D&D 3.5 - Iaijutsu rules

[runnice]

Hi guys, it's me again!

I really dont understand how laijutsu master works. You can do only one laijutsu hit per turn? Only one per fight?

Sound really useless to me with it's only work one time per fight.

Someone can explain how it's work and how can i use everytime?


Kisses

Nadja (Runnice)

[Flickerdart]

Iaijutsu Master grants no special modifiers to how the Iaijutsu Focus skill is used. The Iaijutsu Focus skill works like this:

If:

You attack an opponent AND
That opponent is is flat-footed AND
You just drew a sheathed melee weapon


Then:

You roll an iaijutsu focus check and deal extra damage according to the table.


The conditions necessary are difficult to produce:

Your opponent must be flat-footed, which is usually accomplished when you act in combat before they do (on the surprise round or first round). This means that usually, this ability is useful only on the first round of combat.
Your weapon must be sheathed before the attack. After you have drawn the weapon, it is no longer sheathed, and putting it back is a move action. So usually this ability is only useful once per round.


Combined, these two restrictions mean that iaijutsu focus is typically only useful for one attack per encounter. However, there are ways around this.


Flat-footed: The usual way of making enemies flat-footed is forcing them to make Balance checks (with marbles or grease). Unless you have 5 or more ranks in Balance (and few published monsters do), having to balance makes you flat-footed. It also helps when you get a surprise round, since then you get to attack twice (once in the surprise round and once in the first round) before the enemy stops being flat-footed.
Drawing a sheathed weapon: The Gnomish Quickrazor can be sheathed as a free action if you are proficient in it. Make sure to take Quick Draw so you can draw your weapon as a free action, too. You can also walk around with multiple weapons (though you will look a little ridiculous) and simply drop the one you drew last attack as a free action, and then draw another one.

[Gildedragon]

Iaijutsu Master grants no special modifiers to how the Iaijutsu Focus skill is used. The Iaijutsu Focus skill works like this:

If:

You attack an opponent AND
That opponent is is flat-footed AND
You just drew a sheathed melee weapon


Then:

You roll an iaijutsu focus check and deal extra damage according to the table.


The conditions necessary are difficult to produce:

Your opponent must be flat-footed, which is usually accomplished when you act in combat before they do (on the surprise round or first round). This means that usually, this ability is useful only on the first round of combat.
Your weapon must be sheathed before the attack. After you have drawn the weapon, it is no longer sheathed, and putting it back is a move action. So usually this ability is only useful once per round.


Combined, these two restrictions mean that iaijutsu focus is typically only useful for one attack per encounter. However, there are ways around this.


Flat-footed: The usual way of making enemies flat-footed is forcing them to make Balance checks (with marbles or grease). Unless you have 5 or more ranks in Balance (and few published monsters do), having to balance makes you flat-footed. It also helps when you get a surprise round, since then you get to attack twice (once in the surprise round and once in the first round) before the enemy stops being flat-footed.
Drawing a sheathed weapon: The Gnomish Quickrazor can be sheathed as a free action if you are proficient in it. Make sure to take Quick Draw so you can draw your weapon as a free action, too. You can also walk around with multiple weapons (though you will look a little ridiculous) and simply drop the one you drew last attack as a free action, and then draw another one.


The quickrazor is drawn as part of the attack.

[BWR]

The way it's supposed to work is this:

- two people face each in a formal duel, not proper combat
- they stare at eachother in good old western samurai fashion
- one draws quicker than the other, and if she hits, deals extra damage
- the duel is either over or devolves into normal combat, at which point IF can't be used

Thing is, IF is a bad attempt at trying to recreate iaijutsu duelling from L5R. The roll and keep system L5R uses is generally far more deadly than d20, and a single hit from a weapon is likely to seriously injure, cripple or even kill you (yes, you can do that in d20 too, but it takes more tweaking of the system to manage), and depending on which 'class' you play and which edition of L5R you played you might get significant bonuses to damage in duels, so they made IF deal extra damage to sorta get a one-hit kill you can easily get in R&K.

The Iaijutsu skill in R&K does not increase damage, it merely makes you more likely to get in the first strike in a duel, and in a duel the opponent is the R&K equivalent of flat-footed, which generally makes them way easier to hit than it is to hit a flat-footed character in d20. Combined with a built-in power attack mechanic for attacks, you generally win death duels easily with the first strike.

Iaijutsu is NOT meant to be used to cheese out with constant draws for extra damage in combat

[Flickerdart]

The way it's supposed to work is this:

- two people face each in a formal duel, not proper combat

Ooh, wrong on your first point! There are mechanics for an iaijutsu duel. They are listed in the skill after the sentence that goes "In addition, if you and your opponent both agree to participate in a formal iaijutsu duel..." Note the in addition - the primary use of the skill is to deal extra damage when attacking, and the additional use is the duel.

[HolyDraconus]

Ooh, wrong on your first point! There are mechanics for an iaijutsu duel. They are listed in the skill after the sentence that goes "In addition, if you and your opponent both agree to participate in a formal iaijutsu duel..." Note the in addition - the primary use of the skill is to deal extra damage when attacking, and the additional use is the duel.

I was fairly certain that bluff, feint and quickdraw allowed IF to go off multiple times in an encounter. ..

[runnice]

Your weapon must be sheathed before the attack. After you have drawn the weapon, it is no longer sheathed, and putting it back is a move action. So usually this ability is only useful once per round.
[/LIST]

Combined, these two restrictions mean that iaijutsu focus is typically only useful for one attack per encounter. However, there are ways around this.


Flat-footed: The usual way of making enemies flat-footed is forcing them to make Balance checks (with marbles or grease). Unless you have 5 or more ranks in Balance (and few published monsters do), having to balance makes you flat-footed. It also helps when you get a surprise round, since then you get to attack twice (once in the surprise round and once in the first round) before the enemy stops being flat-footed.
Drawing a sheathed weapon: The Gnomish Quickrazor can be sheathed as a free action if you are proficient in it. Make sure to take Quick Draw so you can draw your weapon as a free action, too. You can also walk around with multiple weapons (though you will look a little ridiculous) and simply drop the one you drew last attack as a free action, and then draw another one.


So, if we have Quick Draw and Weapon Juggle

Can we do the laijutsu attack every turn? Drawning the weapon, attack, and sheathe it.

[LoyalPaladin]

I was fairly certain that bluff, feint and quickdraw allowed IF to go off multiple times in an encounter. ..
Snowbluff does it with arrows as an improvised melee weapon.

Unfortunately, you can't summon Snowbluff by repeating his name three times like you can with Red Fel. You have to sacrifice an unwilling IZ42 or post an anime gif. Since there are no IZ42's around, here's the mandatory anime gif.

https://67.media.tumblr.com/1aa7359225dac581f26d7da215a72f16/tumblr_n1w514W8zW1sjdczao2_500.gif

[Snowbluff]

Ara, you're stuck up as always.
http://37.media.tumblr.com/0a99ad2cb76e9913fd248fd5f2f7dc7b/tumblr_mvwy7bu88P1sjnmr6o1_500.gif

So, if we have Quick Draw and Weapon Juggle

Can we do the laijutsu attack every turn? Drawning the weapon, attack, and sheathe it.

Another alternate method is getting a Cursed Sword. Every time you try to draw a weapon, you'll redraw the sword. So just discard the blade after each attack, and try to quickdraw something else, and you'll have the sword ready again. This is a good method if you want to combine it with power attack.

Gloom Razor is a nice feat from the Tome of Battle for triggering Flatfooted 1/round. I think Scarlet Corsairs have an improved feinting ability that causes Flat Footing.

Archery is the best way, IMO. Less ways to trigger flat footed, but it's easier to trigger the drawing effect.

[LoyalPaladin]

Weapon Juggle
I'm unfamiliar with this.


Ara, you're stuck up as always.
http://37.media.tumblr.com/0a99ad2cb76e9913fd248fd5f2f7dc7b/tumblr_mvwy7bu88P1sjnmr6o1_500.gif
Probably because I'm always cleaning up after you.
https://66.media.tumblr.com/a48a8f8b03b8477338dc07b12831205b/tumblr_mzxhe9wAkH1sjdczao1_500.gif

[Troacctid]

Remember that denying the opponent their Dexterity bonus to AC does not make them flat-footed. Things like feinting will not help here.

[Snowbluff]

Probably because I'm always cleaning up after you.
https://66.media.tumblr.com/a48a8f8b03b8477338dc07b12831205b/tumblr_mzxhe9wAkH1sjdczao1_500.gif
Nan desutte?
https://media.giphy.com/media/MxZigqFy9DkGI/giphy.gif

Remember that denying the opponent their Dexterity bonus to AC does not make them flat-footed. Things like feinting will not help here.

Yes, this is important. It's not like Sneak attack where you can just turn invisible...

[runnice]

I'm unfamiliar with this.


Weapon Juggle [General, Fighter]

You can change and pick up weapons as a free action.
Prerequisite
Dex 13, Quick Draw, Sleight of Hand 1 rank
Benefit
You can juggle weapons and similarly sized objects during combat. You can draw, sheathe, or shift them from hand to hand as a free action. You can even pick them up from the ground as a free action, as long as you can kick at them. You can do this at the start and end of your turn, but not on somebody else's turn or in the middle of an attack sequence. These actions never trigger attacks of opportunity.:smallbiggrin:

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by runnice
Weapon Juggle [General, Fighter]

I've never heard of this either.

What the OP posted looks like a modified completely different version of a third-party Pathfinder feat (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/3rd-party-feats/kobold-press/combat-feats---3rd-party---kobold-press/weapon-juggle-combat), which may or may not have been designed to work with Iaijutsu.

[Starkeeper]

It's probably from ye olde badbrew store (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Weapon_Juggle_(3.5e_Feat)).

[Snowbluff]

It's probably from ye olde badbrew store (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Weapon_Juggle_(3.5e_Feat)).

Aw, shucks. I knew what that was before I clicked it. Why did I click it? :3

[runnice]

So can i do 2 laijutsu attacks per turn using Weapon Juggle Feat?

[Flickerdart]

So can i do 2 laijutsu attacks per turn using Weapon Juggle Feat?
The feat you posted, and the published Pathfinder feat, are different in their wording. The Pathfinder one would let you use Iaijutsu Focus as many times as you wanted, as long as the target was flat-footed, since you can re-sheathe your weapon as a free action. The one you posted explicitly doesn't let you use it in the middle of an attack sequence, so it won't be useful for you.

[LoyalPaladin]

It's probably from ye olde badbrew store (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Weapon_Juggle_(3.5e_Feat)).

Aw, shucks. I knew what that was before I clicked it. Why did I click it? :3
I saw the link before I clicked it. I can't bring myself to click it.

[BWR]

Ooh, wrong on your first point! There are mechanics for an iaijutsu duel. They are listed in the skill after the sentence that goes "In addition, if you and your opponent both agree to participate in a formal iaijutsu duel..." Note the in addition - the primary use of the skill is to deal extra damage when attacking, and the additional use is the duel.


And you ignored the rest of the post. Iaijutsu, in L5R, where the IF rules come from, is a skill used in a formal duel (barring certain Techniques that let you use it in combat). IF is, as I said, an imperfect adaptation with somewhat contradictory text. The very first line of the skill: "Use this skill to gather your personal energy (ki) in an iaijutsu duel."

[Flickerdart]

in L5R
This isn't L5R. The mechanic may have been inspired by L5R, but the designer intent in D&D is perfectly clear.

[BWR]

This isn't L5R. The mechanic may have been inspired by L5R, but the designer intent in D&D is perfectly clear.

If you are going to understand why something exists and how it is supposed to work it helps to look at where it's coming from.

[LTwerewolf]

If you are going to understand why something exists and how it is supposed to work it helps to look at where it's coming from.

No, that's muddying rules that aren't muddy. They took a concept from a different game and changed it. It's no longer the concept from that other game. This is d&d.

[weckar]

Plus, it is rather easy to argue that both games have a common source: Real Lifetm!
I'm pretty sure it still exists out there, somewhere...

[Thurbane]

Fun fact: Iajutsu Focs is not a trained-only skill.

By RAW, any character anywhere who fulfills the activation requirements should be allowed to roll an untrained check (i.e. a Charisma Check) to add bonus damage to their attack. :smallamused:

[Zanos]

There's a build out there that exploits the hell out of bloodstorm blade and the wording of the iaijutsu focus to chuck tons of katanas for massive damage. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?134276-3-5-Iaijutsu-Katana-Chucker)

[BWR]

Right, I concede the argument. Sidebar page 82 states "You may use your Iaijutsu Focus bonus damage in normal combat too."

[Kyberwulf]

I would say, use a bunch of throwing weapons enchanted to return.

[Soranar]

There are a few unintended interpretations of the skill that I have personally abused to no end

First, the flat footed thing can be pretty difficult to achieve so it's not that cheezy (compared to sneak attack)

but there are major ways to abuse this nonetheless

you have to remember that it's not precision damage so creatures immune to crits are not immune to Iaijutsu focus damage and very few creatures can never be flat footed

Every time you draw a weapon it triggers (assuming your opponent is flat footed of course) so if you can draw multiple weapons per turn you can trigger it multiple times per turn. And while the weapon drawn needs to be a melee weapon it doesn't say anywhere that you have to use it in melee or even in the attack in question (so you could draw a weapon and, as long as your next action is your attack, Iaijutsu focus triggers)

With this in mind you can draw a dagger (melee weapon), throw it (ranged attack) and trigger a Iaijutsu focus bonus damage at any range against any creature that you find flat footed (way stronger than sneak attack in this fashion)

It works better in melee with a gnomish quickrazor but for ranged combat it's hard to beat daggers

As someone else mentioned, you can argue that an arrow is an improvised melee weapon, shoot it with a bow and use the Iaijutsu damage with a bow an arrows

[runnice]

There are a few unintended interpretations of the skill that I have personally abused to no end

First, the flat footed thing can be pretty difficult to achieve so it's not that cheezy (compared to sneak attack)

but there are major ways to abuse this nonetheless

you have to remember that it's not precision damage so creatures immune to crits are not immune to Iaijutsu focus damage and very few creatures can never be flat footed

Every time you draw a weapon it triggers (assuming your opponent is flat footed of course) so if you can draw multiple weapons per turn you can trigger it multiple times per turn. And while the weapon drawn needs to be a melee weapon it doesn't say anywhere that you have to use it in melee or even in the attack in question (so you could draw a weapon and, as long as your next action is your attack, Iaijutsu focus triggers)

With this in mind you can draw a dagger (melee weapon), throw it (ranged attack) and trigger a Iaijutsu focus bonus damage at any range against any creature that you find flat footed (way stronger than sneak attack in this fashion)

It works better in melee with a gnomish quickrazor but for ranged combat it's hard to beat daggers

As someone else mentioned, you can argue that an arrow is an improvised melee weapon, shoot it with a bow and use the Iaijutsu damage with a bow an arrows

So, can i use some shurikens to do laijutsu damage at distance?

[Theobod]

So, can i use some shurikens to do laijutsu damage at distance?

If, and only if, your DM allows improvised weapons to apply which is something of a flood gate opener as in theory anything with some rigidity and weight can be used as an improvised weapon.
Purely as a raw argument though it's a strong one just YMMV, I have seen it ruled 3 ways.
1: Yes
2: Yes only if the weapon is both a melee AND ranged weapon inheritly and not via improvised use (such as daggers thrown, this is the most common ruling as it smells less of cheddar to most pallets)
3: No while admitting it's a table ruling/homebrew.

[FlaminCows]

There's a handy handbook for iaijutsu focus, including many ways to make an opponent flat-footed. Original is at Brilliant Gameologist forum, and I don't have a high enough post count to do links, so for your convenience here's a copy below.


I often see threads on Iaijutsu strike wherein someone asks for a list of the myriad ways of making an opponent flat-footed. I compiled this list on 339 a couple years ago for an Iaijutsu marrulurk build I had going at the time. I figured archiving it here would be a good way to get the list added to as well as making it an easy to find resource.

Please remember: Flat-footed is a different condition than Dex-denied. You are dex-denied when you are flat-footed.

Being denied your dex does NOT make you flat-footed.

This is an important distinction if you’re trying to stack Iaijutsu Focus with Sneak Attack or Sudden Strike damage.

Sneak attack requires an opponent to be denied their dexterity bonus, or for the sneak-attacker to be flanking.
Sudden-Strike requires an opponent to be denied their dexterity bonus. It does not work with flanking.
If your opponent is flat-footed, they are almost always denied their dexterity bonus. Uncanny Dodge is an exception, there may be others. Note that Uncanny Dodge does nothing against Iaijutsu Strike.

So, generally, if you can Iaijutsu Strike an opponent, you can Sudden Strike and/or Sneak Attack them.

So, here they are.

An opponent is flat-footed when they:


Have not yet acted in the initiative order during the first round of combat.
Are paralyzed.
Are balancing, if they have less than 5 ranks in Balance. (Use the spell Grease (PH) or if you’re cheap, some Marbles from Arms and Equipment Guide to force balance checks.)
Cannot see you. (Invisibility, hide checks, ridiculous distance, total cover or concealment.) “If you’re successfully hidden with respect to another creature, that creature is flat-footed with respect to you. That creature treats you as if your were invisible.”(Rules Compendium, p. 92)



FEATS

Flick of the Wrist (Feat, CW) - FF vs. one attack after drawing weapon 1/round and 1 per opponent/encounter.

GiantBane (Tactical Feat, CW) - Tumble through an opponents square as a free action, make immediate attack, opponent FF.

Gloom Razor (Tactical Feat, ToB) - Injure enemy, move 10', next turn enemy FF vs. first melee attack.

Confound the Big Folk (Tactical Feat, RotW) Move into space of creature at least two sizes larger than you, next round that creature is flat-footed vs your attacks.

Surprising Riposte (Feat, DotU) - Renders a foe Flat-Footed for one round after you successfully feint against him and hit him with a melee attack.

Mercurial Strike (Feat, Dragon Compendium) - Anytime an opponent provokes an AoO from you and you are unarmed, you may draw a weapon and take your AoO with it. Your opponent is Flat-footed against this attack.



SKILL TRICKS

Hidden Blade (Skill Trick, CS) - FF vs. one attack after drawing weapon, 1 use/encounter.

Sudden Draw (Skill Trick, CS) - FF vs. one AoO after drawing a weapon, 1 use/encounter.

Acrobatic Backstab (Skill Trick, CS) - Tumble through opponent's space, FF vs. next melee attack that turn.



SPELLS

Distract Assailant (SpC, Assassin 1) - FF until beginning of next turn.



MANUEVERS

Sapphire Nightmare Blade (Lv. 1 Maneuver) - Concentration vs. enemy ac, treat enemy FF for one melee attack.

Strike of the Broken Shield (Lv.4 Maneuver) - enemy must make reflex save or be FF until next turn, +4d6.

Ghost Blade (Lv. 6 Maneuver) - Enemy is FF vs one melee attack (that's it, really. for a lv. 6 maneuver.)

Shadow Garrote (lv. 3 Maneuver) - Ranged touch, +5d6, enemy must make fort save or be FF until next turn.

Death From Above (Lv. 4 Maneuver) - Jump check vs DC 20, +4d6, enemy treated as FF.

Feral Death Blow (Lv. 9 maneuver) - Jump check vs ac, enemy treated as FF, Fort save vs death or +20d6.

White Raven Strike (Lv. 4 Maneuver) - Enemy treated as FF until next turn, +4d6.



CLASS FEATURES


Cloaked Dancer - Suprise Strike (Class ability, CS) - While dancing, melee attack with light weapon, enemy is FF.



ITEMS

Umbral Awn (Legacy Weapon, ToB) - If unarmed, draw Umbral Awn as immediate action for an AoO, enemy treated as FF.

Blurstrike (Weapon enhancement) - ten times per day, activate to make opponent FF vs first attack that round (+2 equivalent).

dont forget the shadow striking enchantment form the Magic Item Compendium. Couple thousand and once per day you can increase your melee reach by 5 feet and count your target as flat footed.

[Troacctid]

Note that Uncanny Dodge does nothing against Iaijutsu Strike.
This is not entirely accurate in the case of scouts. A scout's uncanny dodge ability prevents her from being caught flat-footed, period.

[Thurbane]

Random question: is there any way to use Iajutsu with natural weapons, or does the wording prevent it?

[Soranar]

Due to the wording it'd be tricky because your next action (after drawing a weapon) must be your attack.

Say a kobold (2 claws 1 bite)

wouldn't work with a gnomish quickrazor since you immediately sheathe it after attacking and drawing it (technically 1 smooth motion)

assuming quickdraw

so you have to draw a dagger (or an improvised melee arrow)
attack with other hand or bite
drop knife (free action)
draw another dagger
attack with initial hand
drop knife
wash repeat

it gets tedious so a nice DM might just allow it without the dagger shenanigan or just ban the skill...

[Thurbane]

Wonder if there's any obscure way to count as "drawing" a natural weapon?

[Theobod]

Play something with retractable claws like a cat folk? Use a custom x/day item of claws of the bear from spell compendium?

[Aceon]

Many of the posters have wrong ideas about Iaijutsu Strikes in Normal Combat. You can most definitely make multiple Iaijutsu strikes in normal combat. You do not have to draw and sheath and re-draw again for each iterative strike. I myself missed this while playing my beloved Iaijutsu Master. I had a question about something related and emailed WOTC Cust Serv. and also Sage Advice (while both of those were still active back in the day!) The reply shocked me because I thought like you all do. For particulars may I refer you to side bar on bottom of p. 82:


IAIJUTSU STRIKES IN NORMAL COMBAT
You can use your Iaijutsu Focus bonus damage in normal combat too, but only when you are attacking a flat-footed opponent and you draw your weapon in the same round you strike.

This means that a character with Quick Draw can use Iaijutsu Focus in a surprise round, either to strike someone standing within sword reach, or to strike an opponent at the end of a partial charge (using Quick Draw to draw her weapon first). A character without Quick Draw cannot strike an opponent in a surprise round if he begins the round with his weapon sheathed.

In a normal first round of combat, a character whose initiative is higher than his opponent’s can draw a weapon, move to the opponent, and attack using Iaijutsu Focus, as long as he has either Quick Draw or a base attack bonus of +1 or higher (so that he can draw his weapon while he moves).

So that's it folks. In case you didn't read it the 1st time:


You can use your Iaijutsu Focus bonus damage in normal combat too, but only when you are attacking a flat-footed opponent and you draw your weapon in the same round you strike.

Period. Full stop.

So, you can draw and make all your iterative attacks for the round and so long as your foe remains flat-footed, you may apply IF bonus dice on EACH ATTACK. Of course the Gnome Quick Razor eliminates the question, however, there are instances where the IM PrC refers to "Katana" specifically. Also, so does the Samurai character class. So, me personally, I always stick with the "Katana" aka bastard sword...or Full Blade if you're nasty!

[Thurbane]

I'm willing to overlook the potential necro here, as this is very informative.

Thank you: I'll definitely keep that in mind for Iaijutsu builds!

[heavyfuel]

So, you can draw and make all your iterative attacks for the round and so long as your foe remains flat-footed, you may apply IF bonus dice on EACH ATTACK.

Arguable:


If you attack a flat-footed opponent immediately after drawing a melee weapon, you can deal extra damage

I could see a DM ruling either way (though IF is super weak, and I'd most likely see it ruled your way)

[Aceon]

Arguable:



I could see a DM ruling either way (though IF is super weak, and I'd most likely see it ruled your way)

Fair point, however you are quoting from the skill description and I was quoting from the part on the bottom of page 82 which describes how Iaijutsu may be used in normal combat entitled: "Iaijutsu Strikes in Normal Combat". In addition the Oriental Adventures FAQ states that IF can be used in a whirlwind attack.

[Thurbane]

Fair point, however you are quoting from the skill description and I was quoting from the part on the bottom of page 82 which describes how Iaijutsu may be used in normal combat entitled: "Iaijutsu Strikes in Normal Combat". In addition the Oriental Adventures FAQ states that IF can be used in a whirlwind attack.

Huh. All these years, I never realised that OA (and other books) had their own FAQs, not all of which made it to the main FAQ.


If a 10th-level weapon master is surrounded by, say, a bunch of low-level thugs, is it possible to use the ki whirlwind ability in conjunction with an iaijutsu attack if they’re flat-footed?
If you can draw the weapon during the same round you make the ki whirlwind attack, yes.

[Crake]

Another alternate method is getting a Cursed Sword. Every time you try to draw a weapon, you'll redraw the sword. So just discard the blade after each attack, and try to quickdraw something else, and you'll have the sword ready again. This is a good method if you want to combine it with power attack.

Except, if you have another weapon to draw, would it not just be better to draw that weapon instead of a -2 sword? You can't just grasp at an empty belt and draw the -2 sword, so you would actually need to carry around a bunch of weapons to keep re-drawing the -2 sword, at which point, why not just draw the mundane swords and not recieve the -2 penalty?

Seriously, you guys try way to hard to exploit that sword, and more often than not, your attempts are actually pointless.

Edit: Oh, kek, thread necro, well, either way, for anyone reading later, stop trying to use -2 swords like that, because it doesn't work.

[Aceon]

This is not entirely accurate in the case of scouts. A scout's uncanny dodge ability prevents her from being caught flat-footed, period.

That is actually not the case. Yes. I know it does say "can't be flat-footed" however, it is still incorrect. The writer was wrong and WOTC knows it. When I challenged them on this, they told me so. You see, the part in question states:

"Uncanny Dodge - like a Barbarian" then it goes on to incorrectly state what Uncanny Dodge does. If you have a discrepancy between two sources you must refer back to the primary source, which is the Players Handbook. The way Uncanny Dodge works is the character does NOT lose his Dexterity bonus to AC even if they are caught flat-footed. Primary source trumps secondary source. It is not a new kind of Uncanny Dodge...just a poorly written one.

There is no such thing as "can't be caught flat-footed" anyone who says such a thing doesn't actually understand what flat-footed even means. It means, (in most cases) the character has not yet acted, or can't act yet...usually do to it being the first round of combat and it is not yet their turn in initiative.

A character with Uncanny Dodge will not lose Dex, but the character is still flat-footed, can't act or react effectively yet and it is not yet their turn to act. Other instances of not being able to act or react properly to danger and thus being flat-footed include climbing or balancing (unless you are good at balancing with >/= 5 ranks in Balance) or if the character is bound, sleeping, held or paralyzed.

All of these conditions are in fact WORSE than flat-footed and the character achieves the central tenet or theme of "can't act or react" and "lose Dex to AC".

For that matter - I would also include a character who has been stunned. A stunned character has a condition which includes all of the bad stuff of "flat-footed" and in addition to that he or she drops anything held, (like a weapon or item) and takes a -2 penalty to AC on top of it all. However, that would be a DM's call. I think if a player were to invest deeply enough into being a good stunning fist user, meaning was somehow able to get a decent stun DC...then it would be a good tactic to use with IF bonus damage dice. But that would be the DM's call. Since stunning has very limited applications I think it would hardly be unbalanced.

[Thurbane]

Except, if you have another weapon to draw, would it not just be better to draw that weapon instead of a -2 sword? You can't just grasp at an empty belt and draw the -2 sword, so you would actually need to carry around a bunch of weapons to keep re-drawing the -2 sword, at which point, why not just draw the mundane swords and not recieve the -2 penalty?

Seriously, you guys try way to hard to exploit that sword, and more often than not, your attempts are actually pointless.

Edit: Oh, kek, thread necro, well, either way, for anyone reading later, stop trying to use -2 swords like that, because it doesn't work.

You wouldn't need multiple other weapons, just the one AFAIK. You keep trying to draw that same weapon, and keep getting the cursed sword.

The cursed sword has some advantages, and honestly I thnk people keep trying to use it more to see if you can use a cursed item to your advantage than anything else...

[Doctor Awkward]

This is not entirely accurate in the case of scouts. A scout's uncanny dodge ability prevents her from being caught flat-footed, period.

Scout relies on barbarian to supply the definition of Uncanny Dodge.
That's why it says, "See the barbarian class feature, page 26 of the Player’s Handbook."

Scout cannot change the function of the ability, as it cites the PHB as the primary source, and therefore the contradiction rule applies and the primary source takes precedence. Scout uncanny dodge functions exactly like barbarian uncanny dodge does.

[Aceon]

Scout relies on barbarian to supply the definition of Uncanny Dodge.
That's why it says, "See the barbarian class feature, page 26 of the Player’s Handbook."

Scout cannot change the function of the ability, as it cites the PHB as the primary source, and therefore the contradiction rule applies and the primary source takes precedence. Scout uncanny dodge functions exactly like barbarian uncanny dodge does.
Now this is where I would "up vote" your comment. You are correct Sir!

[Roland St. Jude]

Many of the posters have wrong ideas about Iaijutsu Strikes in Normal Combat. You can most definitely make multiple Iaijutsu strikes in normal combat. You do not have to draw and sheath and re-draw again for each iterative strike. I myself missed this while playing my beloved Iaijutsu Master. I had a question about something related and emailed WOTC Cust Serv. and also Sage Advice (while both of those were still active back in the day!) The reply shocked me because I thought like you all do. For particulars may I refer you to side bar on bottom of p. 82:



So that's it folks. In case you didn't read it the 1st time:


Period. Full stop.

So, you can draw and make all your iterative attacks for the round and so long as your foe remains flat-footed, you may apply IF bonus dice on EACH ATTACK. Of course the Gnome Quick Razor eliminates the question, however, there are instances where the IM PrC refers to "Katana" specifically. Also, so does the Samurai character class. So, me personally, I always stick with the "Katana" aka bastard sword...or Full Blade if you're nasty!Sheriff: Thread necromancy is disfavored here.


I'm willing to overlook the potential necro here, as this is very informative.
Sheriff: That's not really your call to make. :smallannoyed: