Michael7123
2016-05-25, 10:38 AM
In an upcoming campaign I have applied to, I decided to roll up with a Ghoul Bloodline Sorcerer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines-from-paizo/ghoul-sorcerer-bloodline).
Like several other sorcerer bloodline powers, the bloodline's first level feature might seem odd to give to a first level full caster class with 1/2 BAB: the ability to turn your hands into claws and make two standard melee atttacks with them.
Thematic and flavorful? Certainly. But in terms of practical usefulness, I was rather underwhelmed. While the paralyzing feature they grant at hire levels is nice. the saving throw is rather lackluster.
Then I discovered this little bit of information in the pathfinder rules:
Holding the Charge: If you don't discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren't considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack normally doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack. If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.
To summarize things for you: I can cast a touch attack spell one round, then use my two claw attacks in a following round to try and deliver the spell.
This comes with two drawbacks: (1) I have to wait an extra round after casting the spell to deliver it in this way [this can be mitigated by casting the spell in advance, strategic planning, and other factors, so I'm not really worried about taking this into account] and (2) The claws have to hit the Target's normal AC, not their touch AC.
But, what most people will probably forget or overlook is one potential benefit: at level 1, you have the opportunity to make two attacks to hit an enemy with a melee touch spell, instead of the usual one. Sure, attacking Beafy the Fighter wearing fullplate using claws will be a bad idea: his normal AC will be high, and his Touch AC is likely to suck.
But on the other hand, what if I'm trying to hit Sneaky the Ranger wearing leather armor with my claws. His normal AC might only be 2 points higher than his touch AC. While his normal AC is higher, I would get two opportunities to hit it. For those of you familiar with XCOM: Enemy Unknown, I realized that in some ways, this is similar to the Rapid Fire (http://xcom.wikia.com/wiki/Rapid_Fire) ability. Two attacks, each with a lower chance of hitting, but with a higher chance to deal damage overall.
So with all this said, I need some help with something. My math skills aren't great to begin with, and I wouldn't even know where to begin trying to determine when it's better for me to use two claw attacks to deliver a spell, or to use the default touch attack.
So, to anyone willing to give me a hand, here are some things to keep in mind:
1. I'm not interested in trying to determine the fairly small benefit that the claw damage provides, or the paralysis they can inflict at higher levels. To me, these are basically icing on the cake. If they happen, that just makes things even better.
2. Yes, I know making a sorcerer who specializes to go into melee combat is suboptimal at best. While there are some factors at play in this game that mitigate this effect (extra health and a strength score that's fairly high), i know it's still not the best strategy in the world. I am okay with this. Consider this optimizing the sub optimal.
3. At level 9, I get a number of free haste rounds equal to my sorcerer level, which can be used to let me make a third claw attack, also at my highest BAB. How would this change the calculations about attacking against touch AC vs multiple attacks vs normal AC.
4. Does anyone know that for spells like chill touch (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/coreRulebook/spells/chillTouch.html), which let me make multiple melee touch attacks as my level gets higher and higher, can be used in conjunction with my claws. If I were to hit someone twice with my claws in one round, would they take the 1d6 damage twice, or just once per round?
If you have any questions or need me to clarify something, I'd be more than willing to help.
Like several other sorcerer bloodline powers, the bloodline's first level feature might seem odd to give to a first level full caster class with 1/2 BAB: the ability to turn your hands into claws and make two standard melee atttacks with them.
Thematic and flavorful? Certainly. But in terms of practical usefulness, I was rather underwhelmed. While the paralyzing feature they grant at hire levels is nice. the saving throw is rather lackluster.
Then I discovered this little bit of information in the pathfinder rules:
Holding the Charge: If you don't discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren't considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack normally doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack. If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.
To summarize things for you: I can cast a touch attack spell one round, then use my two claw attacks in a following round to try and deliver the spell.
This comes with two drawbacks: (1) I have to wait an extra round after casting the spell to deliver it in this way [this can be mitigated by casting the spell in advance, strategic planning, and other factors, so I'm not really worried about taking this into account] and (2) The claws have to hit the Target's normal AC, not their touch AC.
But, what most people will probably forget or overlook is one potential benefit: at level 1, you have the opportunity to make two attacks to hit an enemy with a melee touch spell, instead of the usual one. Sure, attacking Beafy the Fighter wearing fullplate using claws will be a bad idea: his normal AC will be high, and his Touch AC is likely to suck.
But on the other hand, what if I'm trying to hit Sneaky the Ranger wearing leather armor with my claws. His normal AC might only be 2 points higher than his touch AC. While his normal AC is higher, I would get two opportunities to hit it. For those of you familiar with XCOM: Enemy Unknown, I realized that in some ways, this is similar to the Rapid Fire (http://xcom.wikia.com/wiki/Rapid_Fire) ability. Two attacks, each with a lower chance of hitting, but with a higher chance to deal damage overall.
So with all this said, I need some help with something. My math skills aren't great to begin with, and I wouldn't even know where to begin trying to determine when it's better for me to use two claw attacks to deliver a spell, or to use the default touch attack.
So, to anyone willing to give me a hand, here are some things to keep in mind:
1. I'm not interested in trying to determine the fairly small benefit that the claw damage provides, or the paralysis they can inflict at higher levels. To me, these are basically icing on the cake. If they happen, that just makes things even better.
2. Yes, I know making a sorcerer who specializes to go into melee combat is suboptimal at best. While there are some factors at play in this game that mitigate this effect (extra health and a strength score that's fairly high), i know it's still not the best strategy in the world. I am okay with this. Consider this optimizing the sub optimal.
3. At level 9, I get a number of free haste rounds equal to my sorcerer level, which can be used to let me make a third claw attack, also at my highest BAB. How would this change the calculations about attacking against touch AC vs multiple attacks vs normal AC.
4. Does anyone know that for spells like chill touch (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/coreRulebook/spells/chillTouch.html), which let me make multiple melee touch attacks as my level gets higher and higher, can be used in conjunction with my claws. If I were to hit someone twice with my claws in one round, would they take the 1d6 damage twice, or just once per round?
If you have any questions or need me to clarify something, I'd be more than willing to help.