3.5 Golem Magic Immunity and no SR spells

[Hardestadt]

Hail Giantitp!
So, Every type of golem has the "Immunity to magic" special quality, as well as a handful of additional reactions depending on the spell or spell element that it is hit with. My question is this: If i cast a spell that deals -for example-
fire damage on an iron golem with a spell that does not allow SR, (blast of flame), what will happen? Please give me a detailed answer, my DM's interpretation is quite absolute :smallmad:.

[AlanBruce]

Fire spells vs an iron golem:



A magical attack that deals fire damage breaks any slow effect on the golem and heals 1 point of damage for each 3 points of damage the attack would otherwise deal. If the amount of healing would cause the golem to exceed its full normal hit points, it gains any excess as temporary hit points. For example, an iron golem hit by a fireball gains back 6 hit points if the damage total is 18 points. An iron golem gets no saving throw against fire effects.

It can be argued that the golem need not be slowed to begin with and still gain the healing factor if blast of flame is used on him.

[Hardestadt]

Yes, this is understood by everyone, but what happens when i energy substitute the fire with electricity on the same spell? Does it only get slowed, slowed & damaged or just damaged?

[AlanBruce]

Yes, this is understood by everyone, but what happens when i energy substitute the fire with electricity on the same spell? Does it only get slowed, slowed & damaged or just damaged?

Your blast of flame deals electric damage.

Electricity does not damage the golem, merely slows him.

Given the spell's area, which is rather wide, you could use it to slow several iron golems if they're packed together.

[Zombimode]

Yes, this is understood by everyone, but what happens when i energy substitute the fire with electricity on the same spell? Does it only get slowed, slowed & damaged or just damaged?

Lets review this in pseudo code:

Whenever an Iron Golem is subject to a spell or spell-like effect, the following is executed:

begin
suffered_effects = new effects_vector
if (spell deals electricity damage)
suffered_effects.add(slowed for 3 rounds)
fi
if (spell deals fire damage)
suffered_effects.add(remove slow effects)
suffered_effects.add(prevent fire damage from spell)
suffered_effects.add(heal 1/3 of prevented damage)
fi
if (spell is rust effect)
suffered_effects.add(normal spell effects)
fi
if (spell is SR: no)
suffered_effects.add(normal spell effects)
fi
resolve(suffered_effects)
end

resolve is a resolution function that may require DM input in certain corner cases.

Lets go over your example (energy substituted (electricity) Blast of Flame)

"spell deals electricity damage" is true, so the slow effect is added to the effects vector
"spell deals fire damage" is false (it was substituted), so this block is skipped
"spell is rust effect" is also false and thus skipped
"spell is SR: no" is true, so the electricity damage is added to the effects vector

The resolve function applies the slow effect and the electricity damage (prompting an reflex save form the golem).

In the case of a SR: no spell that deals both electricity and fire damage, the DM has to make a call if the fire damage cancels the slow effect form the electricity or not.



Electricity does not damage the golem, merely slows him.

I don't think this is accurate. It is true that an electricity damage dealing spell that would otherwise not affect the golem (probably due to allowing SR) would not deal damage but slow the golem.
But this is not a replacement effect (there is not "instead" some other language indicating a replacement). It is in addition. If the spell can deal damage (an Orb of Lightning for instance) the golem would suffer both the damage and the slow effect.

Note that this is different from what happens when the golem is subject to a fire damage dealing effect. In this case the healing IS a replacement for the damage (indicated by "heals 1 point of damage for each 3 points of damage the attack would otherwise deal", emphasis mine).

[Hardestadt]

My thanks, it seems the question has been answered.
P.S. the code was a very nice way of explaining this

[Melcar]

Hail Giantitp!
So, Every type of golem has the "Immunity to magic" special quality, as well as a handful of additional reactions depending on the spell or spell element that it is hit with. My question is this: If i cast a spell that deals -for example-
fire damage on an iron golem with a spell that does not allow SR, (blast of flame), what will happen? Please give me a detailed answer, my DM's interpretation is quite absolute :smallmad:.

When the element is from an instantaneous conjuration (creation) spell, then its not magic. A golem or demi lich is not more immune to orb of fire, than to a falling wall of iron.

So and orb of fire would simply do fire damage to the golem. (unless the golem is immune to all types of (including normal fire) fire)

[Necroticplague]

Hail Giantitp!
So, Every type of golem has the "Immunity to magic" special quality, as well as a handful of additional reactions depending on the spell or spell element that it is hit with. My question is this: If i cast a spell that deals -for example-
fire damage on an iron golem with a spell that does not allow SR, (blast of flame), what will happen? Please give me a detailed answer, my DM's interpretation is quite absolute :smallmad:.

It would do damage. The fact it's SR: no means it bypasses their immunity, no questions asked. And the relevant part about fire damage says

A magical attack that deals fire damage breaks any slow effect on the golem and heals 1 point of damage for each 3 points of damage the attack would otherwise deal. If the amount of healing would cause the golem to exceed its full normal hit points, it gains any excess as temporary hit points. For example, an iron golem hit by a fireball gains back 6 hit points if the damage total is 18 points. An iron golem gets no saving throw against fire effects.
Keyword, magical. Meanwhile, Blast of Flame is a very specific type of spell. Let's see whqat the SR has to say about Conjuration (Creation) spells:

A creation spell manipulates matter to create an object or creature in the place the spellcaster designates (subject to the limits noted above). If the spell has a duration other than instantaneous, magic holds the creation together, and when the spell ends, the conjured creature or object vanishes without a trace. If the spell has an instantaneous duration, the created object or creature is merely assembled through magic. It lasts indefinitely and does not depend on magic for its existence.
So the fire it creates is not magical in nature, since Blast of Flame is an instantaneous conjuration (creation). Thus, it doesn't trigger the 'magical attack' clause, and thus deals damage.