t'lan imass in 3.5

[Arwenves]

Hey guys, starting a new campaign that's running 3.5 up to lvl 20 then going into hero 5th ed. I'm thinking of making a t'lan imass from the malazan books of the fallen. In hero it'll be easy but not so much in 3.5 so I wanna run my build by you and see what you think..

Half giant (mostly for powerful build, I will be the only tank)
1. Fighter: power attack, weapon focus greatsword
2. Fighter: cleave
3. Duskblade: knowledge devotion
4. duskblade
5. Duskblade (i get arcane channeling here)
6. Duskblade: practiced spellcaster
7: Duskblade
8. Duskblade
9. Duskblade: craft wonderous item
10. Duskblade
11. Duskblade
At this point I'm and ecl 12 Caster lvl 11 melee fighter using a large greatsword and channeling vampiric touch. Then apply the good lich template (already ok'd it with the gm) and continue to go from there. I'll finish as a 17 Duskblade 2 Fighter and convert over to hero. What do y'all think? Critique? Suggestions? Comments/concerns?

[Arwenves]

Also starting at lvl 1 just fyi

[Twurps]

I don't know the character you're trying to build, so can't help you much. but...
Have you considered going Goliath (RoS) instead of half giant? they have powerful build as well, also +1, but better stat-boosts.
There main trick comes with a level of barbarian, and the ACF that makes you large while raging, but even without that it might be worth it.

[Arwenves]

I hadn't. Not a bad idea, ty! And it seems that everyone I know who has read the books doesn't play and everyone I know that plays hasn't read the books and that's stupid because they're an amazing high fantasy series in a unique and incredible world.

[Rangô]

Hey there!
Are you goint to play from first level?, what is your role in the party?.
In my opinion, you don't need that 2 fighter's levels. Do you do it cause of more feats? but you invest one to mantain the caster level loosing highers spell level known, losing will saving. Power attack at first level, then cleave... well, could be a nice combo but you will do it better giving a tripper orientation with a reach weapon, I guess.
Dragonborn template can be a great option instead of half-giant, getting 3 usefulways for Duskblades, wings for power attack + leap attack or breath weapon.

[Arwenves]

Hey there!
Are you goint to play from first level?, what is your role in the party?.
In my opinion, you don't need that 2 fighter's levels. Do you do it cause of more feats? but you invest one to mantain the caster level loosing highers spell level known, losing will saving. Power attack at first level, then cleave... well, could be a nice combo but you will do it better giving a tripper orientation with a reach weapon, I guess.
Dragonborn template can be a great option instead of half-giant, getting 3 usefulways for Duskblades, wings for power attack + leap attack or breath weapon.

Hey, I will be the tank, yes we're starting at level one and while I generally agree that trip builds will forever be better than characters swinging big swords. Its part of what/who a t'lan imass is.

[ExLibrisMortis]

I would avoid the fighter levels, instead taking a level in warblade (at 9th), if you really want some melee power. However, straight duskblade is already good.

Half-giant can be better than goliath, as there are some options that may be worth the loss of +2 strength, depending on what kind of character you're looking for. Psionic options include Psionic Weapon and Deep Impact (good with Sapphire/Ruby/Diamond Nightmare Blade, a series of warblade abilities) and Speed of Thought. If you're going the Deep Impact route, you may prefer to go with warblade 1/duskblade 5/jade phoenix mage 10, and ask your DM to allow Diamond Mind maneuvers instead of Desert Wind (possibly replace the fire theme with another theme).

Primordial Giant is a template from Secrets of Xen'drik, and it gives you a lot of extra intelligence and charisma (affects Concentration for undead), at a cost of a lot of strength. That is in itself not very worthwhile, but primordial giants also get invisibility at will. Primordial giants also get +1 caster level with all SLAs, which won't be too useful (it only affects your Arcane Attunement).

Another good option is to be a divine caster. Cleric/Ordained Champion is very good, can channel spells, and you can add one level in prestige paladin as well (alignment variant, probably).

[Rangô]

If you're going to be the tank, perhaps you can invest in shields, it's under optimized in feats cost but you will need AC and there are some feats sinergized with it; even you could deliver spells through it hitting with it if you lose your weapon.
I would not pay attention to dish out damage with power attack and two handed weaponry, you'll have a lot of spells that really hurt and as fast as you can you should be able to cast it so I really recomend you to go duskblade straight.

[dysprosium]

Disclaimer: I have not read the series that the OP has mentioned. I hadn't even heard of it before I saw this thread but I became curious about it and used my google-fu to give this reply.

Now that's out of the way . . .

Everything I have read about the t'lan imass leads me to believe that they would be best represented with neanderthals (out of Frostburn) as the base race with necropolitan (out of Libris Mortis) to represent the Ritual of Tellann. Per Frostburn, neanderthals count as human in regards to race so if powerful build was something desired the Jotunbrud feat (out of Races of Faerun) is powerful build-lite.

Also according to what I read, Bonecasters, the t'lan imass who were the spellcasters, were known to not have or use weaponry. To me (again as a non-reader of the series), a weapon wielding Bonecaster seems out of place.

Two suggestions for this:
1: You expressed a desire to be the "tank" for your group. The best class in 3.5 for this role is the Crusader (out of Tome of Battle). There are plenty of stances and maneuvers that both protect your allies, keep enemies focused on you, and can dish out decent damage. Use a two handed reach weapon to get the most effectiveness. So neanderthal necropolitan Crusader X could be your answer.
2: You also have expressed a desire to play as a spellcaster. In my opinion the best representative for this could be either the Shaman (out of Oriental Adventures [3.5 update in Dragon Magazine 318]) or the Spirit Shaman (out of Complete Divine). Both cast divine spells but each have their own tribal flavor. So neanderthal necropolitan (Spirit) Shaman X could be your answer.

If you still want to do both, combine both Crusader and Shaman and go into a (refluffed) Ruby Knight Vindicator (also out of Tome of Battle). It would have to be Shaman from OA as it is the one with turn undead as a class feature built in. By going Spirit Shaman, you would have to invest feats and/or other class levels to get turn undead. Shaman 4/Crusader 1/RKV 10 would be an effective character.

Also since you are playing from Level 1, it should be said that going this route locks in your first level feat at Jotunbrud, as it is a Level 1 only feat. You also would have to wait until at least Level 3 before being able to go through the ritual to make you a necropolitan based upon WBL.

So it should also go without saying that your DM would have to be on board with all of this refluffing. Also I am taking the liberty that you have all 3.5 resources available to you.

[Arwenves]

Disclaimer: I have not read the series that the OP has mentioned. I hadn't even heard of it before I saw this thread but I became curious about it and used my google-fu to give this reply.

Now that's out of the way . . .

Everything I have read about the t'lan imass leads me to believe that they would be best represented with neanderthals (out of Frostburn) as the base race with necropolitan (out of Libris Mortis) to represent the Ritual of Tellann. Per Frostburn, neanderthals count as human in regards to race so if powerful build was something desired the Jotunbrud feat (out of Races of Faerun) is powerful build-lite.

Also according to what I read, Bonecasters, the t'lan imass who were the spellcasters, were known to not have or use weaponry. To me (again as a non-reader of the series), a weapon wielding Bonecaster seems out of place.

Two suggestions for this:
1: You expressed a desire to be the "tank" for your group. The best class in 3.5 for this role is the Crusader (out of Tome of Battle). There are plenty of stances and maneuvers that both protect your allies, keep enemies focused on you, and can dish out decent damage. Use a two handed reach weapon to get the most effectiveness. So neanderthal necropolitan Crusader X could be your answer.
2: You also have expressed a desire to play as a spellcaster. In my opinion the best representative for this could be either the Shaman (out of Oriental Adventures [3.5 update in Dragon Magazine 318]) or the Spirit Shaman (out of Complete Divine). Both cast divine spells but each have their own tribal flavor. So neanderthal necropolitan (Spirit) Shaman X could be your answer.

If you still want to do both, combine both Crusader and Shaman and go into a (refluffed) Ruby Knight Vindicator (also out of Tome of Battle). It would have to be Shaman from OA as it is the one with turn undead as a class feature built in. By going Spirit Shaman, you would have to invest feats and/or other class levels to get turn undead. Shaman 4/Crusader 1/RKV 10 would be an effective character.

Also since you are playing from Level 1, it should be said that going this route locks in your first level feat at Jotunbrud, as it is a Level 1 only feat. You also would have to wait until at least Level 3 before being able to go through the ritual to make you a necropolitan based upon WBL.

So it should also go without saying that your DM would have to be on board with all of this refluffing. Also I am taking the liberty that you have all 3.5 resources available to you.

Wow! THAT is a response! Haha from the books the more legendary warriors are tied to their racial magic. Which is what I'm going for but Neanderthal sounds perfect! I'll check it out. Thank you very much!

[Arwenves]

Jotunbrod drops the ability to use size class large weapons and that's why I wanted powerful build. I'm sorry I should've been more specific. The t'lan imass carry "huge" weapons. + an extra d6 doesn't hurt :-)

[dysprosium]

Yes, sadly that is the reason why Jotunbrud is powerful build lite. There is an alternative. Strongarm bracers are a magic item in the Magic Item Compendium (iirc) that gives the ability to use larger weapons.

Also, in the early levels, the spell enlarge person could be used for the neanderthal as they are humanoids, but not for half giants (as they are the giant type) or goliaths (as they are the monstrous humanoid type). Though that goes away once you become a necropolitan (as you become the undead type).

Crusader maneuvers can also make up for the "lost" die of damage with their strikes.

Also if channeling was something that you still wanted to do you could take my previous combo idea and add in the Ordained Champion class that ExLibrisMortis mentioned above.

[Kurald Galain]

Although it's unlikely to come up, having favored enemy (Jaghut) is fitting.

More noteworthy is that in the earlier books, T'lan Imass have an anti-magic aura.

[Deadkitten]

There needs to be some way you can represent turning into dust and travelling in my opinion. That was one of the big ways they were able to take on the jaghut. When they raised glaciers, the imas just travelled over them.

[Arwenves]

That's the plan once we hit hero. There I can build a perfect imass. But for a 3.5 build what do y'all think?

[Arwenves]

Just realized.I should probably have some dr. Any suggestions on how to do that?

[ExLibrisMortis]

Just realized.I should probably have some dr. Any suggestions on how to do that?
Liches have DR 15/bludgeoning and magic, that should be plenty.

[mabriss lethe]

Although it's unlikely to come up, having favored enemy (Jaghut) is fitting.

More noteworthy is that in the earlier books, T'lan Imass have an anti-magic aura.

The only thing I know of, off the top of my head, that would sort of replicate their antimagic aura is that god-awful bad aura that Divine Minds can get that can impede spellcasting.


EDIT to add: If you want a low-rent version of lichdom that might better represent the ritual of tellan, why not use the Curst template from Lost Empires of Faerun. For +3 LA You gain , +2 str,12+HD SR, immunity to any form of turning or control, fast healing, +3 natural armor, a slam attack, immunity to cold and fire, and you become nearly unkillable due to an ability of the same name. (only the complete destruction of the body, or to remove the curse that keeps it "alive" via Remove Curse can actually kill you, otherwise you just slowly regenerate and come back together. And a spell blade or two can render that little problem moot)

Downside: take heavy mental penalties Int -4 (minimum 3), Wis -6 (minimum 1), Cha -2 (minimum 1) and if your wisdom drops to 2 or lower you suffer from a sort of madness that causes you to behave erratically. (5% chance to simply do nothing each round during combat)

[Arwenves]

I like the curst. Template so I reworked it a bit.
Half giant.
1. Fighter, w/f greatsword, improved initiative.
2. Fighter, power attack
3. Fighter, Improved sunder
4. Fighter, Improved bull rush
5. Fighter
6. Fighter, shock tropper, combat brute (curst template)
7. Fighter from here on. No idea on feats. Any suggestions?

[mabriss lethe]

I like the curst. Template so I reworked it a bit.
Half giant.
1. Fighter, w/f greatsword, improved initiative.
2. Fighter, power attack
3. Fighter, Improved sunder
4. Fighter, Improved bull rush
5. Fighter
6. Fighter, shock tropper, combat brute (curst template)
7. Fighter from here on. No idea on feats. Any suggestions?



If you're already planning to put a big commitment into fighter, consider adding the Dungeoncrasher ACF and the Zhentarim fighter substitution levels. You'd lose out on your 2nd and 6th fighter feats with dungeoncrasher, but the benefits are well worth it. Zhentarim fighter doesn't cost you anything and gives you the foundation for some nice intimidation tactics. It would delay things a bit, but you'd have a more robust chassis.

[Arwenves]

Actually the best question I have is what level should I take the curst template? With needing to hit 'll 6 for shock trooper and combat brute is it more effective to get those then take the template or take the template and wait on the feats?