What would it take to legitimately challenge level 20 PC's with 10 epic boons.

[Gizmogidget]

Say you run an adventure from level 1 all the way to 20 with 10 epic boons. How would you challenge a group of five players of this level? Presume they are the typical party Evocation Wizard, Champion Fighter, Life Cleric, Thief, and Bard of Lore.

Do you feel that the system detailed in the 5e PHB for epic boons is better than that of the epic levels of previous iterations of D&D?

[RulesJD]

Anti-magic Fields

Truesight

Dispel Magic

Counterspell

Feeblemind

Massive amounts of smaller enemies, not fewer amounts of big challenging creatures.

[DireSickFish]

Have there mums show up very insistent that they are not getting enough vegetables. Did you know you're brother just got promoted? He's not an apprentice cobbler anymore, he's got a license and everything. You can teleport to other planes, but would it kill you to visit your grandma once and a while? I made you this sweater, you should wear it. Much more comfortable than that old rusty armor.

Basically don't challenge them with how many mountains they can bench press.

[Sir cryosin]

1000 kobolts with +3 slings using +3 bullets? Watch your party laugh at them then run for there life after round one of the kobolts.

[dev6500]

1000 kobolts with +3 slings using +3 bullets? Watch your party laugh at them then run for there life after round one of the kobolts.

I suspect that even in that scenario, the party will crush them unless they are stupid since they will in all likelyhood win initiative(kobolds have +2 to initiative while the party if mildly optimized should crush that number) and then its just a matter of them dealing with the kobolds in any number of ways. 1 option is storm of vengeance which should wipe out most of the kobolds in the first round with a 360 ft radius. If they retreat a mild distance and cast wind wall they are safe for a round or 2 while they prep AoE spells. If they have solid fly speeds then can likely escape sling range and cast with impunity.

[Toofey]

Fine a Hundred Thousand Kobolds.

But serious.
-Gods. enemies which oppose them in ways the rules will not help them with.

-Enemies with the same levels and access to items/boons. Runs the risk of snowballing as your party takes them down, but the DM who can't take down the players with comprable characters probably shouldn't be DMing (note I refer to Can. By the same token a DM who DOES kill his party using characters based on theirs also shouldn't be DMing)

-Dragons, I haven't actually run 5th ed yet, but looking at everything the higher level dragons should be good for 1 or 2 20th level characters if they're played smart.

-Additionally Mordenkinen's Disjunction. Who cares if they haven't introduced it this ed yet, you know what it's going to do.

[BootStrapTommy]

Multiply spell casters with access to 9th level spells (two or more of the MM's Archmages, with custom spell lists would do). Disjunction is a must (actually as effective in its weapon ruining powers versus martial characters as it is versus mages). Counterspell and Dispel are good, as are buffs that grant allies advantage.

Twice as many "captain" type units, used as if they were low level mooks, to play the numbers game with bounded accuracy. Upgrade the equipment a bit.

And that would really do it.

[JNAProductions]

Goultard! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?433028-Goultard-Iop) Ten characters.

[Gizmogidget]

Read the Goultard post, nice job!

[RulesJD]

Goultard! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?433028-Goultard-Iop) Ten characters.

Loving the idea of multiple forms but MaxWilson did a pretty good example of how that guy would be wrecked pretty easily.

Should give him Magical Resistance trait and Legendary Saves trait. Otherwise 1 Feeblemind and the party can pretty much walk away, which any high level party should most def have as a defense against Wizard's spell.

Also, his Wisdom save is pretty weak even without Feeblemind until Paladin form. 1 Hold Person/Monster and the first two forms get burned through realllll quick.

[RickAllison]

Shadows. An ambush with them can kill off Wizards and other 8 Strength heroes in four hits. Plus, enemies are dealing with a maximum of 20 effective health versus d4s.

[Kane0]

- Old school ability damage/drain
- Draining Proficiency Bonus
- Exhaustion Levels
- Spell absorption (if successfully save gets THP)
- Bestowing damage vulnerability
- Target death saves directly (three strikes and you're out!)
- Target their equipment (Rust monsters and the like)
- Permanent debuffs/condiftions (eg Nymph's blinding beauty)

[Giant2005]

Armies are an easy counter to a few strong characters.
If you want to do it with only a few enemies, then make custom enemies with regen that is slightly below the party's combined average DPR.

[JakOfAllTirades]

Simple.

Give the monsters 20 class levels and ELEVEN epic boons.

[JNAProductions]

Loving the idea of multiple forms but MaxWilson did a pretty good example of how that guy would be wrecked pretty easily.

Should give him Magical Resistance trait and Legendary Saves trait. Otherwise 1 Feeblemind and the party can pretty much walk away, which any high level party should most def have as a defense against Wizard's spell.

Also, his Wisdom save is pretty weak even without Feeblemind until Paladin form. 1 Hold Person/Monster and the first two forms get burned through realllll quick.

Black Necromancer? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?488152-Black-Necromancer-(And-Pimping-Ride))

[Temperjoke]

See, when the party gets to that level, you have to divide the party and turn them against each other by making them pick sides in a battle on a cosmic scale. I mean, at that point, every deity should be actively trying to recruit them and should be well aware of the best incentives for each member.

[JoeJ]

See, when the party gets to that level, you have to divide the party and turn them against each other by making them pick sides in a battle on a cosmic scale. I mean, at that point, every deity should be actively trying to recruit them and should be well aware of the best incentives for each member.

Since the PCs are so powerful, maybe the king thinks they need to be kept under his control and only some of the PCs are willing to go along with it. And then the king sends assassins to kill a friend of one of the PCs whom everybody thinks is a terrorist, but the friend was mind controlled by an evil cult, and it's not too late to save him.

[AvatarVecna]

Since the PCs are so powerful, maybe the king thinks they need to be kept under his control and only some of the PCs are willing to go along with it. And then the king sends assassins to kill a friend of one of the PCs whom everybody thinks is a terrorist, but the friend was mind controlled by an evil cult, and it's not too late to save him.

JoeJ, the man who put the b in subtle.

[N810]

Hmmm.... LOTS of rust monsters, mind flayers and beholders. :nale:

anti-magic fields for the casters, rust monsters eat all their equipment while the mind flayers control the melee types.

[JakOfAllTirades]

And then there's Pun-Pun.