Alchemist optimization

[Britsky]

Having to make a character for a pathfinder campaign, only the second time playing pathfinder so not super savvy with it (mostly played 3.5 campaigns).

Character must be 5th level, preferably a standard race, no magical items or equipment above masterwork, starting with 3,000 gp.
I'm quite liking the idea of playing an alchemist but was wondering if anyone here could give me any pointers on optimizing my character, i.e any other classes that go with it? useful alternate features? how to properly play an alchemist?

I was thinking either going purely 5 levels of alchemist, or maybe taking one or two levels of fighter or gunslinger. with fighter i'd be using a lot of poison's and acids and such to deal extra melee damage and with gunslinger i'd be going for a very explosive character, bombs, guns, all sorts of things that go boom.

[Geddy2112]

Although it is a bit dated, this guide (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hChbcEsEfQsR7NkwKlzO-GLYtrOtxlkGHpRQgKKZ5gc/edit?pref=2&pli=1) is a great place to start for building an alchemist.

What exactly do you wanna do as an alchemist? Buff up on mutagens and extracts and rip people in half hulk style? Blow everything up with bombs? Healer? Poison everyone? For core races, elf is a strong racial choice because you get longbow proficiency and the stats are very solid. Basically everything but gnome and dwarf are good for alchemist from core. A dip in fighter or gunslinger gives you martial weapon proficency, and if you have the alchemist discovery to infuse ranged ammo with bombs, gunslinger is kinda cool. The siege gunner archetype uses intelligence instead of wisdom for grit, a must have if you go that route. But sticking to alchemist 20 is probably stronger than a dip in either.

[Psyren]

As Geddy said, I'd recommend just staying in Alchemist. You'll get much stronger results than trying to dilute it with dips, especially dips in weak classes.

[Necromancy]

I highly recommend gnome saboteur

[D4rkh0rus]

I have 2 concepts but they require non standard races, the skinwalker and the wyrwood.

The first one is a Jekyll/hide type that uses the rage bred skinwalker with the extra feature feat to choose two times from the shape ability list that it gets (you will choose hooves and gore) giving you 3 natural attacks, then you will grab alchemist to 20, and get the melee discoveries, first being feral mutagen (2 claws and a bite) giving you a total of 6 natural attacks at 2, then you just add tentacles from the tentacle discovery.

You combine this with both the vivisectionist and beast morph archetypes to to get sneak attack from viv, and beast morph will net you extra options when you down your mutagen, most important of which is pounce at lvl 10. Have fun.


The other is a wyrwood archer/bomber. It isn't as combat focused as the other build, but it holds its own, it relies on tanglefoot bombs to CC enemies and deal aloe damage, with a back up composite longbow for when bombs run low.

It pretty much uses the standard bomb alchemist feats, but with the tumor familiar discovery (and the familiar being a protector archetype) and potion glutton feat at lvl 1
The fun thing about this build, is wyrwood are constructs, so they are immune to most things,
The only problem is their weakness being hp damage,and the lack of decent means to heal them... Unless you do this:
Wyrwood have an alternate feature that lets them swap dark vision for make whole 1/day, so they can heal themselves 1/day, this is were potion glutton comes in, you got extracts which function as potions, or you can but a lvl 1 potion. Either way, you're looking at the spell "recharge innate magic" as a move action you can take out the potion, drink it as a swift cuz of the feat, the. Standard action use your make whole again cuz it was recharged, then you can 5ft step. Usually you will also recharge after combat if you used it, etc.

The tumor familiar with protector lets you essentially get +2 ac cuz of aid another, and at 5th lvl, you essentially gain permanent shield other with you familiar, so you get an effective DR of 50%, and your familiar can be healed by normal magic to boot. (I totally grab improved familiar and imagine this as the actual character, a tiny imp driving his small sized mecha)


When it comes to core races, most will do fine, there's a flavourfor each.

[Necromancy]

Basically everything but gnome and dwarf are good for alchemist from core.

No gnomes? You sir are mistaken

Combine gnome saboteur with vivisectionist
You now have a mutagen that gives you HIPS, imp invisibility, and spider climb for ridiculous durations. You're basically the invisible man with wall walking, sneak attacks, and potion spells.

[Geddy2112]

No gnomes? You sir are mistaken

Combine gnome saboteur with vivisectionist
You now have a mutagen that gives you HIPS, imp invisibility, and spider climb for ridiculous durations. You're basically the invisible man with wall walking, sneak attacks, and potion spells.

Color me unimpressed that the stock mutagen is garbage, and requires you dumping discoveries into getting HIPS at level 12, and that greater invisiblity/spider climb in a mutagen comes at level 20 as an optional capstone, woo, and requires you to take the grand chameleon mutagen, which is horrible at level 16.There are better grand discoveries. You also lose knowledge nature(good) for knowledge engineering(bad), also losing the cool desynch of the vivisectionist's use nature as heal if you combine the archetypes. I will say the mixed bomb has some potential and HIPS is nothing to scoff at. But there are far more powerful alchemist builds and it is a weak archetype for optimization.

I will throw gnomes a bone for having a nice alt favored class bonus and the pyromaniac alt racial trait, both of which work well for a bomber gnome, but I would take grenadier in this case.

[Florian]

@Britsky:

Generally speaking the Alchemist class is extremely well designed and very powerful by itself.

Problems arise when trying to simultaneously being good at everything the class could provide instead of favoring one class feature over the other.

Either pick Bombs or Mutagen to be you main thing and that choice will pretty much affect what build options are available and if class dipping will net some gain or nor.

With the very much reduced WBL mentioned, I´d go Bombs, Goblin, Winged Marauder Archetype, basic archery feat chain as that is always useful.

[Spore]

Problems arise when trying to simultaneously being good at everything the class could provide instead of favoring one class feature over the other.


Still, if you focus on either Mutagen plus natural Attacks OR Bombs you still have the other option to fill your arsenal to be a quite well rounded character.

1) Mutagen Melee Characters can still lob bombs and depending on the situation it is still a better option than to throw yourself in a meat grinder. Kill those mooks with a bombs before entering melee perhaps. One or two utility/debuffing bombs are also welcome if the discoveries do not hamper the progress of your melee tree.

2) Similarly a Bomb focussed Alchemist can invest a bit more into Dex and Weapon Finesse and have a very decent time in melee combat if he is forced into it. Or favor Int and prepare a few select potions for contingencies.

[Florian]

@Sporeegg:

Consider the harsh WBL limit that has been mentioned by the OP. That´s not much to boost a lot of class features by.

3K means a +2 INT headband, a bombchucker, some alchemical flasks (pointing out that important PF rules that you get cost reduction on WBL for things you can create yourself).
That would work on bombs/day, extracts/day and affect Throw Anything.

For a Hyde, you´d need at least a basic AoMF or you can´t even beat DR/magic, which is getting quite common at level 5.

[Spore]

An extract of Magic Fang is not so outlandish. 3k on 5th level is absolutely fine. I have played an Investigator to 7th level with an added wealth of 4k of items we found along the road.

[Britsky]

Just to clear it up, no magic items at all, which does seem to limit my options significantly.

Do i need to have an alchemy crafting kit? The description makes it seem like without one i won't be able to do very much? But having one would take up the majority of my carry weight as bags of holding/handy haversacks aren't allowed due to the no magic items rule.

[Geddy2112]

Just to clear it up, no magic items at all, which does seem to limit my options significantly.

Do i need to have an alchemy crafting kit? The description makes it seem like without one i won't be able to do very much? But having one would take up the majority of my carry weight as bags of holding/handy haversacks aren't allowed due to the no magic items rule.

Yes, you need an alchemist crafting kit. However, it is only 5 pounds. The alchemist kit is heavy from the pot and torches, which you can dump.

You don't need an alchemist lab or the portable version, and you will be fine without the +2 or +1 bonus from either.

[Spore]

Just to clear it up, no magic items at all, which does seem to limit my options significantly.

Do i need to have an alchemy crafting kit? The description makes it seem like without one i won't be able to do very much? But having one would take up the majority of my carry weight as bags of holding/handy haversacks aren't allowed due to the no magic items rule.

Use a pulley with a donkey. I am completely serious. You are a wandering alchemist, but you need your supplies. And while you can McGyver your way around actually using alchemist supplies, it is hardly believable that you work without a lab all the time.

2 mwk Weapons (ranged and melee) = 600 GP
Mithril Chain Shirt = 1.100
prepped Fire Arrows/Bolts for ranged weapon = ???
alchemical stuff form this page for the rest: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/goods-and-services/herbs-oils-other-substances

If your DM criticizes any of the alchemical items to be magical you simply tell him that Alchemy is THE major topic between science and magic in Pathfinder. Without a big spoon of "a wizard did it", half of the crazy stuff you use would simply go nowhere, starting with your bomb class feature.

[Florian]

If the talk about "that" level of mundane equipment, would´t it be just better to buy a rather large pack of Guard Dogs and be done with it?

[Britsky]

Yes, you need an alchemist crafting kit. However, it is only 5 pounds. The alchemist kit is heavy from the pot and torches, which you can dump.

You don't need an alchemist lab or the portable version, and you will be fine without the +2 or +1 bonus from either.

I see, thanks. Got thrown, for some reason the copy of Ultimate equipment i have has the alchemy crafting kit as being 50lb, which made no sense as the Alchemists kit containing weighed half that. Seems to have the correct weight in the advanced players guide though.