Insinuator Cleric

[Xuldarinar]

I just wanted to pitch is notion, and while I diid put it on the paizo site, i've gotten no advice on the notion. Sure, it isn't rule legal, but would the Insinuator archetype make for a reasonable cleric archetype if allowed, given certain considerations? What about the flavor it lends?



Alignment: Any Evil
Code of Conduct: Possibly replacing instead any rules normally put forth by a cleric's patron.
Invocation
Channel Energy: Taking notes from the archetype, allowing one to channel both forms, but positive only works if they channel a neutral outsider and expend two uses. This would certainly apply sooner than the archetype places it.


Detect Balance: Though this could augment castings of Detect Good and Detect Evil.
Smite Impudence
Selfish Healing
Aura of Ego: and anything else that replaces an antipaladin aura henceforth..
Stuborn Health
Greeds
Spells: Because what is a cleric without spellcasting? Maybe reduced spellcasting if anything.
Ambitious Bond
Personal Champion


Something involving domains. I'd say likely allowing only one domain, but it is one chosen each day and depends upon the outsider channeled. I.e; Channeling a demon would offer either the Evil domain or Chaos Domain with the Demon subdomain. Channeling a Devil would offer either the Evil domain or the Law domain with the Devil subdomain. Channeling an elemental might instead offer its associated element in domain form. So on and so forth.

On a side note; What other classes could this notion be applied to, and how well do you think it would work?

[Dravda]

Personally, I love the flavor of the Insinuator archetype. Personally, I'd take it even further and allow the insinuator cleric to invoke ANY outsider, regardless of alignment. This would make them ideal spies and infiltrators of good organizations, corrupting them from within to serve their own needs.

Your idea to keep the code of conduct is a good one, though the insinuator would need to be EXTREMELY careful about toeing the line between looking out for their own self-interest and not violating their patron's wishes. Still, that could make for some interesting roleplaying if done right.

I'm inclined to agree with you on the domains: only having access to 1 at a time seems like a reasonable trade for being able to swap patrons every day. In addition, perhaps the cleric could choose to invoke a deity, not merely an outsider? This would allow them to masquerade as a member of a specific faith's clergy, and grant access to that deity's domains. I see the infiltrator as a "divine thief" like the Ur-Priest of 3.5.

Anyways, interesting thought. This thread should have more replies than it does.

[Xuldarinar]

Personally, I love the flavor of the Insinuator archetype. Personally, I'd take it even further and allow the insinuator cleric to invoke ANY outsider, regardless of alignment. This would make them ideal spies and infiltrators of good organizations, corrupting them from within to serve their own needs.

Your idea to keep the code of conduct is a good one, though the insinuator would need to be EXTREMELY careful about toeing the line between looking out for their own self-interest and not violating their patron's wishes. Still, that could make for some interesting roleplaying if done right.

I'm inclined to agree with you on the domains: only having access to 1 at a time seems like a reasonable trade for being able to swap patrons every day. In addition, perhaps the cleric could choose to invoke a deity, not merely an outsider? This would allow them to masquerade as a member of a specific faith's clergy, and grant access to that deity's domains. I see the infiltrator as a "divine thief" like the Ur-Priest of 3.5.

Anyways, interesting thought. This thread should have more replies than it does.

Thank you for the input. After some time, I ultimately decided to do a homebrew (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?489224-Archetypes-Invoking-for-the-Divine) on the subject matter, covering both the cleric and the paladin, while intending to cover the inquisitor and warpriest at a later point in time.

Paladin keeps the selfish component of the archetype, but even good can be selfish.
Cleric doesn't need to be selfish, though that may be frequent. I ultimately slapped them with reduced spellcasting, both to honor the insinuator archetype, and because they have such day to day diversity as well as being able to piss off 2 to 4 different alignment outsiders and still be able to cast spells.

[Psyren]

I guess I'm missing the point here, but I thought the idea behind Insinuator was to let you be an anti-paladin that could deviate one step from CE. But clerics of a CE deity can already deviate one step, so why would applying this archetype matter? It feels like it would be adding more restrictions to the cleric for no benefit. (Also, they can just pick Versatile Channeler if they want to channel both kinds of energy and not deal with the antipaladin stuff.)

[Xuldarinar]

I guess I'm missing the point here, but I thought the idea behind Insinuator was to let you be an anti-paladin that could deviate one step from CE. But clerics of a CE deity can already deviate one step, so why would applying this archetype matter? It feels like it would be adding more restrictions to the cleric for no benefit. (Also, they can just pick Versatile Channeler if they want to channel both kinds of energy and not deal with the antipaladin stuff.)

The point of the insinuator is to provide an antipaladin that can be of any evil alignment, and draw strength from virtually any outsider (save for good aligned once).

[Psyren]

The point of the insinuator is to provide an antipaladin that can be of any evil alignment, and draw strength from virtually any outsider (save for good aligned once).

Again, clerics can already do this though. This archetype was meant to lift an antipaladin restriction that clerics already don't share.

[Xuldarinar]

Again, clerics can already do this though. This archetype was meant to lift an antipaladin restriction that clerics already don't share.

Not exactly. A cleric is beholden to a single entity (or concept), and a shift in alignment can force them to atone.

A cleric given the insinuator archetype could serve different entities between days, and if they wind up upsetting one, they don't have to atone for anything unless they want to invoke another outsider of that alignment. If they shift in alignment, they may have different entities to talk to.

A standard cleric who violates their patron's code is rendered an ex-cleric until they atone with their own faith or another faith, though clerics devoted to concepts don't worry for that.
A cleric of this path who violates their patron's code could just talk to someone else the next day. A favored outsider type to invoke could be atoned for given the next opportunity, but the cleric in the mean time does retain potential access to their spells, provided they haven't offended too many alignments. It is increased day to day versatility (at least thematic), a flavor approach, and provides them with a buffer.

But, I suppose you have a point.