Scarred Witch Doctor

[Asus]

About to play a Half-orc Scarred Witch Doctor, keying off Con.
Can someone explain what their favored classes do for me?

Orc: Add one spell from the witch spell list to the witch's familiar. This spell must be at least one level below the highest spell level she can cast. If the witch ever replaces her familiar, the new familiar knows these bonus spells.
Half-Orc: Add +1 skill rank to the witch's familiar. If the half-orc ever replaces her familiar, the new familiar gains these bonus skill ranks.

The witch doctor's familiar is his mask, right. So how would the boost in skills or spells work?

[Spore]

The witch doctor's familiar is his mask, right. So how would the boost in skills or spells work?

Boost in skills would be wasted. Boost in spells would work as intended.


About to play a Half-orc Scarred Witch Doctor, keying off Con.

The errata version of the class keys off intelligence (+2) so make sure you check this with your DM beforehand. Imho the Con version also makes more sense.

[Florian]

The witch doctor's familiar is his mask, right. So how would the boost in skills or spells work?

FCB bonus is always geared towards a non-archetypes class, so not every bonus actually has to make sense with any combination.

[Psyren]

FCB bonus is always geared towards a non-archetypes class, so not every bonus actually has to make sense with any combination.

To add to this, there is also the basic FCB all races and classes can choose - namely, a bonus skill point or hit point every level. So if you have a combination with no viable or applicable FCBS, there is always that one.

[Asus]

A witch must commune with her familiar each day to prepare her spells. Familiars store all of the spells that a witch knows, and a witch cannot prepare a spell that is not stored by her familiar. A witch's familiar begins play storing all of the 0-level witch spells plus three 1st level spells of the witch's choice. The witch also selects a number of additional 1st-level spells equal to her Intelligence modifier to store in her familiar. At each new witch level, she adds two new spells of any spell level or levels that she can cast (based on her new witch level) to her familiar. A witch can also add additional spells to her familiar through a special ritual.

So in short the Familiar operates as the Witches spell book, the Orc feature would simply add an additional spell to this pool.


Skills: For each skill in which either the master or the familiar has ranks, use either the normal skill ranks for an animal of that type or the master's skill ranks, whichever is better. In either case, the familiar uses its own ability modifiers. Regardless of a familiar's total skill modifiers, some skills may remain beyond the familiar's ability to use. Familiars treat Acrobatics, Climb, Fly, Perception, Stealth, and Swim as class skills.

In this case the mask would operate the same way that any other would, i.e a flying squirrel grants the normal passive of "Master gains a +3 bonus on Fly checks", but in the case of the Scarred Witch you would gain "+2 Cir to Heal & Intimidate; +2 vs pain / pain descriptor"

Would the Mask also gain the Familiar Special abilities, stuff like the Natural Armor boost and special effects like Alertness? The Witch's familiar page also notes that Vermin familiar are granted an intelligence score and removes the mindless trait. Would this also infer that the mask would hold a Intelligence score of its own? Would it operate as an Intelligent Item? Or perhaps similar to the Item Familiar magic: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm

I'm thinking along the lines of Aku Aku or Uka Uka, as a voodoo mask.

[Florian]

@Asus:

Specific trumps general.

In this case, the archetype tells you that instead of a familiar, you gain a bonded object that functions like your familiar in regard to being a spell book. Nothing else. No other familiar functions.

[Asus]

The mask replaces a Witch’s Familiar, unless stated otherwise. The Witch’s Familiar in turn operates under the same rules as a Wizard’s arcane bond class feature, except if noted otherwise. I could see no note in the Witch’s Familiar section that would suggest otherwise to me, but the whole topic seems rather questionable.
But in short the Wizard’s arcane rules allow you to bound with an object or a creature. In this case the Witch has a rather unique Familiar in that it is inanimate (?) as such I’m assuming I’d simply treat it as a bonded item?

An alternative that I’ve seen noted is that the Mask simply advances through the Familari special abilities obtaining everything that could apply to an object, so granting the wieldier alertness, but lacking improved evasion or the ability to deliver touch spells. I mean surely this mask has some purpose, else isn’t it just a more exposed spell book? A previous thread even suggested using the Psicrystal rules: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/equipment/psicrystals

At the very least would I be able to select the material the mask was made from, so that it could be harder to sunder etc?

Without the CON stat, this class looks extremely sub-par, is there even any reason to play it over the other archetypes?

[Florian]

Ok:

Step One: Witch loses Familiar class feature (except it functioning as spell book)
Step Two: Witch gains Wizard Bond class feature but must chose Bonded Object (Mask)
Step Three: Apply retained spell book feature from Step One.
Finish.

Edit: The hidden benefit is the floating +2 H-Orc stat bonus stacking with the virtual +2 to Int. That means a starting Int of 22 would be possible, which is quite powerful on a main casting class.

[Asus]

Do any of the other archetypes combo well with SWD?
The site lists the following:

Bouda
Cartomancer
Dark Sister
Dimensional Occultist
Hedge Witch
Hex Channeler
Medium
Mountain Witch
Synergist
Veneficus Witch

A few of these have familiar interactions, but from what I can see they all seem total garbage with the exception of maybe Hedge Witch.
Thoughts?

[Psyren]

The site lists the following:


You'll have to read through those more closely because the archetype tables on the PFSRD stopped getting updated. Bouda for instance replaces the familiar and so it is actually incompatible with Scarred Witch Doctor.

There's an archetype combos guide here on GitP (see my sig) that's a little more up to date, but IIRC it's still not fully current.

[Asus]

I'm aware that a few don't actually stack and that the table simply hasn't been updated.
Cartomancer also wouldn't work. What I'm asking is whether any of the archetypes are worth taking, as imo they are garbage

[Psyren]

Too lazy to read through them all but none leaped out at me.

[Asus]

Most of them just seem to weaken the witch class, offering subpar domains. Another lets you merge with your familiar granting benefits based off its animal type, this is presumably worthless with SWD.

[Spore]

What do you want to do with your witch? What are the other characters? What is your job, what is your campaign about?

Even if you focus on debuffing with the usual Cackle + Evil Eye Hexes, your witch has enough potential to cover more jobs:
- healing
- buffing
- blasting
- BFC
- utility casting
- summoning

There is so much potential but you should focus at least a little bit.

[avr]

Dimensional occultist would be nice at high levels; planar binding is as potentially broken in PF as in 3.5. At low levels combining w/SWD meaning you get your first hex at level 4 would be unliveable IMO.

A lot of witch archetypes seem to be written for NPCs though.

[Florian]

Dimensional occultist would be nice at high levels; planar binding is as potentially broken in PF as in 3.5. At low levels combining w/SWD meaning you get your first hex at level 4 would be unliveable IMO.

Unconvinced, too. Yes, a DO gains Binding spells, but outside of a dedicated Summoning-based build, it doesn´t get the sheer mileage out of bindings that other class builds can get.

The loss in low to mid level control abilities thru Hexes is simply too great to offset that.

(If you really want broken, then look at builds that can shift HD limits.)

[Asus]

Unconvinced, too. Yes, a DO gains Binding spells, but outside of a dedicated Summoning-based build, it doesn´t get the sheer mileage out of bindings that other class builds can get.

The loss in low to mid level control abilities thru Hexes is simply too great to offset that.

(If you really want broken, then look at builds that can shift HD limits.)

I more or less share the same view, the other archetypes just look so subpar.

[Psyren]

I more or less share the same view, the other archetypes just look so subpar.

Yeah, as avr stated most witch archetypes appear aimed at NPCs. If you don't like what's available, your options are to use none, homebrew, or play something else.

[Florian]

I more or less share the same view, the other archetypes just look so subpar.

Then why do you actually want an archetype?

[Asus]

To clarify, my character is a SWD, I just wanted to know if any of the other archetypes synergies with SWD. From the list, the website provides I can only see one of value, Dark Sister.
I'm simply looking to see if you share my views, or if I'm missing something.


Bouda – Replaces familiar.
Cartomancer - Don’t think this would even work.
Dark Sister*
Dimensional Occultist – noted above only gives situational benefits for several hexes.
Hedge Witch – Gains spontaneous healing. I don’t actually intend to take the healing patron however, so I’d imagine it does very little for me. Costs two hexes. And I already gain a heal skill buff from SWD
Hex Channeler – Total garbage IMO, requires charisma, and drops a hex at least.
Medium - costs 3 hexes, and a patron, seems situationally good, heavily geared towards an undead game.
Mountain Witch - Just seems like a bad spell list compared to the others. Again introduces charisma based abilities.
Synergist – Seems to be geared around the idea that your familiar can attack.
Veneficus Witch – Trades two hexes for the use of poison. Probably requires a very specialist build in order to out scale the use of your 2nd & 10th level hexes.

[Psyren]

To clarify, my character is a SWD, I just wanted to know if any of the other archetypes synergies with SWD. From the list, the website provides I can only see one of value, Dark Sister.
I'm simply looking to see if you share my views, or if I'm missing something.


Bouda – Replaces familiar.
Cartomancer - Don’t think this would even work.
Dark Sister*
Dimensional Occultist – noted above only gives situational benefits for several hexes.
Hedge Witch – Gains spontaneous healing. I don’t actually intend to take the healing patron however, so I’d imagine it does very little for me. Costs two hexes. And I already gain a heal skill buff from SWD
Hex Channeler – Total garbage IMO, requires charisma, and drops a hex at least.
Medium - costs 3 hexes, and a patron, seems situationally good, heavily geared towards an undead game.
Mountain Witch - Just seems like a bad spell list compared to the others. Again introduces charisma based abilities.
Synergist – Seems to be geared around the idea that your familiar can attack.
Veneficus Witch – Trades two hexes for the use of poison. Probably requires a very specialist build in order to out scale the use of your 2nd & 10th level hexes.


It looks like you've gone through them and have your answer, save for Dark Sister - which is weak too imo. You could combine it with SWD to get a powerful fear spell, but that's about it; Sunder Hope meanwhile is very limited, and the Hag Crony is already behind the curve when you get it, on top of not scaling any further.