they have "Raise Undead" contingent on them, or are ghosted

As for an idea: it is solid, see Eberron's Undying Court and The Blood of Vol

WeeJas would dig your group

[Honest Tiefling]

Challenges: anti undead bias from good churches, pissing off Mechanus and getting Inevitables sent after you...p

As a question, what defines means to cheat death? What if going to another plane to undead it up was the natural course for this race or plane? Would the Maruts still interfere if this was the actual afterlife of this world?

[Psyren]

Well, you'd get Urgathoa's vote at least, but I don't think the others would be too keen on it.

In addition to that, you need to specify - if this is Golarion, then undead have all the negatives they usually have, chief among them being bringing more evil into the world every time they're made. But if it's some other setting/dimension, you get to make whatever rules you see fit, including whether and how an arrangement like this would work.

[Xuldarinar]

Lets assume this is with the primary Pathfinder setting.

Im sure anyone seeking to do this might want to get some advice from the bone sages on Eox if at all possible.

[Clistenes]

They could have achieved some way to turn their dead into Ancestor Spirits. There are a few templates you could adapt: FR's Theltor template, BoED's Sacred Watcher template, Green Ronin's Spirit template or Encyclopedia Divine's Spirit template.

The group would be made of Shamans who revere their ancestors and seek their protection. The Ancestor Spirits could even have shaped their own country/city in an Ethereal Demiplane, and retire there when they don't have living descendants to care for anymore.

They could use some complex funerary rituals to ensure the transformation into spirits.

[Prime32]

Do you plan to separate this "afterlife" from the world in some way? Put it underground, or in a demiplane? Is everyone fully aware of how the system works, or do you just teleport them to a remote island and tell them "This is Heaven"?


As for an idea: it is solid, see Eberron's Undying Court and The Blood of VolThe ultimate goal of the Blood of Vol is to achieve true immortality through the power of blood and life. Becoming an undead means that route is forever denied to you, so it's seen as a form of martyrdom for wise church-members who want to stick around to teach future generations.

[Xuldarinar]

Do you plan to separate this "afterlife" from the world in some way?


That would be the wise move, but not certain.


Put it underground, or in a demiplane?


Both are valid. One thought I had was the First World, or a demiplane off of it, simply because that would reduce problems involving upset deities.



Is everyone fully aware of how the system works, or do you just teleport them to a remote island and tell them "This is Heaven"?


I'd say limits on the whole smoke and mirrors thing. At most, keeping it from being common knowledge too soon, or convincing people it isn't unnatural/harmful/ect. Wouldn't want smite happy paladins to come from far and wide.

[Psyren]

A good model for this kind of thing is probably Geb - a nation that is run almost exclusively by intelligent undead. Their existence is more for political expedience than out of devotion to the ideal of undeath however. (Though, there are certainly folks who live there - usually Urgathoans or Kuthites, but some Nethysians as well - that revere undeath as a concept.)

Geb itself however is protected by its titular mythic ghost king as well as a measure of tolerance from being blockaded/isolated from most other nations. Attempting to establish another bastion of undeath somewhere else in Golarion, even on another plane, would likely attract all the wrong kind of attention from Iomedaeans, Pharasmins, and Sarenrites; trying to do it on the First World is even worse, and would get Erastians, Desnans, Gozrens and Shelynites up in your grill too.