Pick up a few more natural weapons...

[Endless Query]

So, I'm working on a natural weapon using Bloodrager (Abyssal bloodline + Rageshaper for 1d6 -> 1d8 -> 2d6 claws even without me doing anything clever) probably going to be lazy and tack Dragon Style on to it like everyone else (... Hard to justify not, really), but at present I've run into a bit of an issue.

See, going the entire game relying on just 2 claw attacks seems... Let's go with "suboptimal." 3 I'd be more okay with because, hey, 3 attacks at full BAB... Quite possibly better than a full set of iterative attacks. At least it's close enough I don't mind. The only trick is, I've found myself in a little bit of a rock-and-hard-place situation.

See, I was going to run Tiefling, because... Well, if nothing else it's terribly thematic, and I was considering taking Claws, just so I'd have them all the time even when out of rage rounds, since I know there's a trait you can snag for a bite... Hoooowever, that bite is at a -5 to hit on full attacks (while still counting as a primary weapon [at least if used only with other natural weapons], so there's that at least, unless there's some oversight in the way Tusked is written, where the -5 to hit thing is just a reminder of how 2ndary natural attacks work... In which case I can probably roll with it, for all that it's still not quite ideal), and is a d4 rather than the D6 with no to hit penalty in full attacks from Maw on Tieflings. Now, I'd, honestly, prefer to take Maw, Bloodrage doesn't give me a bite attack, and so having a pseudo-solid one innately is... Good, yeah going to call that good. My problem is, that leaves me, when not raging, with naught BUT the bite, which, mmnnnooohhhht super thrilled with, not going to lie.

So I've been fishing around to see if there's an easy way to get claws, or, honestly, any other primary natural attack. Especially since, as I'm obviously going to need to be throwing Feral Combat Training on the claws (or if I somehow get some other pair of primary natural attacks, those would also do fine, since 2 hits with the boosted strength bonuses are... Two hits with boosted strength, alls well on the by and large). This leaves me... A bit feat starved and class level pidgeonholed (Starting at level 5, want 4 Bloodrager levels so I get the Enlarge and +Claw damage during rage, and the other level has to be either Master of Many Forms or Unarmed Fighter [not actually sure which is better for this build], so I can snag Dragon Style, Weapon Focus (Nat Weapon of Choice), Feral Combat Training (See previous), and, er, probably Power Attack because I'd be really silly not to) but I'm reallly trying to find an alternate source for Claws (Or a gore... Or a Sting... Or Talons, really) to have to use when not raging (and possibly even while, depending on the answer there). So far I've come up with... Nadda, or at least nothing that doesn't require jumping through at least 2 levels of hoops (Ranger or Slayer can get Aspect of the Beast as a Ranger Style Bonus feat at level 2, which is the best I've found).

Anyone got some clever trick I missed, or a better way to stack up my set of "toys" to get a slightly more efficient end result? (And I know about the Alchemist natural attack build, I don't hate my GM/Party enough to use THAT to suckerpunch combat numbers. Also totally different theme.)

[A_S]

Is this PF only, or is 3.5 material kosher?

[Endless Query]

Ah! A fair question. PF only, no 3rd party, which cuts into some of the other shenanigan options I've seen.

[Florian]

@Endless Query:

Think about the following: Any build based on natural weapons should come out as at least equal in cost benefit ratio as basic TWF is, meaning up to 7 attacks at full BAB and 3 or 5 feats. Keep in mind that Improved Natural Attack and Multiattack are monster feats and must be green-lighted by your gm.

Basing a build on a class feature that is measured in rounds/day will hurt your overall WBL as you need to keep a backup weapons besides the necessary AoMF

If you use a Ragebred Skinwalker as basis, you can get one natural attack for free and spent a feat to gain a second set. This should be Hooves (x2) and Gore as those don´t block other "slots".
Going Bloodrager, Dragon Bloodline with a later dip into Dragon Disciple gains Claws (x2) and Bite.
This is 6 attacks as early as level 6 at the cost of 1 feat so far, then adding power attack and multiattack.

[Endless Query]

I had looked at Skinwalkers, but... Totally missed Extra Features. Huhdoy.

Though, actually, as written, since it seems like Dragon Disciple doesn't scale Bloodrager's bloodlines up (outside of GM fiat), and just specifies whenever you use "your bloodline" to gain claws, so does it really matter if your base Bloodrager bloodline is Draconic or not? Not entirely clear on that one. I suppose if it's fully bloodline not stacking/agnostic it'd toss like 5-6 extra rounds of having claws + Bite per day outside of rage which is a decent auxiliary, though you have to lost at least 4 round of Bloodrage to get it in the first place, so somewhat questionable dividends there.

Though even just the Skinwalker thing has a nice turn around, potentially popping me to 6 attacks (3-4 primary) by level 5 (or 7 if leaving the Bite to Dragon Disciple) while raging (And potentially 4 when not raging, which is nice), though with only 2 2ndary attacks (er, ever, from the look of it) is it worth springing for Multiattack when, with Strength and Power attack being halved, they're doing, well, like half the damage of my other attacks to being with? Or am I reasonably well served freeing up a feat slot and just taking them as bonus damage when they hit and accepting they often won't?

[Florian]

Take a look at the PRD and notice how it is structured differently from, say d20pfsrd or the Archives.
Paizo intentionally keeps the "rules levels" separate and mostly self-contained to keep the individual "rules levels" newcomer-friendly and not overloading the books with information that might actually never be needed, like bloodline-stacking when only the CRB and APG are used.

When looking for answers how things from different "rules levels" interact, it´s always "newer beats older".
So you won´t find any info on bloodline stacking in Sorcerer/CRB (because it´s not possible to do on that level) but on Bloodrager/ACG (because it´s the first instance when that issue could arise).

That means that the handling of bloodlines based on Bloodrager (newer) supersedes the handling on Dragon Disciple (older). Bloodrager tells us that two sources of bloodline must exactly match (both dragon, same color) and then stack when calculating progression and power.

(Amongst other things, the way the different sources handle combining or keeping the "rules levels" separate is the root cause why some people that are generally in the know how rules work come to widely different results)