(3.5) Forgotten realms : What is this Green Dragon gonna do ?

[Puke]

Hello mates,
I come again to seek your advices.

Here is the plot :

1) Arabel was sieged by the Purple Dragon troops (in this campaign, the Cormyr does not exist yet and the Purple Dragon are trying to create a country named Cormyr).
2) The players came to help the city negociate a deal. The city opened its gates, threw away its previous leader, who was a jerk, and accept to join the Cormyr.
3) We ended the last session like this : the Green Dragon of the nearest forest comes to meet the players and the leader of the army. She asks "Will you respect the deal I had with the previous leader of the town ? Its quite simple. You let me 25% of what you extract from the gold mine, and I don't let any other dragon come along." (No need to say it's a polite way to say "Pay, or I spit acids on your fellow civilians and I eat the lumbermen.")

So, the leader of the Purple Dragon army is a Loyal Good warrior (he is not a paladin, tho), follower of the god Kaelan the Protective Knight, Virtuous Paragon and Brave Guard (god of the law, good, protection, strengh, glory, healing).

The leader will seek the best way to achieve its goal : unite all the cities in this region to form a glorious kingdom. But the dragon comes with a proposal. She comes in her human form. She does not seems agressive, and she is not known to be an issue in the region. Nevertheless, it's a green dragon...

What would the good leader do ?

[Necromancy]

Your Cormyr changes are confusing. Also chromatic dragons don't get alternate form

[DrMotives]

There's a feat in Dragons of Eberron that allows any dragon to assume an alternate form. Some people like to file the serial numbers off of campaign-specific content and use it elsewhere.

As for the OP question, the leader would have to make a judgement call about power. The Green dragon is basically making mafia protection money request, the answer to that is almost always "Am I tough enough to go to war over this, or weak enough I should just shut up & pay?" The only other option is to pay now, keep an ear out for mercenaries and or pawns that can take out the green dragon for them.

[Honest Tiefling]

Aren't the Purple Dragons so named because they kicked the scaly butt of a black dragon? Is there any particular reason these guys think they can't take on the new lizard?

[Eladrinblade]

Pay, until his anti-dragon task force is ready to strike (against ALL the evil dragons nearby, not just her).

[Puke]

Your Cormyr changes are confusing. Also chromatic dragons don't get alternate form

It's a DM change. All my players are aware any dragon can assume an humanoïd form from one way or another. (It's a thing in the lore we built together).

Nevertheless, you are right, this is confusing. Here is the plot of the campaign :

- Torill has been destroyed, and then, rebuilt by Ao. Everything is new, and a lot of thing were changed in the process because an evil entity spoiled Ao's plans to make a better world.
(So I might call that... the New Realms instead of The Forgotten Realms). But it stills happen in Toril and the history is running the same way (like a cycle).
- The gods are played by real humans (so we have 2 tables. One for gods, one for mortals. Gods may influence mortals, give em quests etc...)



Aren't the Purple Dragons so named because they kicked the scaly butt of a black dragon? Is there any particular reason these guys think they can't take on the new lizard?




The Purple Dragons are at their very beginning. They may be able to defeat a very powerful black dragon... if they are prepared to face it. And they are not prepared right now.


There's a feat in Dragons of Eberron that allows any dragon to assume an alternate form. Some people like to file the serial numbers off of campaign-specific content and use it elsewhere.

As for the OP question, the leader would have to make a judgement call about power. The Green dragon is basically making mafia protection money request, the answer to that is almost always "Am I tough enough to go to war over this, or weak enough I should just shut up & pay?" The only other option is to pay now, keep an ear out for mercenaries and or pawns that can take out the green dragon for them.

That's exactly what it is : a magia protection money request. As for your contribution, it is what I have in mind too.


The little thing that is making me hesitate is the "good side" of the characters. Are Lawful Good characters always trying to eradicate evil ? I mean, lets assume the leader pays. If the green dragon does not kill anybody, and fulfill his duty, do you think the good leader will still try to figure a way to slay him because he is an evil being ? He might also want to slay him because he does not want to share his gold anymore... but it's not the point i'm discussing.
Another way to ask my question is : are Lawful Good knights always jerks trying to fight evil at all cost (in your opinion) or are they able to think "Ok. I can't defeat the evil being. But the deal is honest. I'm lawful good because I defend my people from the plagues. I'll respect the honest deal and I will not try to slay the dragon because I might waste good soldiers since the dragon is not a problem right now."

Ty for your participation,
you are all, like ever, very kind.

[redzimmer]

It is a fantasy-equivalent of old medieval and Renaissance city-states paying roving barbarians or mercenaries armies to not sack their city.

And I always played LE green dragons akin to familial organized crime cartels.

Why not make the dragon something like an evil corporation? She cares only about filling her belly and building her hoard.
Reward the PCs for thinking of a way to use her natural strengths for the benefit of the nascent kingdom, all the while gaining her non-violent profit and delicious domestic pigs or something to eat.

[Efrate]

The dragon could have just cast polymorph if its old enough. At old they cast as a 9th level sorcerer. As far as what Mr. Purple Dragon Knight does, how much of a threat does it represent? Obviously to the commoners its a big deal, but to the knights? If its no hope to win, then you reluctantly agree. Try to get a clause in the deal that says said dragon will help in repelling other dragons. Depending on how lawful the leader is he may keep the deal even after dragon is no longer a threat.

[Honest Tiefling]

Try to get a clause in the deal that says said dragon will help in repelling other dragons.

Perhaps if you have an equivalent to the Zhentarim or to Sembia, try to get the dragon to get rid of these threats as well. (Or whatever else exists. The idea of the setting is interesting, but a little hard to suggest things as many assumptions no longer hold. Such as the past of the previous Purple Dragons, who got that name for killing a black dragon.)

If your new Zhentarim equivalent uses dragons just like the old batch, then try to wiggle in a clause about killing the allies of foreign dragons as well. This should make it easier to get rid of BOTH factions, or at least within the region.

I have no idea how lawful or good it is to accept this sort of deal with an evil power in the hopes of manipulating them into fighting one another so you can fight them, so that might also be a problem.

[Know(Nothing)]

I can see a lawful good character honoring the deals made on behalf of his people(even if he himself did not make them), but LG characters aren't necessarily dull Dudley Do-Rights. A smart enough character would know that green dragons are lawful(though I suppose this is campaign and DM dependent).

I think the character would perhaps come back with a counter-offer: the dragon will be given 30% of the gold-- but it must not only protect against other dragons, but against invading armies and existential threats as well. Phrase this as while this new country will honor this treaty, one invading it and/or replacing it might not. This would come down to the campaign, the DM, and the characters involved to see if they believe the dragon would honor this pact(also I suppose the dogma of the groups involved), but I can absolutely see a lawful good character making a bargain with a lawful evil character to guarantee the protection of innocents.

It's appealing to the dragon as well-- a new country could last hundreds or thousands of years, and an early deal guarantees the most reward. Long-lived creatures play the long game. If it's a particularly humanoid-hungry dragon, perhaps throw in an offer of condemned murderers and rapists as an occasional snack to sweeten the deal. Though that depends on the characters particular interpretation of law and good.

If the character isn't an idiot, have the deal witnessed, signed, and news spread of the deal. This will hold both parties accountable, and even dragons(especially lawful ones who live a long time) care deeply about reputation.

[Puke]

Thanks again to all of you.

Here are some infos about the setting :

The Green Dragon is Lawful Evil and here are some infos on her :
- She had a deal with the previous city boss, because she did not want to be disturbed near her home and she did not want to get exhausted fighting little mortals while she was growing her hoard and experimenting magic.

Tiamat is back, and she tried to unite chromatic dragons. But this particular green dragon do not give a single **** about what Tiamat wants. She is one of the oldest alive, she has magical knowledge, she is very smart and organized. She does not tolerate intrusions on her territory (the forest to the east of Arabel) but let some minion live here to keep humans away.
She is aware of the rise of Tiamat as a very powerful being, but Tiamat did know about her very late and offered her a deal.

The way I see things are the following : the green dragon appeared to the knights in an human form, smiling, proposing a deal and using good words because she really wants the deal to be signed. She has no interest in a war against humans, and she prefers to know her nest is safe.

She controls hundreds of minions and animals of all kinds but keeps her influence close to her nest and limits her territory to the forest because... she is not greedy. She is not greedy because she does not need to be. She has a deal to gain gold without moving a wing...


About the Zhentarim:

It does not exist yet. Some organisations alike do exist tho, and they serve the god of thieves.

About filling her belly with tasty humans being :

Ahahah ! Good one dudes !
I'll keep that in mind. It may be a good strategy to keep the criminality at a very... very low level.

Does the knights have a chance to win ?

Yes, totally. They may be unprepared to face a green dragon at the moment, they still have siege weapons at their disposal and an army of 250 men. And they are very braves. The dragon did not came unprepared tho. She has magic and knows how tu use it. She can flee if things goes wrong, to gather her slaves and allies and come back stronger.

Is the group involved ?

Yes and No. Their leader, a paladin, decided it was not her to choose. She pulled back and agrees to help the negotiation, but will not have the final word. Plus... one of the player is a sorcerer with bronze dragon wibbly wobbly draky wimey legacy stuff thing... meh the point is : when the green dragon sees that particular character, she can smell her kind and it makes her very angry. The character knows that and quit the meeting short immediately when the green dragon showed up.

All your advices tend to the same thing. I'll follow them then.

If you are interested in, i can let you keep the track of the campaign, and If you want, you'll be able to tell me what you would do when we reach situations where the twist is uncertain.
Let me know !

[thorr-kan]

I think a LG leader might have a problem with honoring the former nasty's deal and with cutting a deal with a green dragon; they're known manipulators and troublemakers.

On the other hand, civic leader. Sometimes your principles eat it for the good of the community. And a front line buffer against draconic interference isn't something to discard lightly in the Realms. It could be political gold, if it's publicly known. "The Boss cut a deal with a *dragon.* As an equal. And the dragon stuck with the deal!"

I can see some soul-searching, some angst, and an honest offer to renegotiate a new deal. "I'm not my predecessor, but I'm not opposed to dealing. Let's dicker."

[Honest Tiefling]

I can see some soul-searching, some angst, and an honest offer to renegotiate a new deal. "I'm not my predecessor, but I'm not opposed to dealing. Let's dicker."

"Dicker? I hardly know 'er!" ...Sorry, I had to. Carry on. Through now the idea of a human trying to seduce the dragon is quite amusing.