Help With Alchemist(Mindchemist)/Inquisitor(Monster Tactician) Build

[OzzyKP]

Ok, I know this may be an odd combination and I should just focus on one, but I'm going into Rappan Athuk and I'm planning to focus on being a master monster identifier (I hear it'll help) and super flexible utility guy.

Starting at 3rd level, no 3PP, no feat taxes, and background skills. Right now I'm 2nd level Mindchemist and 1st level Monster Tactician, but I'm thinking I'll focus more on the Inquisitor side in the future.

My knowledge skills are ridiculous. +19 on Arcana, Dungeoneering, Nature, Planes & Religion. +16 on local, and +13-14 on Engineering, Geography, History and Nobility.

My offense will mostly be through my summons, and I can pick which one to throw out based on who we face, so that helps me be flexible. My hope is that I'll be able to get lots of info on every baddie we face and pull out of my bag some salve, wand or device that will help us defeat it. With the alchemist & inquisitor spell lists I have a lot of wands I can put at my disposal as well.

My feats (at the moment) are Precise Shot & Augmented Summoning (both feat taxes are ignored). Discovery I'm going with a Greensting Scorpian Tumor familiar (though open to other ideas).

I'm curious to know people's recommendations as far as inquisitor domain, spells, extracts, and most especially what alchemical/mundane goodies I should stock up on.

[Geddy2112]

Holy knowledge checks batman.

I agree that it is better to be the inquisitor with the 2nd level alchemist dip than the alchemist with the 2 level inquisitor dip. Summoning is stronger than bomb spam, as you are basically a summoner junior and giving them teamwork feats makes things get ugly.

Your bombs will be near useless at higher levels unless you need to AoE a horde of goblins or a swarm. You also won't want to spend discoveries on them. You could take vivisectionist and get sneak attack instead, allowing you to get some flanking shenanigans. It would synergize well with the precise strike teamwork feat, and probably better than a bomb at higher levels even if you are a ranged and casting build.

Augment summoning is a must, and greensting is a solid familiar choice.

Tanglefoot bags are good at low levels, and fungal stun vials are quite powerful alchemical items. You will have more than enough wands and utility spells and I assume you have some kind of bow or crossbow? What is your race/stats?

[OzzyKP]

I guess I was thinking splash weapons/bombs as my way of attacking, if needed, but otherwise I'd be working on battlefield control, buffing, healing, etc. But I suppose I could pick up a crossbow.

The Mindchemist lets me double up my INT on knowledge checks, so that's a core feature for this build. Does vivsectionist stack?

Right now (subject to change) I'm a tiefling. My build seems rather feat intense so I was thinking maybe human, but I figured the tail would be useful for drawing my sundry items. Plus the energy resistances seem handy and the ability adjustments are great for me.

Stats are pretty nice, I got some adjustments for being middle aged.

STR - 10
DEX - 16
CON - 12
INT - 20
WIS - 17
CHA - 10

[Geddy2112]

Yeah vivisectionist stacks with mindchemist. You can grab a repeating crossbow and your deity's favored weapon or a morningstar if it is crap so you have a melee option just in case. Having the splash weapons is good too, but better to cover all possible scenarios. Tiefling is really solid, and the wis boosting subraces are probably not as good for your build as the stock. I would swap your 18 and 17 so you get 18 wis and 19 int, as wis boosts inquisitior initative, applies to monster Identification, and boosts inquisitor spell dc/spells per day, more important in the long run. You can boost the int to 20 with your ability score increase, or if you don't swap boost wis to 18, so I suppose it won't matter in the long run...

Don't forget to skillmonkey as you will have more than you know what to do with. Hit all the classes and max the big 4 monster ID knowledges.

[Florian]

master monster identifier (I hear it'll help)

Huh?

Rappen Athuk uses the same general rules for identifying monsters as found in the CRB.
Going super high here doesn´t actually do anything special.

[OzzyKP]

Don't you get more bits of info about the monster for every 5 you beat the DC by?

[Florian]

Don't you get more bits of info about the monster for every 5 you beat the DC by?

That´s basically right.

In theory, you´re always surprised by what damage reduction, resistances and immunities a critter has and you´re glad when you did the knowledge roll and now know what actions you did not waste against it.

In practice, you already know that this stuff will happen and you create your character in such a way that it will be able to automatically deal with those issues when they come up.

The issue will only ever come up when trying to figure out how to deal with the regeneration of some critters.

[Firebug]

Deific Obedience(Irori) for +4 Sacred or Profane bonus to all knowledge checks. Requires Knowledge Religion 3 ranks and an hour each day.

[OzzyKP]

Here is my sheet:
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=823396

[Geddy2112]

Looks solid. I would probably drop the wand of shield, its generally not worth the action. Likewise, just take create water and message as cantrips. Drop read magic(you have a 10 in spellcraft) and stabilize is almost never worth it in combat. Out of combat you can take a 10 in heal, even if you have to roll you currently have a +7 so a pretty good chance to stabilize. Or just use a wand of cure light wounds and not only stabilize, but actually bring the party member back to the fight.

Smelling salts are amazing, but 4 vials is overkill, unless you want to give them to each of your party members. A vial has effectively infinite uses. Cut down on your throwable flasks to 5 each, make more as you need. Maybe pick up a crossbow to have a long ranged option should you need it.

Since you want a wand build, maxing UMD is a major priority. I would take a rank from dungeoneering and local to get it to max ranks. You already have insane bonuses to knowledge skills, and those two are situational. UMD needs to be maxed, doubly so since you don't have a charisma bonus. You need a rank in disable device unless somebody else in the party has it, and I always like three ranks in acrobatics in case you need to fight defensively.

[OzzyKP]

Thank you for the great advice! It is very helpful.

I was unsure whether to max UMD since I have alchemist ans inquisitor spell lists, all the wands I have now are on the lists and don't need a UMD check.

[OzzyKP]

Also, I'm new to the whole crafting thing, but it doesn't seem very useful unless I have a ton of downtime. According to this calculator (http://viajon.net/pf/crafting/) if I take 10 on a crafting check it'll take me 2 days for a vial of acid... which seems completely useless.

I figured I'd stock up on enough splash weapons to carry me through a few battles.

[Geddy2112]

Thank you for the great advice! It is very helpful.

I was unsure whether to max UMD since I have alchemist ans inquisitor spell lists, all the wands I have now are on the lists and don't need a UMD check.

You're very welcome! And yes, if you are only using wands from your spell lists no UMD is needed. However, there are a ton of wands and scrolls you might want to pick up and then be able to use that are cross class, requiring a check. It also works for unidentified magic items, all around very useful.


Also, I'm new to the whole crafting thing, but it doesn't seem very useful unless I have a ton of downtime. According to this calculator (http://viajon.net/pf/crafting/) if I take 10 on a crafting check it'll take me 2 days for a vial of acid... which seems completely useless.

I figured I'd stock up on enough splash weapons to carry me through a few battles.

Yes, right now its a bit slow but as you keep maxing it and get an alchemy lab you will eventually start nailing the DC's. it also gives you something to do during downtime. Now if your campaign has little downtime then you do need to carry a few more things off the bat.

[OzzyKP]

I cut stabilize & read magic as my orisons, and added create water, but I don't have message on my inquisitor list (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/spell-lists-and-domains/spell-lists---inquisitor). Any other orison you'd recommend?

I was thinking about adding a crossbow, but I am right at the weight limit for a medium load and I'd rather not pass into heavy load territory and I can't afford muleback cords or a haversack (not without ditching all my wands). Also, with just a 1d6 of damage with no bonuses it just seems like I'd be better of doing something else with my time besides shooting & loading a crossbow for 1d6 dmg.

All of my d&d experience so far has been rather open world sandbox type games and because of the slow pace of pbp I haven't actually had all that much combat. Especially not anything as intensive as a dungeon crawl. And even moreso nothing as intensive as Rappan Athuk. So I am probably a bit unprepared for the kinds of fights I may have ahead of me.

[Geddy2112]

I cut stabilize & read magic as my orisons, and added create water, but I don't have message on my inquisitor list (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/spell-lists-and-domains/spell-lists---inquisitor). Any other orison you'd recommend?
Oh yeah message is arcane, might be worth keeping as a wand then for utility. Detect poison is situational but useful. At this level daze is still kind of useful but you will replace it next inquisitor level. Light is a lot of utility- you can cast it on a rock and drop it down a hole, or on an arrow and shoot it into the darkness kind of thing which comes up a lot in your adventure path.


I was thinking about adding a crossbow, but I am right at the weight limit for a medium load and I'd rather not pass into heavy load territory and I can't afford muleback cords or a haversack (not without ditching all my wands). Also, with just a 1d6 of damage with no bonuses it just seems like I'd be better of doing something else with my time besides shooting & loading a crossbow for 1d6 dmg. A light crossbow does 1d8, and it has more utility for the long range, when throwing is not really viable. Worth considering if you find one and have the room to carry it, or once you have a handy haversack. You can get by without it. A bit less needed in your AP but it may come up.



All of my d&d experience so far has been rather open world sandbox type games and because of the slow pace of pbp I haven't actually had all that much combat. Especially not anything as intensive as a dungeon crawl. And even moreso nothing as intensive as Rappan Athuk. So I am probably a bit unprepared for the kinds of fights I may have ahead of me. If nothing else, you can always spam your throwables or sell them if you end up having extra. It almost makes it worth getting another alchemist level for swift alchemy if you end up needing to craft a lot, but at higher levels few alchemical items are really worth it.If you take vivisectionist, you get a nice 2d6 sneak attack and the ability to use knowledge(nature) as heal at level 3, basically meaning you will auto pass a treat deadly wounds to save on healing potions and spells.

[OzzyKP]

Right now I've got the Precise Shot feat (I don't need point-blank shot) but I'm wondering if I should replace it with a different feat. Is Splash Weapon Mastery a better feat for throwing than Precise Shot?

Or should I deprioritize my throwing and just focus on summoning by picking up Summon Good Monster or Evolved Summoned Monster?

[OzzyKP]

And how does summoning work with alignment. If a monster is lawful good, can I summon it if I am neutral good? Or do I need to match up perfectly? What alignment works best for summoning then?

[Gallowglass]

Right now I've got the Precise Shot feat (I don't need point-blank shot) but I'm wondering if I should replace it with a different feat. Is Splash Weapon Mastery a better feat for throwing than Precise Shot?

Or should I deprioritize my throwing and just focus on summoning by picking up Summon Good Monster or Evolved Summoned Monster?

You don't need precise shot. As a splash weapon thrower you are throwing at touch AC. that -4 to hit isn't going to hamper you too much. What you DO need to pick up is the precise bomb discovery so you an exclude squares that include your allies, otherwise you'll do splash damage to them when you hit the bad guy. I would spend a feat on "extra discovery" to pick that up (if you don't already have it) before I went for precise shot.

[OzzyKP]

Hmm, ok. I guess it doesn't work with other splash weapons though, just bombs. That's a shame.

Another thought, if I want to have some nicer bombs is getting Precise Bomb with a feat, and dropping my tumor familiar and picking up explosive bomb. A bigger splash radius seems super useful, plus it gives more damage through burning, plus it wastes an enemy's turn when they put out the flames.

Or, then again, perhaps I could just focus more on summoning..

Oh, speaking of which, I picked up the demonbane summoner trait which let's all my summons' attacks count as cold iron.

[OzzyKP]

I'm still conflicted.

Option #1, Bomb Focus

I ditch my familiar (loose +2 AC & +4 initiative) and ditch Precise Shot and instead get Explosive Bomb & Precise Bomb.

Pros:
I think those two discoveries would be great for making my bombs useful. I like not just the extra radius & ability to exempt my allies, but I get extra damage & cause an enemy to lose actions too. With my high INT & splash damage it'd be fun if we get attacked by a large number of foes.

Cons:
Since I wasn't planning to take more than 2 or 3 levels of alchemist, investing both a discovery & a feat into bombs might be a waste as I advance in the game. Plus I'd be trading some defense from the familiar and unfortunately these two discoveries don't work with other splash weapons, just bombs.

Option #2, Summon Focus

I ditch Precise Shot and instead get Summon Good Monster.

Pros:
Long-term I'd like summons to be my focus, since I'll be advancing my monster tactician side. So a focus on summoning would stay relevant as I advance.

Cons:
I had envisioned my character as a bit of a jack of all trades, able to contribute in many different ways. Without any combat feat/discoveries and focusing just on summoning I feel like my bombs & splash weapons (and thus all opportunities for direct damage) would be hindered/useless. Also, I worry that my first level summons, even with Augment Summoning & Summon Good Monster are a bit underwhelming and I'd be more toothless until I hit inquisitor 3, which is two levels away.

[Florian]

I still don´t know what you want with the Alchemist part of it. It won´t scale and it doesn´t help your character at all.

Summoning is an awesome force multiplier. The Monster Tactician allows you to expand the list, so there´s absolutely no need for Summon (Alignment) Monster at all. You want Jack of all Trades, you want to get yourself a Visage of the Bound and select your monsters based on the SLAs they provide.

[Geddy2112]

I'm still conflicted.

Option #1, Bomb Focus

I ditch my familiar (loose +2 AC & +4 initiative) and ditch Precise Shot and instead get Explosive Bomb & Precise Bomb.

Pros:
I think those two discoveries would be great for making my bombs useful. I like not just the extra radius & ability to exempt my allies, but I get extra damage & cause an enemy to lose actions too. With my high INT & splash damage it'd be fun if we get attacked by a large number of foes.

Cons:
Since I wasn't planning to take more than 2 or 3 levels of alchemist, investing both a discovery & a feat into bombs might be a waste as I advance in the game. Plus I'd be trading some defense from the familiar and unfortunately these two discoveries don't work with other splash weapons, just bombs.

Option #2, Summon Focus

I ditch Precise Shot and instead get Summon Good Monster.

Pros:
Long-term I'd like summons to be my focus, since I'll be advancing my monster tactician side. So a focus on summoning would stay relevant as I advance.

Cons:
I had envisioned my character as a bit of a jack of all trades, able to contribute in many different ways. Without any combat feat/discoveries and focusing just on summoning I feel like my bombs & splash weapons (and thus all opportunities for direct damage) would be hindered/useless. Also, I worry that my first level summons, even with Augment Summoning & Summon Good Monster are a bit underwhelming and I'd be more toothless until I hit inquisitor 3, which is two levels away.

I vote for option C.
Precise bombs+explosive bombs makes for solid AoE, and if nothing else, you can gang up your summoned friends on a bomb target without the risk of hitting them. Since the rest of your party might also be attacking said thing you wanna bomb, precise is a big deal. Explosive bombs is not as strong as you think at higher levels, due to fire resistance being very common. Even 5 resistance will make most creatures not give a lick about being set on fire, and your splash damage is only 6 fire reflex for half, which again is near useless at high levels. However, your allies probably won't be rolling high in fire resistance nor will most of your summoned creatures have it. So take precise bombs, and eventually get your familiar through an extra discovery feat, but leave explosive bombs behind.

Summon good monster is an okay feat for getting diehard on your summoned friends. However, you already get the celestial template on your summoned buddies that are not already aligned. You don't get anything super cool till at least summon monster 2, so consider it at later levels.

This way, you get the best of all worlds. Precise bombs and a familiar off the bat, and stronger summons when you need it without investing too much in your bombs, but still having them be relevant(although eventually fire resistance becomes really common).

[OzzyKP]

Alright, I'll go with Option C and add precise bombs, thanks for the advice!

As for why I'm going alchemist at all, I wanted to pick up the Mindchemist's bonuses to knowledge checks. I wanted a character that can do a little bit of everything, and then do one thing (knowledge checks!) insanely well.

Plus this character introduced me to the Alchemist character for the first time. I've always avoided it in the past. I really like the whole bomb thing. For a future character I'll have to focus on maxing them out, they seem fun.